Solutions to the Priestly Shortage

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I would like to review a wide range of potential solutions to the shortage of priests.

Please do not be angered by the questions I will ask, as this is an academic venture.

Do we have a shortage of ordained clergy?

Is the reduction in the number of priests per catholic an avenue for increased participation by the laity?

All functions of a priest could be handled by the latiy, except for the hearing of confessions and the consecration of the Eucharist. How does this factor in? Please keep in mind that Annointing of the Sick (without the hearing of a confession)has been proposed as a sacramental function of the diaconate.

Please think out of the box. Please assume that any solution could receive approval and Canon Law could be revised.

I'm very interested in any innovative solutions. I may write a paper on this. Thanks,

God bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), March 23, 2004

Answers

>Do we have a shortage of ordained clergy?

yep

>Is the reduction in the number of priests per catholic an avenue for increased participation by the laity?

sure

>All functions of a priest could be handled by the latiy, except for >the hearing of confessions and the consecration of the Eucharist. >How does this factor in? Please keep in mind that Annointing of the >Sick (without the hearing of a confession)has been proposed as a >sacramental function of the diaconate.

Let’s first get the laity to do the huge amount of work they should be doing now without finding more work for them to do that they won’t do.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 23, 2004.


Is there a priests shortage? This depends on how you define a "shortage." The number of priests per capita in the U.S. remains much higher than the ratio in Latin America, Asia, and Africa at any time in the 20th century. It has always been higher than the ratio in Europe and although it is lower than the European rate in the early 20th century it is still much above Europe. Your paper will need to present the actual statistics on this -- so you will have to get them. Also, the question needs to be asked "where"? Some dioceses (e.g. Lincoln) have more priests (young ones) than they need. Some (e.g. Seattle) seldom ordain even one a year.

Is the drop in the number of priests a "avenue for increased participation by the laity"? Participation in what? Do you mean an opportunity to have lay people perform functions that are properly clerical? e.g. distribution of communion or taking it to the sick? Yes, that is obvious -- I notice this practice even in parishes like the one I live in where there are 5 (yes, five) clerics in residence. Is that a good thing? Does it mean that lay people perform "non-clerical" functions more? Not to my knowledge. Lay people do traditional priestly functions; priests spend their time on material concerns like fund-raising and bureaucratic business. Is that good? You will have to think out what you mean before you write your paper.

Does the fact that lay people "can do" some "priestly" ritual functions "factor in." I don't understand the question. Priests participate in and represent all three of Christ's roles as priest, prophet, and king. They are not merely sacrament machines but ordained leaders of the people of God. It is a good thing that non-ordained take over the roles of the ordained (esp. while clergy spend most of their time on things that are not a priestly function at all -- e.g. fund raising)? You will need to clarify your theology of orders before you write your paper.

By the way, I have been an ordained priest for 16 years, a member of a religious order for 25 years, and have lived in 4 parishes. I am currently a univeristy professor.

-- C. A. Thomas (thomas@oregon.edu), March 23, 2004.


The only solution to a shortage of preists is more preists! So many of the 'solutions' focus on making the shortage not a shortage. Giving preistly functions to the laity is a great example of this. It is not a solution. I think the laity need to get off their duffs and start doing their parts, but as Bill said, lets not give them extra stuff when they are not doing the stuff they should be now.

So how do we get more preists? I have three thoughts. They are simple. Radical devotion to Jesus Christ. If the preists we have and the laity light themselves on fire for Christ we we have all the preists we need. Radical devotion to celibacy, will end the nonsense of 'catholics' calling for a married clergy (which is part of the cause of the shortage). Radical devotion to the Eucharist. Radical devotion to the sexual ethic of the Church. Radical devotion to confession.

The second idea is one that only the laity can preform. USE the preists we have. It is like a muscle. The muscle that gets used grows, the muscle that doesn't get used atrophies. Like any excersize it will hurt.

Three, we need to start loving the preisthood again. This means that preists need to stop complaining about being preists. You might counter that the vast majority of preists DO love their calling. Well, let us know! It is the anti-clerical clerics who are loud. Happy preists are quiet. We need you to speak up, please. The laity also needs to start loving the preisthodd again. So many Catholics want more preists, but not their son. I was in formation for four years (not that much really). Set aside discernment, and all those important things for a second; if I had to pick one reason why I am not a preist today it is that I had NO SUPPORT. Our Cahtolic culture just doesn't nurture vocations anymore. Even those who were glad that I was pursuing a vocation, at the same time were astonished by it.

