Will Super Tuesday elevate (not coronate) Kerry and will a Democrate help blacks in America and around the world?

greenspun.com : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread

This is it. The big day! Will the Democrates have their choice for the Bush Basher in November? Will Edwards quietly slide into the V.Presidential slot?

My greater question is how do you my American Brothers and Sisters feel Kerry would do if elected. Has black America continued to stay in the Democratic Camp? Has it paid off? Will a Democrate make a difference for our Churches?

Looking for your opinions Blessings from Bermuda

P.S. Our Annual Conference begins today! Please pray for Bishop Grady and our Conference Family

Thank You

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004


Well Brother Brangman, that question will start a good discussion. As you know the Brothers and Sisters on this board cover the full spectrum of political thought. Speaking for myself, I have not seen ANYTHING that the Republicans have done for us. On the other hand, some here can point to Judge Thomas as a step of progress, I do not. On a positive tip, God's Blessings on the Burmuda Annual Conference and Bishop Grady as well as all delagates and visitors. My Pastor, Rev Dr. LeRoy Attles is with y'all today. It is Annual Conference season up here in the First District. I am looking forward to the New England Conference in April. I am a Delegate this year. God Bless you all I pray for a successful Conference Bro Bob

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

Senator Kerry disgraced himself and his party by publicly uttering profanity towards President Bush and basking in delight by refusing to apologize for his intemperate remarks. He lacks the professional deameanor to be President. John Edwards is a much better candidate but he will not win the nomination because of the strong anti-war following Kerry commands (Dean leftovers). I remind those who continue to put their political faith in Democratic politicians that a Northern Democratic candidate has not won the Presidency in over 40 years! Why do so many think "Lurch" Kerry can do what neither Humphrey, McGovern, Teddy Kennedy, Mondale & Dukakis could not do - Win the White House? Even if Lurch wins in the general election the impact his victory will have on the quality of black life in America and abroad will depend on how technology, markets and resource management respond to the Presidential vote. Contrary to popular opinion, the Presidency has an exaggerated impact on job, housing and educational opportunities. The US Congress determines fiscal policy and the Federal Reserve Board controls monetary policy. Some folks like "feel good" symbolic victories when their candidate (Dem or GOP) wins office. I do not vote based on feel good expectations. QED

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

Thank You, Brother Bill I knew you were coming. Too tasty a "softball" to resist? :-) Oddly enough I agree with you that my Jr. Senator nor likely any Dem will beat Bush. I am sure you will see a new series of "Wille Horton ads " following in President Dad's footsteps. Only this time it will be leather-clad Provincetown Gay marriages. It is a pity that the GOP continues to get away with what they do. Since the Administration wants to make fast food jobs manufactuering jobs I will feel better for the millions of jobs they lost to overseas and the manufactuering picture will improve substantially. Was it Regan that said the ketchup qualifies as a veggie for a food program? Some things never change. It was refreshing to have the Teacher Unions uncovered as a Terrorist Organization. Oh, well, I am glad they are so vigilant. Bro Bob

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

I can't say I am for John Kerry but come on now, if Kerry is not qualified because of his remarks re Bush then Bush cannot be qualified for misleading the whole world on WMD. I guess neither issue will be a determining factor, but how do you come up with over 2 million new jobs and they disappear overnight? Oh that's right Bush never said that.

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

Brother Bob,

I totally agree with you. There is simply no way I would vote Republican regardless to who is the candidate. The history of the Republican Party for the past 140 years has made me suspect of their ability to govern all the people or to tell the truth to them.

My favorite Republican, Bishop Henry McNeal Turner, said it all too well in his own day. The saddest thing of all is that what he said and wrote is as true today as it was a century ago.

Of this one thing I am perfectly sure, I am going do all that I possible can to see that what we have experienced this past four years will not be repeated again. Today I proudly cast my vote in an effort to assist in making this change.

By the way Harold, the jobs disappeared by "magic" just like the Florida Presidential votesof four years ago.

