I heard from a local priest that he is a liberation theologian. I remember reading somewhere that the Pope said liberation theology is wrong to teach - is this correct? Are there other veins of it besides the straight Marxist one, that would conform with the Church's teachings? I know this is something that is especially big throughout Latin America. I agree with the principles behind liberation theology (ie. social justice, helping the poor, liberating the oppressed), but I'm not sure that I agree with the ways it has been implemented. Please tell me if there is any official Catholic Church teaching on the issue. I searched the Catechism and could not find anything.

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004

Answers

bump

-- (bump@bump.bump), March 18, 2004.

Is your priest old? Liberation Theology was popular in the 1970s. Though it has distant historical roots in 16th century Christian humanism, and more immediately in Vatican II, Liberation theology was popularized in 1973 by Gustavo Gutierrez, a Peruvian Roman Catholic priest who started a school of thought popular among Latin American Catholics. Liberation Theologians taught that the Gospel of Christ demands that the church concentrate its efforts on liberating the people of the world from poverty and oppression. Some Liberation Theologians ended up supporting some Marxist revolutions. Two members of Nicaragua's Sandinista leadership belonged to the Roman Catholic clergy, a Maryknoll and a Jesuit.

Pope Paul VI noted, “The Church connects but never equates human liberation with salvation in Jesus Christ.” Pope John Paul II, who had long experience with Marxist theory as a bishop in Communist Poland, has been even more specific. In his address to the Third General Conference of the Latin American Episcopate (January 28, 1979), the pope emphasized the truth that the Church is bound “to proclaim liberation in its integral and profound meaning, as Jesus proclaimed and realized it.”

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, was requested by the pope to investigate liberation theology and they released two documents: “Instruction on Certain Aspects of the Theology of Liberation” (1984) and Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation (1986). The first reiterated the grave reservations of the Holy See, pointing out: “The theses of the `theologies of liberation' are widely popularized under a simplified form, in formation sessions or in what are called `base groups' which lack the necessary catechetical and theological preparation as well as the capacity for discernment. The second reminded the faithful that liberation in its fundamental nature has always been taught by the Church and is not the exclusive possession of a single group or set of theologians. Liberation theology continues to find wide support among some theological faculties and various clergy in Central and South America, Africa, and Asia, although it lost much of its vigor and rationale after the collapse and discrediting of Communism. It is also noted that a number of proponents of Liberation Theology have gravitated toward the latest theological fad of ecotheology.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Links to the documents:

Instruction on Certain Aspects of the Theology of Liberation (1984) and Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation (1986).

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Cardenal was one of those Jesuits who played an important role in the execution of that Liberation Theology. What I find interesting is that Jesus did not equate His mission as a revolt, yet the Liberation Theology group found it necessary to get involved in revolution because it allowed for a way to establish Catholicism where Catholicism did not have a home.

...........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

It is hard to really say who the real Jesus of history was, Rod.

On the one hand, Jesus is said to tell people to turn the other cheek, pray for enemies, and so forth.

On the other, he got hard on the Jewish authorities and merchants. He even made a whip and kicked people who sold out of the temple.

His disciples carried swords. Some followers are described as Zelots and sicarii (that is revolutionaries), see Josephus books on these people.

When Jesus entered Jerusalem, he was acclaimed as David's descendant, and thus, able to claim the throne of King David.

Jesus title on the cross says it all: The King of the Jews. That was treason against the Roman Empire.

Was Jesus thinking of an earthly Kingdom?

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), March 18, 2004.

I have always thought that liberation theology was a needed balance vs oppression theology. Oppression theology is saying that the ruler is divinely appointed, or that as slaves you should not rise above where you are. Oppression theology is the Church supporting a really oppressive government because it would be awkward to do otherwise.

And I believe that there are some cercumstances where the people should rise up and bring the goverment down. Not just the things in the American Declaration of Independence, but perhaps anything worse.

And yet, having said that, I am a moderate still on this. I do not support Liberation Theology unconditionally. There can be times were it is questionable, where it is used without recourse to other means of more peacefully changing the goverment.

Often it is used by a set of priests, who seeing their people hurt and hungry and ignored, with the only Church support going to the rich, rebel against the injustice of it all. But once War starts, it usually quickly degenerates into horror.

If I am wrong, teach me. The above is what I have heard.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Sean, Read the documents I linked above.

-bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

"..The above is what I heard if I'm wrong teach me".

How sad Sean that you would leave the holy Catholic Church on what you "heard" and than ask for "teaching"???

"Look before you leap,".Maybe you and Elpido can start a new relegion? You guys can meet half way. Its alright if a baby is killed if you believe Jesus isn't God???

May God give you guys(and your families) the Grace to become Catholics again.

-- - (David@excite.com), March 18, 2004.

David

The man asked to be taught, so teach.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

I saw the effects of so-called "Liberation Theology" in latin america: more civil war, more brigandage, more crime, more poverty! Instead of teaching people to love one another, not because you are rich or poor but because you are people....the LTs taught the poor to hate the rich and the rich to fear the poor.

So much for social solidarity!

They focused so much energy on the "social-justice" side of things, to the exclusion of the mercy and love side of things - to say nothing of the snob appeal of rejecting the rich (who then became total pagans) while working with the ignorant poor (who became cannon fodder) that things only got worse.

