Elpidio says "David Ortiz from the ASK JESUS is the fairest moderator I have seen other than Paul M." LOL, LOL, LOL, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING? Oh yes, he LOVES anyone who HATES the Church regardless of how unorthodox they are. Why, he'll cuddle, snuggle and nest with ANYONE no matter how ridiculous their cockamamie notions are . . . that is, as long as they're not, you know, that word that begins with a "C"

Gail

P.S. And Elpidio, I mean no disrespect to you, but your dreams and your visions and your unorthodox views of Christ would earn you the label of heretic by ANY mainline, traditional, Bible-believing church, whether fundamental, evangelical or Catholic. That's why you're so thrilled with David, because he'll give you a platform to spout your nonsense . . . but after all, you are an EX-Catholic!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), March 17, 2004.

I'll comment on this later.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004

Answers

..

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Uh.......turn the other cheek?

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

David

i have something to say here, and i would urge you to listen closely because you face a tremendously difficult task here:

1 Elpidio did not alert you to the thread because he wanted to protest you. he did so to get at Gail.

2 Now, please bear in mind that Gail, in her PS on that thread, says stuff that many others have already said. i believe that you may have said the same about Elpidio's beliefs and extremely bizarre dreams.

3 you are in a position not unlike the Spanish voters recently. remember their choices: to vote socialist because Aznar lied, thereby allowing the terrorists to select your prime minister for you; or to vote for a liar (Aznar) to prevent the terrorists from selecting your prime minister.

5 what you have to decide is whether you will allow Elpidio to get at Gail because of things she said, with which most of us agree.

6 i can't prove that Elpidio has done this for the reasons i state, but i have consistently argued that Elpidio is the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing.

i am also conscious that rod, someone i respect, seems to get on with Elp; and that makes me wonder some times whether i have gotten this all wrong. however, on balance, i believe that Elpidio is being very sneaky and is trying to use you, as Moderator, to strike back at Gail for making points that we all agree with. this is an abuse of the Moderator's role and so Elpidio is not just taking the micky out of you but of us all.

7 i would also refer you to this thread: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00BrL6 and some posts on 10 March between you and gail.

8 a "spat" arose on that date, but it is based in a complete misunderstanding. Gail responded to an exchange between myself and Faith, after FAith and I had already strayed alittle from the point to the old works vs faith debate. the point had already arisen before Gail posted. i feel there has been a misunderstanding here that has created the small issue that Elpidio is now trying to blow out of proportion.

9 i would suggest that you read the posts of 10 March on that thread, and you will see what i mean. a misunderstanding becomes a minor spat.

10 but in the hands of the world's most fluffy, white, grass-eating wolf, it becomes a powerful tool for revenge.

11 over to you D.O. exercise your jurisdiction wisely.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 18, 2004.

David

read this:

"Before the war started, I e-mailed the prseident that there would be about 50,000 Iraqi casualties and about 5000 USA casualties. I am closer on the USA casualties See this antiwar site."

this is just sick.

guess who posted it?

i would urge you to delete this thread and let the whole thing lie. i think Rod's advice is good advice.

PS i'd have voted Aznar. how's about you?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 18, 2004.

Gail

if you are still attending Ask Jesus, i am sorry for stirring this all up. i just feel the need to expose this dirty trick for what it is.

i hope you continue to contribute to this website.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 18, 2004.

Hi Ian.

Elpidio and I get along very well considering our theological differences. Some wolves may seem obvious, others are so smooth and creamy they can devour us in one gulp. Those are the ones that are hard to identify. Elpidio has been very honest with his belief; all of his cards are on the table. We may not agree, but we do chew the fat on many issues. David has also been honest, even if I don't accept some of his ways. Yet, we still manage to converse. Gail will always be one of those amazing people who carries a powerful light. You, Ian, are also one of those shining lights.