Just my bloated opinion

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 23, 2004.


Hi John, nice to see you back!

Can a lay person actually say Mass? When we have had no priest due to unforeseen circumstances in scheduling, we have always had something called a Eucharistic Service instead, where you sing, have readings, distribute the Eucharist, but no consecration takes place.

I have already seen where a parish was set up initially with a nun as essentially the "pastor", and they had priests come in from out of the area to say Mass and I assume to also hear confessions--I do not know if this was meant to be a permanent or temporary solution. I don't recall what her exact title was--might have been "parish administrator" or "pastoral associate", but then again I have also seen those titles used for lay people when there is actually a priest as pastor.

To me, if you start giving more and more responsibilities to the laity, I think you will eventually have more problems along the lines of "Why do we need to go to Mass? Why not just say Mass at home?" "Why do we even need priests if lay people can do it all?", etc. It is already bad enough that in many places you can't make an appointment and talk to a priest--everyone is all too eager to have you talk to someone else instead. This has been especially true of things like Pre-Cana. You can't have a private Baptism any longer in most places, either, and in some parishes they have a separate Baptism service led by a deacon and everyone goes up one after another, 1 minute for pictures, let the next one up.

At many parishes, the big reason to push to build a large church is because they want to cut the number of Masses said--which seems to me to be a big waste of money because then the church building is left empty most of the time.

Married priests are one solution, but it could be an expensive one if the Church has to provide housing and benefits for wives and children.

Ordaining women might also be another solution (John, you said we could think outside the box ;-).

Or, the Church might be able to import more priests from other countries--don't know the costs of that, but you do hear the occasional complaint at Mass that someone is very difficult to understand, so better immersion in the new country's language before assigning the new priest might be in order here.

Maybe another solution is to pull more priests from office/teaching positions and put them back into parishes. I don't know how long priests are allowed to be say, college professors--is it like for a year or so? Or longer?

I know that there is conflict when a parish that has been predominantly one language starts saying Masses in another language. It doesn't stop at one Mass, it quickly goes into, "well, we now need another priest who is fluent in the new language, and of course he will need a staff, etc, etc. You essentially have two separate and distint parishes at that point, instead of one unified one, that may have been able to function with one priest, but now has to have more....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 23, 2004.


Thanks everyone for your responses thus far. Keep them coming.

Dan, you're right. Had I had the support when I was young,I would have been a priest. I'm 46 now.

My paternal grandmother was outnumbered; saintly, though she was -- and surely is.

I do have a cousin that is 49 and will be ordained in December.

God bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), March 23, 2004.



GT

Married preists are NOT a solution. This is a line of nonsense that has been thrust upon us by dissenters. It is utter horse hockey. There are many other 'rites' in the Catholic Church and most (all?) have married clergy . . . and guess what . . . they all have a preist shortage. They are facing the same problem as we are! This is a problem with our culture not celibacy. There is no shortage of celibate or non-celibate in other places in the world, like India.

Women preists is also NOT a solution. Preisthood is a calling form God. Since women are incapable of recieving ordination, it must be the case that God does not call them. He is not a trickster. Even in the Church decided to try and ordain women (which it can't, since it is protected by God from doing so), it would not add evon one person the the ranks of the preisthood for two reasons. One, not one single woman would be called by God. Two, a woman going through an 'ordination' ceramony still would not be a preist (and therefore not solve the problem) since she is incapable of recieving ordination. Simply put, the genious fo women lies elsewhere.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 23, 2004.


Ooh, that came off a little harsh on reread. I apologize for my sharp tone.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 23, 2004.


One word.Revival. We need one aboug now, and its baout time for one anywa, and the Passion showed MASSIVE interest in Faith matters still.

-- (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 23, 2004.

AND TO FINISH...

AND , if the Chruhc ceased to loolk both sinister and less cool, then we woudl ahev more peopel in it, and more people in the clergy as a natural result.

end the cultural bigotry aimed at Christaisn in general, and get peopel interested ahain, and you will have new preists.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 23, 2004.


