"My God my God, why have you forsaken me?" I believe that when Jesus was cruxified, he became sin, and thus was seperated from God, but it seems there are disputes over this. Was Jesus alone on the Cross? It is interesting that Jesus always referred to God as "father" and not "My God" thoughout his ministry. But did the relationship change? Why then did Jesus utter the words "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit" afterwards. Was the relationship restored just before he died? Does it have anything to do with the temple curtain tearing BEFORE he died?

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 03, 2004.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 13, 2004

Answers

Jesus is invoking the first verse of Psalm 22. I'm sure He did this for a good reason. That Psalm ends more hapily than it begins. Perhaps this may offer a clue.

-- Andy (aszmere@earthlink.net), February 3, 2004.

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Luke J,

Mark's reading is more genuine since it is in Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke.

Matthew uses eli instead of Eloi the Hebrew form of Psalm 22.

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Mat 27:47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard [that], said, This [man] calleth for Elias.

This tells me the writer of Matthew combined the Hebrew text and Greek texts (the septuagint) in compiling his Gospel.

He also changed the emphasis: Mark's saying shows Jesus isolation, like a cry of despair.

matthew adds a new triamphal turn in this verse: Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

I often ask myself if this truly happenned or was it created by Mattew.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 4, 2004.

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Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Deut 21:23).'"

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.

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testing....

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 13, 2004.

Elpidio

i have set out below the 4 accounts of Our Lord's last seconds on the Cross. i believe that you have a very strong point here -- inasmuch as, IF i were relying solely upon the Bible to substantiate matters such as the Blessed Trinity, I would be in real trouble here.

furthermore, again hypothetically speaking of course, i would feel somewhat lost by the "apparent" "disparities" in the texts. One the one hand, the somewhat exasperated cry from someone feeling "let down" (St Matthew/ St Mark), AND on the other, the rather assured exit in St Luke's account, and the equally the calm, albeit silent, exit protrayed by St John. if the Bible is the only source of Truth, how can one ever know Truth.

THE 4 ACCOUNTS:-

St Matthew 27

[45] Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over the whole earth, until the ninth hour.

[46] And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying: Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani? that is, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

[47] And some that stood there and heard, said: This man calleth Elias.

[48] And immediately one of them running took a sponge, and filled it with vinegar; and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

[49] And the others said: Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to deliver him.

[50] And Jesus again crying with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

St Mark 15

[33] And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole earth until the ninth hour.

[34] And at the ninth hour, Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying: Eloi, Eloi, lamma sabacthani? Which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

[35] And some of the standers by hearing, said: Behold he calleth Elias.

[36] And one running and filling a sponge with vinegar, and putting it upon a reed, gave him to drink, saying: Stay, let us see if Elias come to take him down.

[37] And Jesus having cried out with a loud voice, gave up the ghost.

St Luke 23

[44] And it was almost the sixth hour; and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

[45] And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

[46] And Jesus crying out with a loud voice, said: Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. And saying this, he gave up the ghost.

St John 19

[28] Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst.

[29] Now there was a vessel set there full of vinegar. And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar and hyssop, put it to his mouth.

[30] Jesus therefore, when he had taken the vinegar, said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 15, 2004.

Well, Ian, my input:

Eli is my God in Hebrew, so Mathew say Jesus used Hebrew, which I doubt, though not impossible.

Eloi is Aramaic, which is used by Mark. Jesus spoke Aramaic. So he probably said it.

Luke tends to minimize the damage. He is the only evangelist which makes damage control. He omits a chapter in Mark which speaks harshly about foreigners. He omits all the hard sayings of Mark, including this one.

John tends to omit it all together. For the final reviser, Jesus felt no pain, it seems.

This shows Mark is the best.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 16, 2004.

I guess I think there is more to it than he just quoting a Psalm. His life was fulfilling this one. Perhaps God was giving the jews (as well as us) a clue to his person. But I still hold to that which all sin came upon him and seperated him.

Ever since sin entered into the world, God demanded a sacrifice. He made clothing from animal skin for Adam and Eve. I think what Rod said about the animals being saved in the Ark is very revelant here. Not only did God demand a sacrifice for sin by the Israelites, but he required one without blemish. Why did God want the best? Maybe it was just so that we could offer our best. Some say this is why Abel's offerings were pleasing and Cain's weren't. (By the way, where did this sacrifices start?) I think that the trespass was placed upon the animal, therefore it could not have any "blemish" of it's own.

God created the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), March 30, 2004.

That was the greatest cry for help and the best prayer in the BIBLE

-- GEORGE ALEX (kv19862086@yahoo.com), July 28, 2004.