Elpidio-

We may have been cut from the same cloth, but there are times that some of your writings get me all wrinkled and worried. I know that we have been through our discussions. Maybe, one day I'll have the ability to convey that greater light we all seek. Also, I would love to have walked in your shoes when you were among the Jesuits. I would also like to have seen that pivotal point of your faith that makes you The Man of Yahweh. Yes, I've read all of your writings, but I'm talking about actually experiencing your "catechism".

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

I love Gail, Ian.

I posted this thread before even Gail put her message there.

I am not doing David a favor.

I was just commenting.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

well perhaps one misunderstanding has led to another to another...and so the best thing is to delete this thread and get on with some hardcore debate? is that how everyone feels?

over to you, Mr Moderator.

PS Elpidio, i have been trying to get on with you. even though i believe you are as Christian as the average Jew or Moslem, i have stopped saying this. i have also resolved to get to the bottom of the Ebionite/ Pauline dilemma that you posed yesterday in an attempt to understand you.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 18, 2004.

pps

if you appreciate the entente cordiale, you can thank rod for it.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 18, 2004.

Hey, If I'm not careful, I might start believing like an Ebonite. Some of St. Paul's writings are concerning.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

Ian,

Please, you know I can't delete his posts. How else can we show others he was wrong?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

And Ian, I've had a number of posts I've been meaning to comment on, but I just don't have time. Maybe this spring break I'd get a chance.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Ian,

Please, we all know that Elpidio's prophecies were not true, and we know what the bible says about false prophets. The "Gail's Lies" was because of her comment about me.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

"but i have consistently argued that Elpidio is the ultimate wolf in sheep's clothing"

Exactly, I am not "attacking" Gail for her statements about Elpidio. He is not a Christian (based on what the bible says, and what he has revealed)

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

" LOL, LOL, LOL, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING? Oh yes, he LOVES anyone who HATES the Church regardless of how unorthodox they are. Why, he'll cuddle, snuggle and nest with ANYONE no matter how ridiculous their cockamamie notions are . . . that is, as long as they're not, you know, that word that begins with a "C" "

As to Gail's comments: No, false teaching is false teaching. I don't care you who are.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

David, I am a Christian. I will always be a Christian no matter what people say or think.

I will defend myself against anyone who tries to define my Christianity based on the Councils of Nicea, Constantinople, Ephesus, Chalcedon,...which even Protestants approve (without knowing).

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

Riiight, you think you are a Christian. A Christian believes that Jesus is Lord, not liar or lunatic. You call him a liar.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Rod, you know me for about a year either at the forum, Ask Jesus, or simply by e-mail. Never have I said you must bellieve that way I do. I don't push my beliefs on people.

You have no idea how many people from Catholics, Budhists, Protestants,.. e-mail me.

You know about the stuff about the future I had told you.

Yet, being in my shoes is something few people can handle.

I assure you that if David O, Ian, Gail,or faith had received the type of mission I received they would have rejected it. Like Jesus used to say, whoever wants to follow me, carry his cross.

99% of Christians are trinitarians (even oneness Pentecostals). About 2,000,000,000. Yet, less than 40% attend their church. Even less hold the beliefs of their church.

On the nontrinitarian side:10,000,000 Jehovah's witnesses, 150,000 assemblies of Yahweh, another group in Peru which claims 2,000,000, I forget the name. They still practice animal sacrifices. 200,000 Christadelphians (with whom I identify). The Way international about 100,000. Unitarians about 300,000, ....plus many Messianic groups.

Mine is the smallest, The Church of Yahweh in Christ Jesus: 6 people.

It has been 20 years of rejections, attacks, abuse, because once you take the road less traveled by, Rod, it really makes a great difference !!!

I like God Yahweh believe we are called to not only believe, and love in him, but also our fellow people.

So my cathechism is not as elaborate like that of the Roman Catholic Church. Don't forget that they even have a book of canon Law, which is even higher than the Bible.

Ian is one of those few who care about history. Yet, the true history about the Church he doesn't know probably.