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

During the Presidential Campaign of 2000 the Democrats were in deep denial that the American economy was not entering a recessionary phase along the business cycle. Professional business cycle forecasters (I served as forecasting member of the Philadelphia Federal Reserve Bank 1999-2002) were predicting a slowdown in macro economic activity but the Gore camp was disseminating information attempting to impeach our bi-partisan forecasts and that of the Conference Board, Wharton Econometrics and Wall Street Journal to name a few. Well, as the facts would show, the economy did move into a recession in mid 2001 but rebounded strongly in 2003. The Bush tax cuts, as theory would predict, did contribute to consumer spending and investment growth. I used my tax rebate and if any did not use their rebate I hope they gave it to their church or to the poor.

The Dow is back over 10,000, GDP growth for 4th Q 2003 was a robust 4.1% and the overall unemployment rate is around 5.6%, still too high, but hardly at a level suggesting we have an epidemic of not enough jobs. Market economies characterized by diffusion of technology make certain jobs obsolete. This is and indisputable economic fact. The "jobless recovery" critique is an effective political scare tactic but it has no credibility in analytical economics.

Only non-inflationary economic growth can promote stable job growth. No politician can change that outcome. To think otherwise displays a fundamental misunderstanding about how the economy really works. Any one who opines that politicians, particularly Democrats, have a disproportionate influence in the creation of real wealth and job growth should email me ASAP for a refresher in Economics 101 :-) QED

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

The "jobless recovery" critique is an effective political scare tactic but it has no credibility in analytical economics.

Give that schpiel to the unemployed.

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

Unlike party loyalists, my conclusions are based on the theoretical design and predictability of analytical models. That's the MO for all respectable professionals in my field. 90% of most people who make economic commentaries have no formal understanding of economics. This is Dickens Law :-) If they really understood economics they would know that oxymoronic phrases like "jobless recovery" or trying to stop the "exporting of American jobs" are phony and false expressions. If truth is the first casualty in war, logic is the first casualty in policy debates. I am member of the persecuted minority. QED

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

I am not looking for the usual Party Politics here but for the forcast and future for the U.S. economy. Will the tax cuts only balloon the deficit or will defence type spending mean more opportunities for our people? Kerry does not strike me as someone who has a clue on the economy but then neither does little George W. I find it interesting that the U. S. political structure seems to bealways returning to previous decisions with the view of review and or overturning the decision. Soon the beginning of the exodus will begin in Iraq how do you feel the foreign policy would be crafted and how would the economic policy of Kerry help our people? Does Kerry have a clue? Is his background crammed with balanced budgets in his state?

What is your view

Blessings from Bermuda

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

Brothers and Sisters,

Forgive me if I say something ignorant in this forum as I'm not well versed in the political debate or landscape. I can sum up my political leanings this way. Republicans reduce taxes or at least say they do, while democrats raise taxes or have the reputation of doing so. I tend to go with the democrats because raising taxes is usually done with the intent of providing some service or benefit to the citizenry, while cutting taxes almost always results in scaling back of social programming or outright elimination of it, enriching the rich and hurting common folk. War sentiments seem to be more moderate with democrats, and they seem to embrace an agenda that, at least on the surface, is equally concerned with the domestic as it is with the empire. In short, in my opinion, almost any democratic candidate is preferable to the party of Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, and Ashcroft.

In Christ,

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

Well it looks like we's in the Big House now. Massa done speaked for us. Massa Kerry is gonna be like Massa Clinton.

"President Clinton was often known as the first black president. I wouldn't be upset if I could earn the right to be the second," he told the American Urban Radio Network. Is no one outraged by this type of patronizing? If he is the second Black President are we in for more interns getting shagged in the White House?

For those blasting Bush on the economy and such here are some facts:

In the most recent two quarters, real GDP has expanded at a 6.1% annual rate, the fastest growth in 20 years. Moreover, the NBER says that the recession ended two-and-a-half years ago, in November 2001.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 1.4 million civilian jobs have been created in the past year.

In the past 12 months, inflation-adjusted retail sales grew by 3% and stand at an all-time record high.

According to the Institute for Supply Management (ISM), manufacturing activity has operated at the fastest rate in 20 years during the past three months. In February, the ISM employment index climbed to a 16-year high, indicating that manufacturing jobs expanded in February for the first time since July 2000. The ISM Supplier Deliveries Index indicates that purchasing managers are experiencing delays in order fulfillment. In the past, Alan Greenspan has argued that this indicates the economy may be overheating.(and this does not include Fast-food jobs)

Non-farm productivity expanded by 5.4% in the past year, its fastest rate of growth in 23 years.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average has increased by 35% in the past year. Last year, 1.09 million new homes were sold (an all-time record high) and the average sale price for those homes increased 10%.

