Does protestantism have any disadvantage?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread |
Does protestantism have any disadvantage?-- david silvestri (davidsilvestri@aol.com), February 21, 2004.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 13, 2004
Take a full grown tree and begin to chip away at it. Step back and look at all of the splinters on the ground, then tell me where the tree that once stood has gone to................................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 21, 2004.
Does protestantism have any disadvantage, let's see: No authority
No eucharist
No way of solving disputes other than starting your own denomination
No history
Other than that, I guess protestantism looks pretty good.
-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), February 21, 2004.
its fundamental disadvantage is that it is manmade. ergo, its beliefs and its traditions and .... are manmade. they may, to some extent, coincide with the God-made Church. That is welcome, but it is pure happenstance. -- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 21, 2004.
"No authority" - do you mean from men or God? Whoever isn't against us is for us?? "No eucharist" - the gospel of John comes to mind.
"No way of solving disputes other than starting your own denomination" - *laughing* yes you are right.
"No history" - every religious belief has a history, and nearly every belief, christian or non, has roots in either Judaism or Christianity.
-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 23, 2004.
"No authority" - do you mean from men or God? Whoever isn't against us is for us?? Every denomination will respond the same way. Even those who claim non-demonination have some kind of man-made authority.
"No eucharist" - the gospel of John comes to mind.
It should, but what do you mean?
"No way of solving disputes other than starting your own denomination" - *laughing* yes you are right.
"Splinters"....ouch!
"No history" - every religious belief has a history, and nearly every belief, christian or non, has roots in either Judaism or Christianity.
Even the Heaven's Gate cult?
................................................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 23, 2004.
Authority. hmmm? We got to have somebody to lead us. Sure, Protestantism claims that any man can lead himself. I don't think so. God had to send His Son to lead us. ...........................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 23, 2004.
About Protestants: All of them have authority. -Either a President, archbishop (anglicans), ....
All of them have the Eucharist:
-Lutherans, anglicans, Calvary Chapel,... Even Jehovah's witnesses (even though I don't classify them as catholics). They have such reverence for the Eucharist, that they only give to less than 9000 elect out of 7 million members. For Catholics the belief is that somehow magically the bread and wine without changing appearance turn into the real body and blood of Jesus. So far no one can prove that to me. I know the difference between blood and wine.
All of them have a history: Protestants trace their origins to 3 movements: -The waldensian movement in Southern France around the 1200s (first Bible only group) -The Moravians and Wicliffites (from John Huss burned in 1415 and John Wycliff also burned for translating the Bible) -Finally the reformation of the 1500s: The 95 theses of Luther in Germany, the reformation of Calvin in Switzerland, The Calvisnim in Scotland, The Anglican separation by Henry VIII, The german baptists and anabaptists, and the Amish.
Methodism comes from the Church of England.
Other movements from the 19th centruy were the beginners of Adventism: 7th day, Jehovah's Witnesses, original Church:Churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ... 1930s: Holy name, The Way international,... 1900s: Pentecostals..... 1960s: Calvary Chapel, Vinyards,Assemblies of Yahweh...
The Christian Yahwist / The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 23, 2004.
Main disadvantages: - believing that the Bible was written by God or men inspired by God (that is like trasncribing God's words). -Thinking that everyone goes to Hell who doesn't believe (I wonder what happens to poor blind people,or deaf, or children...) -Believing everything is in the Bible. All answers are there. -Believing God stopped talking to human beings directly 2000 years ago. -Worshipping Jesus instead of God. Main points: -trying to prove if a certain belief is in the Bible (received one). -Not worshipping images, saints, Mary,... -Prayer to Jesus
The Christian Yahwist
The Man of Yahweh
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 23, 2004.
Elpidio said,"- believing that the Bible was written by God or men inspired by God (that is like trasncribing God's words)." Moses wrote the ten commandments on stone, and they were still God's Word.
"-Thinking that everyone goes to Hell who doesn't believe (I wonder what happens to poor blind people,or deaf, or children...) -"
Jesus is the way the truth and the life. There is no other way to get to heaven except through the door. If there is, please show me elpidio.