Even at my school people are divided on me: those who I have made predictions swear by me. Those who think I am crazy say that nothing is true.

From the new principal who I predicted would come, to students dying tragically (7 already, 5 survived attacks...), ...

Not counting my old schools, my relatives,..

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

"even oneness Pentecostals"

tell that to the Elder Bryon

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

And God's name is Jehovah.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

Alright Elpidio, an easy one for you. Who will be Kerry's running mate? and Who will win the Presidency?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

There are many equations but here it is:

If Kerry chooses Edwards as running mate, Gas prices remain high until October, more dead in Iraq: Kerry.

If Bush dies getting shot this year, Cheney loses.

If Bush survives assassination attempt: he may win. Cheney is dumped.

The Christian Yhawist.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

David,

hova means destruction or passion in Hebrew, David. Ye is future tense.

Hava (Eve) means life.

And Adam [0120] 'adam called [07121] qara' his wife's [0802] 'ishshah name [08034] shem Eve; [02332] Chavvah because she was the mother [0517] 'em of all living. [02416] chay

So I would accept it if you said Yahavah or Yehavah.

meaning he lives or he will live, or he will cause to live.

Yahovah (Jehovah in German) uses the first 3 vowels of adonai

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

"If"? ???????? Was that the best you can do? I don't want 'ifs'. IFS don't work. Even I think someone will try to shoot Bush, but that doesn't make me a prophet.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

"Translators Revived", by Alexander McClure, (Maranatha Publications) and "The Men Behind the King James Version", by Gustavus Paine, (Baker Book House). Read that and see if your 'scholarship credentials' matche anywhere near theres. They came out with Jehovah, I'd agree with them.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

I am reading right now books on the translations of the bible. I saw a copy of the original King James. The spelling really has changed!!!

So today's King James has been refined in spelling and punctuation. It had more commas then.

I read some of the names of the translators.

No big deal. They all were Trinitarians!!! But they also copied from Tyndale (hanged and burned in 1530s) and another Bible. So they were not originals in their translation!!!

The Christian Yahwist

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

David, have you seen Tyndale's or Wycliff's Bibles?

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

David, Elpidio has aligned his posts with your rules. He has provided Scriptures to support his theology/doctrine. Yet, I have seen very little arguement over those Scriptures. Yes, David, you did provide that wonderful list of who Jesus IS. But, I'm not yet convinced that anyone has taken Elpidio's supporting Scriptures to his contrary.

BTW, the Wycliff Bible did play a part in my religious endeavors when I was in college. "Yahweh" was first introduced to me, which was very strange to a Catholic.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

I refer to "The Son of Man" and Jesus' baptism when God says that Jesus is His son. We can sit and debate on its interpretations all day long and still have various conflicting conclusions. It will eventually boil down to which conclusion we believe--Catholic, Protestant, New Age, Christian Yahwist, or Free Thinker.

.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

Yehovah for my son David Ortiz,who has much to learn before he meets his maker:

hovah

The Christian Yahwist

PS: check out #1942 also.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

Rod,

The good thing is that both David O and Ian are young. Ian has enough time the eat his words that he will always be a Roman catholic into his 90s. Same as DAVID with his Calvinist views.

I was in their shoes before until I saw the light.

You saw already the minute you had the chranel dream. That post I think has been deleted from the Catholic Forum.

The light from that book(the Bible) told you about the chranel, a repository for bones. You had to leave the old (dead bones) to see the light (truth).

The Christian Yahwist

S

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

Elp

you have time on yr side too!

quizas,..., comeras las palabras.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 22, 2004.

Time will tell, Ian.

I will make it to at least 80, Ian.

By that time the Church of Yahweh in Christ Jesus would be the second largest in the world.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 22, 2004.

Ian,

I'm sorry, but unless your organization can mislead as many people as the Roman organization, your 'church' will hardly exist.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 22, 2004.