The first reference to "Jesus" that I know of is 'A History of the Jews' by Josephus in 90 CE, both of which are later interpolations by copyists, and the next reference isn't until around 130 CE, in the gospels. I'd be overjoyed if you could find me a contemporary work referencing Jesus of Nazareth. Something up to say the year 50. I mean, after all, a guy that's walking around raising the dead and feeding the masses, preaching some very controversial stuff, someone must've written something on him, right? So please, I beg, give me the names of the texts you can find him in, in period, and outside of the NT.

-- Spikey Mikey (SpikeyM@hotmail.com), March 24, 2004

Answers

Lookie Lookie, a troll.

Sorry, the Historical Jesus Debate realy isnt that hot in Contemporary circles of Historians.

I mean relaly, if Jesus where a Myth, as the Minority of dessenters contend, then how is it that this figure managed to ganvinise a Movement so fast, with a follwo so devout?

You see, even Such figures as appolo and Dyonisos took centuries to build a fllowing, whereas Jesus took hold emideately.

In Living Memory, you had Jews in Jerusalem converting to Chrisyainity, based on this "Myth". These wpeopel where living in Jerusalem, and many peopel alive durign the life of Jesus where still alive. Someone woudl hav mentioned him not existing or the events not havign happened.

Indeed, in the 1700 years of the Christain faith, the no one attacked the Historacity of Christ. It took some guys in France int he 1700's to do that.

why is it that the earliest Critics of Chrisytainity, whom had the power to execute Christains, outlawed the faith, an did everyhtin they coudl to eliminate al its adherance, never once made the claim thatJesus never existed?

Also, as to Josephus, you claim rather mater of faclty that these refeences are Interpolutions, and I use to beleive that too, till I did soem research.

even though some scholars think the whole reference was interpolution, you must realise that the vast majority think that the passages wshere only slightly altered over time, rathern htan beign wholly invented.

Early Church Fathers, such as Origan and Erasmus both claim that Josephus write of Jesus. We have peopel sayign thing slike " Thouhg he was not a beleiver, bhe bore witness to our Lord."

Also, you ask for soemthign earlier, well, how do you know somehtign earlier wasnt written? You seem tothink all records exist, or at leats most do. In reality, almost NOTHING has survived History.

we have no records of the Roman empure, only a few accounts and books. Small trace sampels of History. Works such as Josephs, and Julius Caesers Gaulic Wars, survuved, but the overwheming reality is that most writtings did noit exist.

Add tot his the relative disinterest in Jesus, an Itenerate Rabbi in a conquered rac ein a Backwater provence of the empire. He wasnt big news bakc home n rome I am afraixd, and just because his fllowers made a fuss over him, and of course his rivals in the Heirarchy of Jewish Pfreists, this does not mean that he was all that important int he eyes of the domenent government.

Your whole premise is faulty, and useless.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 24, 2004.

Of course there are all sorts of references to him in the earliest of Christian writings. Many of these are writen contemporaniously with the NT. The letter of Clement to the Corinthians (AD 80) is a good example. Other early works include The Shepard of Hermas, and the letter of Barnabas, and the Didache. Add to these Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch and you have tons of refernces to Jesus.

All of these, however, are likely going to be discarded by anyone who would discard the NT. Afterall, they are written by people who believed.

In the end, the expectation that the ancient world produced writings like modern journalism does is just plain silly.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 24, 2004.

Silly, but the Christ Mythers will nonetless stand by it. After all, people TODAY write about hngs htey dtn beleive in, theirfore it MUST have been true of peopel then. Like the romans, or Jews, wudl relaly wan tot write about Jesus.

It's like the "Jesus was a racist" People. He was rude tthe Caananite woman ... by todays standards. And Jesus was also living in the Anceitn Near East, not Modern upstate New York...Rukes of cinduct change wiht culture.

Oh well, at leats he didnt bring up "The other Virgin Born Saviours", ala Achayra S. and her lot. The Virgin Births are never actually virgianal, the saviours are never sinless, and never die for the sin of mankind. ( Indeed, some embarrassingly never even die...)

Just another troll who wants ot cause toruble by presentign nonsence.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 24, 2004.

>The Shepard of Hermas, and the letter of Barnabas, and the Didache. >Add to these Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch.....

are these works that someone can find in a public library? is there an internet site where someone can read from these writers?

thanks

-- jas (numbskull@hotmail.com), March 25, 2004.

Juts type theoir names into a searhc engine, their public domain and free online. A good place to go is The Internet Sacred Texts Archive.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 25, 2004.