Hi Dano. I respectfully disagree with you. I don't know why you couldn't ordain women who are single and past the age of childbearing in a real shortage situation (which we aren't in yet). I would rather see that than married priests and all the dependent issues that go along with it.

Although here is a scenario for you, now that we have women in the battlefield. Each unit usually has a chaplain, and they are supposedly at least somewhat versed in the other religions/denominations. If someone is dying in battle and wants to get the Last Rites, and the chaplain happens to be female (obviously a Protestant denomination), is she allowed to hear a confession and grant absolution, is the poor soldier assumed to be forgiven from a distance, or is it tough luck?

My point is that, the more priestly duties (I see "clerical" and automatically think "clerk", sorry) you give to the laity, whether you make them Deacons or Extraordinary (that have become more "ordinary" than you might think) Ministers of Communion or whatever, the more you devalue the role of the priest and lead people down the path of well, why not this or that or some other thing.

As to pure admin stuff, sure, the laity can do it, but I don't necessarily consider religious education, counseling, Pre-Cana, RCIA, etc. to be something that the laity are *really* qualified to be doing in the first place.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 23, 2004.



GT,

Why not?...laity can do these just as well as a priest, sometimes better...religious education, counseling, Pre-Cana, or RCIA?

The priest can consecrate, the bishop can ordain or confirm. These are functions reserved to the priesthood. But almost all other functions a priest does can be done just as well by any practicing Catholic that is not otherwise busy with job or family.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), March 24, 2004.


GT,

Woman cannot be ordained. Its against infallible doctrine so its not going to happen.

In the example you give about the soldier, understand that the chaplain's sex has nothing to do with granting absolution. No priest from a non-catholic denomination can grant absolution as they 1) Don't believe in the Sacrament 2)They are not validly ordained. If God forbid, I were to need last rites and the "Rev" Al Sharpton was the only "priest" available I could not recieve absolution from him.

God is merciful and I can assure you that the dying soldier would be granted perfect contrition if he was worthy. God knows our hearts and he would know the soldier's.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.com), March 24, 2004.


I think Father Thomas brings up an interesting point. Why is it that a place like Lincoln Nebraska has lots of priests, but a place like Seattle has a hard time getting one ordained each year? What does the Diocese in Lincoln do?

When I served Parish Council in my former Parish a few years ago, we were asked to discuss the issue of a priest shortage. I mentioned that there were places that had priest surplusses, like Lincoln, and that maybe we should examine how these places manage to create these vocations. The response from the rest of the Parish Council was that we should go and bring their priests here to help with our shortage.

John, you may do well to study places like this. I suspect you will find that Marian devotion and an emphasis on traditional Catholic Values has something to do with it. But that is just my unproven hyppothesis.

Pax et Bonum

Thomas

-- Thomas Dzomba (tcdzomba@catholic.org), March 24, 2004.


Maybe there are lots of priests in an area because they are diocesan (as opposed to order) priests and therefore stay in their local area? So, unless they wanted to go visit a new place, I don't think they can just be assigned there. Maybe the way the particular diocese recruits priests focuses more on the benefits (stay local, for example), just like any other job.

Pat, when I talk about not being qualified to teach, I mean just that. I bet that if you ask many CCD, RCIA teachers, etc. about why there aren't (for example) women priests, they would not be able to give a good answer. And that goes for other things as well--I'm sure that they just as often privately interpret Bible passages, etc. too, but hopefully in a good way.

"The priest can consecrate, the bishop can ordain or confirm. These are functions reserved to the priesthood. But almost all other functions a priest does can be done just as well by any practicing Catholic that is not otherwise busy with job or family. "

Pat, with your statement above, you're really making the case that people should just sit around at home and watch Mass on EWTN instead of attending in person (maybe all Masses locally would become instead Eucharistic services led by laypeople), and that people should handle their own catechism, etc. Everybody can hear other's confessions now, too? That's a new one for me.

And, what does a priest shortage mean exactly to each person--does it mean very few Masses on a given Sunday in an overcrowded parish? No one to speak to when only a priest will do? I don't know what to do about the second instance (laypeople, no matter how well-trained, may not feel the need to keep their own counsel when a difficult issue is brought before them in confidence), but you could easily relieve some of the overcrowding by having more Eucharistic Services led by deacons or laypeople. It is a lot cheaper to keep the utilities running for a few hours and pay a few people to lock up than raise millions for a new church building when you don't have that many people in a parish to justify it.