By the mid-1990's the only people preaching about salvation, forgiveness of sin, personal moral responsibilty etc. were the Protestants! And whole dioceses were emptied of Catholics. The rich became MORE pagan (which is always easy to do) and so did the poor! Sexual license and drug abuse has increased exponentially - leading to seriously sad situations in marriages, families, and local communities... and yet all the LTs see are "economic" issues.

The LTs promoted armed rebellion in Chiapas, Mexico - producing nothing but bloodshed, destroyed lives, homes, infrastructure and creating animosity. The rich just fled - with their capital and knowhow, leaving the poor even poorer. Only by EVANGELIZING THE RICH can you change a "structure of sin" for the better!

Only by converting the rulers to the cause of Christ can you lift the poor out of crushing poverty. By promoting solidarity across economic lines (both ways) a missionary brings the Gospel to the center of hearts and homes. Preaching anger, envy, jealousy, revenge, violence... that is self-defeating.

Besides, just because you study philsophy for 2 years and 4 years of theology doesn't make you an economic or military expert - and it showed on the battlefield when the peasants were gunned down while their "leaders" *(armed with the finest weapons) ran for the hills.

The fact is, LT is based on a Marxist presupposition that economics is at the basis of all social interactions: thus the easy separation of people into "poor" and "rich" - the poor being somehow magically transformed into innocent doves and the rich axiomatically made into evil incarnate... yet Christ divided people between lambs and goats along MORAL, not economic lines.

Those who achieve salvation in Christ are those who lived Charity - regardless of their economic or social situation of origin. Yet for LTs it's the poor who "as poor" are saved...while it's the rich who are the locus of all evil...

Yet paradoxically the liberation theologian doesn't want to promote those essential social and theological habits necessary to create a middle class. The economics is zero-sum: instead of growing the pie, he wanted to steal from the rich and give to the poor.... rather than make the poor middle-class. Because it's a sliding, relative scale: so long as ANYONE has more than someone else, that person is wickedly "rich" and robbed from the "poor" defined as "everyone else".

It's terribly naive and stupid. I've seen the effects - terrible. Worse than had they done nothing because now the poor hate the rich, and each other!

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

So, what is the difference between the Liberation Theology and today's Missionary ministries in third world countries?

I suppose that initially the missionaries are not trying to establish some form of government. Then, while walking away, we take a second glance and see that in all reality that is exactly what the missionaries are doing. Missionary work is the spreading of the Gospels, even in places where the government forbids it. Much like Cardenal, the mission inevitably liberates the people and gradually destroys that oppresive government over time and attrition. I'm thinking that Cardenal and the LT groups probably had the same motives in mind.(posted elswhere)

But, in light of Joe's post, maybe things aren't so perfect as predicted.

......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

Rod,
Read Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation" A link to the document is higher up in this thread.

-bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 19, 2004.

I had been a follower of Liberation Theology during my college days. The liberation theologians are people who try to find meaning to the Gospel only from a materialistic perspective.A person can be a liberation theologician even with out a believer in God.Liberation Theology is a way of manipulating the Catholic faith and doctrine.For them the faith and faithful are only raw materials for achieving their aim. It is fundamentally opposed to the catholic faith and hence should be discarded. True liberation is possible only if Jesus Christ is accepted by self and society as true god and saviour. There man will find meaning for his existence and it will solve all the problems which are fundamentally the outcome of sin. There is no theology which can run contrary to the gospel truth. Evangelisation is what is required. In Jesus Christ only man can find answer to his problems and not in liberation theology or in any kind of materiallistic philosophies. For Jesus the relationship between God and Man and between man one another that is important and not the way of sharing of material wealth. However the Gospel calls for mercy, compassion, Justice, and truth in whatever man do. His social structures are also to conform to the Gospel values. However this is possible only through correct relationship between God and man and between men one another as revealed in the bible and through the passion and ressurection of Christ, and not through a theology which doesnot care for the relationship of man with God, ie,liberation theology.

-- jose thomas (josepuzhakkara@rediffmail.com), March 21, 2004.

"..The above is what I heard if I'm wrong teach me". How sad Sean that you would leave the holy Catholic Church on what you "heard" and than ask for "teaching"???

" "Look before you leap,".Maybe you and Elpido can start a new relegion? You guys can meet half way. Its alright if a baby is killed if you believe Jesus isn't God???

May God give you guys(and your families) the Grace to become Catholics again. "

this is what I got from a posting person. Now where did I ever advocate abortion? And why the trolish insults? Actully I was once tempted to start my own religion -- but it had been done to death already.(:-))

And I did not leave the Church on hearsay, but for other reasons. A bit of angnostic fuss, and rediscovering God then Jesus outside of the Church, a look at my feelings, a healing time in this forum a while back, another look at my feelings, a good listen to "no cafiteral Catholism -- it must be all or nothing". The last reminds me of a preacher in my town -- said My church or not at all, and I said I like you and your church, but not exculsively, so Not at all.

i can not be fundamentalist -- I take things too litterally as it is.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 23, 2004.

Bill,

Just read one of the above citations/URLs you posted. Wonderful stuff. And It seemed to cover the whole situation: The disparing poor and those who minister to them, the search for a theological support for revolution, and the disasters that often follow, including having your side win and be as oppressive as before. As well as a complete analysis of why Marx is not compatible with any form of Christianity.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com), March 23, 2004.

please visit my thread

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00Bu2L

-- janeiro (janeiro_a@rocketmail.com), March 25, 2004.