"Believing everything is in the Bible. All answers are there. -"
This is a straw man argument that I shouldn't even correcting. Those who advocate 'Sola Scriptura' do not believe this. The Bible even says that it does not hold all the information in the world.
"Believing God stopped talking to human beings directly 2000 years ago."
He stopped for 400 years. Old Testament i think?
"-Worshipping Jesus instead of God."
This is the thing that makes you non-Christian. You still have no disproved the list I showed you compiled by Matt Slick. "100 truths about Jesus". You started off, but all are just "messy Greek" arguments. Jesus is God, and certainly claimed to be God and go crucified for that.
"The Christian Yahwist...The Man of Yahweh "
I am starting to wondering about what this really means.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), February 23, 2004.
Yes Rod, the Heaven's Gate, House of Yahweh etc,,, as twisted and evil as they were, the leaders formed their cults based upon christian doctrine (a scarey thought). The Branch Dividians (David Koresh & Waco) were a group of what was once 7th day Adventists. -- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 23, 2004.
My point, again, is who can you trust? ..........
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
How about the Necenes? ..................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
What authority does the Catholic Church have that a Protestant Church can't also have? We all look back to apostlic teachings.......
Just because the Catholic Church claims authority for itself based on misinterprested Scripture I might add....doesn't make their claim any less man-made.
-- (faith01@myway.com), February 24, 2004.
Faith, the same can be said of any church. You can replace "the Catholic Church" with any other name under the sun. ..........................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
That is why I believe that Christ's church is none of our earthly establishments.... -- (faith01@myway.com), February 24, 2004.
You've got to be kidding. Where else but on earth where us mortals live should there be a church?--a Church. .................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
Christ's church is a spiritual thing for now. Yes we are His Body, so it is physical in that respect. But believers in Christ are not confined to an earthly institution. Christ's church is His Body of Beleivers. -- (faith01@myway.com), February 24, 2004.
So, do you have any practicallity to His Body of Believers in the structures or faith systems that people require in order to continue their faith and the bringing in of non-believers? ...................................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
Even this tiny forum functions as some structure of "body" that shows a light of the Gospels, at the very least. ...........................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
Um...could you rephrase that rod? Not sure I understand your question. Thanks : ) -- (faith01@myway.com), February 24, 2004.
People need institutions for their faith systems. They need things spelled out to the "T". .....................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 24, 2004.
Well I suppose we do need to come together in some way. This would be a physical church of people on earth. The Bible shows us that it was done. There were many churches--none Roman Catholic, though eventually there was a church in Rome too. But these churches all had their own authority to run as an individual church--with elders and deacons and pastors... and they followed the apostolic teachings. We can do this today., and we do do this today.
The church at Rome did not have authority over any other church in the New Testament times.
I think we need to find a church that will guide us through the Scriptures. Each of us need to choose how we will worship Christ. Our understanding of salvation will effect our decision. If we hope to get to heaven through a life-long process of sacraments, obedience, and good works, then we will probably feel the need for an ongoing sacrifice, such as the Mass. If, on the other hand, we are trusting Christ's death on the cross as a perfect and sufficient offering for our sins, we will want to celebrate His finished work. Our desire will be to worship with Christians who use bread and wine as symbols to remember Christ, not to sacrifice Him.
Taking personal responsibility for our souls, we must search out the truth and respond to God accordingly.
-- (faith01@myway.com), February 24, 2004.
testing
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), March 13, 2004.
"The church at Rome did not have authority over any other church in the New Testament times."erm,..., sorry,...,
Sometime during the reign of Nero or Domitian (roughly 70 or 100AD), the Church at Corinth sought guidance from the Bishop of Rome, Pope St Clement.
the good Pope provided his admonishment on the way in which Corinth was going. and required that news of an improvement be sent through his appointed messengers.
this is the act of a Pope as pastoral leader.
it may well pre-date the death of St John the Apostle.
i would like to see your historical account that says otherwise.
-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 15, 2004.