Maybe if women were allowed to lead the Eucharistic Services (they do already in places) on a regular basis, that would be an acceptable compromise as long as those services can meet the regular Sunday obligation.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 24, 2004.


Over the Christmas holidays, my husband and I had the opportunity to meet a rather engaging young man in his early 30's who shared with us his story of converting from Fundamentalism to the Catholic faith 5 years ago. There in a room full of Catholics, he was telling everyone how he still felt "adrift" in life and wanted very badly to devote himself solely to the service of God..he had discussed this with his own parish priest, who had (according to the young man) told him to pray about it..no further discussion had taken place. Person after person made suggestions such as: "find yourself a good woman and settle down.." or, "move out of Virginia, it's too rural where you are." Amazingly, it was my husband, a non-Catholic, who took this young man aside and asked him how seriously he had considered the priesthood? My husband told me the young man's eyes lit up and he said "YES, but nobody seems to want to take ME seriously, including my own parish priest!". So my husband,knowing a lot more details of this young man's life and background, etc. steered him toward the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in NYC..the last we heard, he had contacted them and appears to be in the process of meaningful dialogue. I guess my point is that I don't understand at all why a young man such as this one would have so much trouble getting people to encourage him to enter the priesthood..his own priest was reluctant to discuss it with him..and it wasn't because of anything to do with the young man's sincerity, it was because of his desire to work with inner city people..something his own priest had no knowledge of..very strange..then to have an entire group of Catholics actually try to dissuade him was so sad. I don't know the answers..I only have questions..

-- Lesley (martchas@hotmail.com), March 24, 2004.


I most definitely agree with Dan, Thomas, and David F. Devotion to Jesus Christ, Marian devotion, respect for the sacraments, proper catechism, discipline, orthodoxy. These are the things that will inspire boys to be priests and girls to be nuns. Why do you think the FSSP seminary is over-full and has to turn away prospective seminarians until they can expand. Thomas had it correct. FSSP priests (at least the ones I know) exude love for catholicism. They wear their cassocks ALWAYS. They teach catholic doctrine, they preach traditional values, THEY WANT TO SAVE SOULS. My family attends FSSP mass about 50% of the time (we have to travel 2 hours one way to attend). Before we started attending there, I couldn't have imagined one of my boys becoming a priest nor my girl becoming a nun. Now after about a year of attending FSSP masses, this is a very real possibility. They have all talked about it, and nothing would make me happier. In my lifetime, 39 years, not one priest or nun has ever emerged from our small town parish, not even close, yet I am certain that several will emerge from the present congregation at the FSSP parish which happens to have about the same number of parishioners. These kids look at priests and nuns with reverence. They see religious vocations as a higher calling, a most rewarding calling.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), March 24, 2004.

"..Had I had the support when I was young. I would have been a priest. I am 46 now."

God called you to be a Dad John. You can't put a 46 year head on a 22 year old. Being a "Dad" is a vocation to. You are looking back 25 years and wishing you had done something different. You wern't called to be a priest years ago.

But 46 isn't a old man in todays world as long as you keep yourself in decent shape. So don't wait 25 more years and than look back and wished you had done something at 46.

If God wants you He will call you. Don't blame that you arn't a priest now on other people. Look at annon. He didn't have people pulling him that way but God decided different.

-- - (David@excite.com), March 24, 2004.


When I was going to Catholic school, grades 3-6, I got a hard sell on the priesthood by the Sisters. Maybe the lack of the sisters has lead to a lack of Priests?

Married Priests -- yes you will then get all those deacons and people who have heard a call to be closer to Christ but are also happily married. On the other hand, there are some cautions: divorced priests will be a problem in a Chuch that does not deal with divorce causally. Also it is likely true that a Married Priest can not give as much attention to the parish as a non-married Priest. This can be made up by the difference in numbers, but then as a poster noted, the net expense goes up. So stick with your ways, and the unattended Catholic Parishes can merrily go protestant or Episcopal or whatever a people who seak a shepard will find. Those sheep stealers!

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 24, 2004.


"FSSP seminary is over-full and has to turn away prospective seminarians until they can expand"

What a pity! almost what a horror! and certainally What a surprise!

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 24, 2004.


I will echo the importance of encouraging religious vocations. I am considering becoming a nun myself (that is, once I become Catholic). Already, the few people I've told who are Catholic act a bit surprised and wonder why I don't ever want to be married or have children. As if it demands some explanation, whereas marriage would not - that is an assumed calling. Folks, religious life is a calling too! I cannot go against what God is calling me to do, and at this point, I believe that is the direction where I'm headed. God gives each different gifts and has different purposes for us in life. I think those who are celibate and have no families on earth can have much more opportunity to serve God & others without the "cares of the world" as St. Paul put it. But if no one were married, our churches would be empty - there would be no Christians. So there is a need for both.

Please, Please encourage all who are considering religious life and treat it just as legitimate as marriage. And in fact we need Catholics to love & encourage vocations even more than marriage. Protestants sure aren't going to do that (I've already gotten two responses from Protestants that I could just remain single my whole life and serve God that way. They are missing the whole point - I long for community in which I can serve God and others together with other Christians.)

The world around us sure isn't going to encourage religious vocations! They will only mock the idea of celibacy by mocking the priesthood for example. They blame celibacy as the cause for these abuses, when the real cause is sin and selfishness and lack of committment in the Church. And lack of encouragement for those in religious vocations. But they will blame celibacy because that is God's intended way and the devil wants to attack it, because he knows that the Church will have resources stretched thin with married priests. Among Protestants "PKs" (Preacher's Kids) are notorious for often going through rebellious stages or turning away from God. Why? Because Dad sent so much time pastoring the flock that he neglected his family. This is not always true, and usually when it's not, the pastor neglects the church and some of his pastoral duties instead.

When Protestants and the secular world - all those around us - laugh at the idea of vocations, mock it, say it's wrong, whatever, those in vocations need the encouragement from Catholics all the more! Catholics are the only ones left who even understand the reasoning behind it and the need for it to support them.

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 24, 2004.


Oh, I forgot to add that Protestants are a culture of marriage. Some will even say that being married is a requirement in order to be a pastor. There is the underlying expectation that all good Protestants should get married, and if you don't, there's something wrong with you. People start to wonder, or feel pity for you, and try to match you up with someone.

Of course they will acknowledge that God calls some people to singleness (after all it's in the Bible). But that gets a little sticky and they don't quite know what to do with single people. Most singles groups at churches are for the purpose of meeting someone to get married, rather than what they should be for - serving God & others together. Also, most church ministries are focused on marriage & family. That's why I realized that the Catholic model for a commitment to celibacy is far superior.

1. there is a commitment, stability

2. there is opportunity to work with a community (monks, nuns) to advance the Kingdom of God rather than just as an individual on one's own. Working as an individual was not God's intention, after all Jesus sent out the apostles in pairs. We need support.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 24, 2004.


I looked up the parish I wrote about earlier, where a nun is in charge, and under "clergy" are the titles:

Pastoral Coordinator (nun) Priest Moderator (priest) Priest Minister (priest) Deacon (deacon)

Note the Coordinator is in charge....

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 24, 2004.


Sean,

You said: "What a pity..." What do you mean? You sound like you're being sarcastic, which is fine with me, but I don't get it.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), March 25, 2004.


Emily,

Well said. You sound like you will make a great nun.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), March 25, 2004.


Brian, Not being sarcastic, it usually does not come across, nor is it a part of me.

But I do feel that it is a pity that in a time of priest shortage a Catholic Seminary is turning away priest canidates. Which was the subject of the quote that I used from one of the above posters. It is looking like the solution is flawed/jinxed even before the start. With luck this is just a startup/bootup problem, one that I forsaw: even if you had a large flux of priest canidates, with several seminarys closed, and all priests either active or worn out/retired, who is left to teach the new generation? Well first you graduate teachers, then priests I would guess. Or take the ones who have been long in the field and rotate them back while using new graduates to take their places.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 25, 2004.


sadder still, sean,

if seminaries still had an open door policy to all who applied then we would still be in turmoil over the scandals that rocked the american catholic church when insurgent pedophiliacs and other disordered types flooded the seminaries with predators instead of priests.

I, for one, am glad they are being discerning in selecting priests.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 25, 2004.


If the seminary is indeed turning candidates away. The candidates should be able to connect with another seminary.

Their sponsors (diocese, society or order) should be able to easily solve the situation.

If the order itself is turning men away, my advise would be for the candidate to try another order.

Many men have tried one order, been told no and gone on to other orders or dioceses. Thomas Merton is the prime example. He was turned down by the Franciscans and accepted by the Trappists.

From what I understand and I may be wrong on this one. I believe Fr. John Corapi, a noted Fullness of Truth Ministries speaker, tried a couple of orders.

God bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), March 25, 2004.


My only source that would say that the seminary are turning canidates away because the seminarys are full is that quote from Brian.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 25, 2004.


Paul,

Please read old quote carefully.

John,

Over the past few years I have heard of Seminary(s) (at least one in Ireland) closing for lack of applicants. If this reverses, there will be a startup problem as I described. But there are some problems that it is more livable to have.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 25, 2004.


Sean,

I see now what you were saying, I guess I was just being dense, as usual. Sorry. The FSSP seminary is raising funds to expand to be able to teach and house more seminarians. The point I was trying to make is that orthodox faith on behalf of FSSP priests and parishes is inspiring more young men to enter the priesthood. If we had more of this orthodoxy and devotion across the board, I believe we would see more young men and women seeking religious vocations.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), March 25, 2004.


Dan Garon,you said:

Preisthood is a calling from God. Since women are incapable of receiving ordination, it must be the case that God does not call them. ..not one single woman would be called by God.

I agree with the first part:A call by God But I HAVE TO OBJECT TO CELIBACY AS BEING A COMMANDMENT FROM GOD, JESUS, PETER,OR PAUL . Aaron's descendants, Moses brother married. Jesus disciples married. Even Timothy says bishops should be the husband of one wife.

Women not called by God? Ask that to Sarah( Abraham's wife) Mriam (Moses sister), Deborah, Huldah (the one that gave the OK for the book of Deuteronomy, Mary (Jesus mother)...

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 25, 2004.


David@excite,

You told John Placette that

God called you to be a Dad John. You can't put a 46 year head on a 22 year old. Being a "Dad" is a vocation to. You are looking back 25 years and wishing you had done something different. You wern't called to be a priest years ago.

I don't think so. As long as the Church continues to promote celibacy as a requirement, not a commandment from Jesus Christ, men like John Placette who feel called by God will not be able to join. Why, they follow also God's other command:be fruitful and multiply.

You already know David that Celibacy was not practiced by the descendants of Aaron. Peter was married. So if Peter was married, then, being married was not an obstacle. Peter did his job well. So those who say that being married will bring more problems into the church should see the good example done by Peter and the other disciples of of Jesus and his brothers: James, Judas, and Simeon. Some of their children ran the Jerusalem church as mentioneed by Eusebius.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 25, 2004.


David, Please don't get me wrong. My life has taken some twists and turns, but I have no regrets. My life brought me to where I am today.

Maybe the Church should "recruit" more seniors for priests and Church leaders, instead of focusing on high school boys. Just a thought.

God bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), March 26, 2004.


John,

I agree with your idea and there are some places that already help some of the older guys that have a call from our Lord. Lifes experiences make us what we are God willing.

Hi, Elipdo

Hope all is well during the holy season. I realy don't take your posts to seriously though. Its hard to after reading about your dreams.:-) Lets keep praying!

-- - (David@excite.com), March 28, 2004.


John, I have seen this work: the older guys bring more perspective, experience, and maturity to the work. Which is another pity: if you do not hear the call untill you are married, you can not then answer it. This is what I have also seen: many older guys serving as deacons because the Church will not accept them as priests because they are married. Change that prohibition and there will be a surge from that source.

But as I said, Married priests come with their own problems. You get to pick the problem set you can best live with. You do not get to pick "no problems".

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 29, 2004.


Thanks, David@excite.

Well, as for dreams, Eugene Chavez Got them out of me in a defunct thread by Kiwi: No Monopoly on the Truth. If it wasn't for 'Gene no one would probably know about them in the Catholic Forum.

Like I said to Paul H: the Only dream I have posted was that I had about my mom, the Pope, and Bush. So when people sy I have been discredited on my dreams, I don't know what they are talking about.

I don't doubt that even you, David has had dreams that have come true. You are a man of Faith, just like me. You pray to God with the same intensity.

If Jesus or God) appeared to you in a dream or vision: would you think that comes from the evil one?

The Christian Yahwist

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 29, 2004.


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