If a Democrat were in office we would be saying this is great news, but with a Republican we are waiting for a collapse.

To quote the first Black President, "It's the economy, stupid." It is strong and getting stronger.

-- Anonymous, March 02, 2004

So let's talk about the records/accomplishments that Baby Bush has set:

And he wants four more years? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

If he were a pastor or a Bishop, he would have been sat down at the first opportunity.....

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2004

The last two entries in this thread priovide an interesting contrast about the uuse (abuse?) of data. Parson Martin cites respectable organizaions like the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) and the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) and the Institute of Supply Management (ISM). During the course of my professional career I have utilized informaion from NBER and BLS. Since its founding in the early 20th century by the distinguished Univ. of Wisconsin economist Wesley C. Mitchell, NBER is the official custodian of GDP computations and business cycle research in the US.

Now in contrast, our esteemed AME-Today moderator counters with an impressive list of incriminating data designed to illustrate the ineptness and mismanagement of the American economy. Parson Harper's snapshot of economic, cultural and political events reads a lot like the literary famous "Harper's Index" found in the popular monthly periodical, Harper's Magazine. I don't think it is an act of serendipity that the popular publication and our moderator bear the same name :-) My only lament is Parson Harper's conspicuous absence of authoritative economic citations like those offered by Parson Martin.

I join Parson Martin and other persecuted minorities who are distressed over the partonizing comments by "Lurch" Kerry. This form of "political prostitution" for racial votes should be offensive to all irrespective of party affiliation. But, most blacks warmly embrace anybody who say anything with a Democratic view about race. Lurch panders the black vote, Rep. Corrine Brown assails a prominent Hispanic American for being a "white" Bush- lackey and most recently Rep. Maxine Waters (with approval by TransAfrica's Randall Robinson) is giving credibility to the incredible assertion about the US role in the so-called "kidnapping" of former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. This is the same Maxine Waters who believes the quintessential conspiracy theory that the CIA implanted crack cocaine in CA's black inner city neighborhoods to help finance the Contra wars in Central America during the mid 80s.

Any one who believes that Aristide was "kidnapped" by US forces as part of a coup d'atat apparently believes that Secretary Powell is a liar. Haiti has literally been in economic and political turmoil for most of its 200 years as an independent Republic. The only exception being the period of US occupation of Haiti from I believe 1915-1935. Without searching the Internet for clues, I admonish anyone to name three key US imports from Haiti. Haiti, like North Yemen or Estonia has no strategic economic value to the US. The only reason why the country is on the political radar screen is due to proximity and its unique African ties to the US.

So, you can believe in comptemptible conspiracy theories about the global nefarious motives of the US and Prez Bush in particular or you can believe in the integrity of honorable but imperfect men and women who are working to make America safe and free from tyranny and the threat of physical security. I've made my choice just like everybody else. QED

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2004

Bind it God. Please.

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2004

Mary -

I'm confused about your prayer request. What exactly needs binding? Is this directed at something I wrote? As I re-read my comments the only visible errors that "jump out" are a few misspelled words. Does my professional assessment of the American economy warrant a "binding"? Does the fact that "Lurch" Kerry seeks to use a patronizing strategy for black voters merit "binding"? Does the fact that I dispute and reject Aristide's ridiculous assertion about his alleged "kidnapping" warrant "binding"? Or, does the fact that I, consistent with Biblical truth and AME Doctrine, reject Lurch Kerry's position about gay marriage signals "binding"? As the former occupant of the Oval Office and chief apostle of obfuscation would say, what or who is the "it" in your request? QED

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2004

I am asking God to bind the ugliness in US ALL! I am asking Him to elevate us to a new level. He is not pleased. That I know!

-- Anonymous, March 03, 2004

Mary I feel the timber you are sending up.

I love how we are throwing around these economic indicators willy- nilly. I love how Mr. Martin refers to "Massa Clinton" and "Massa Kerry" as he bows before "Massa Bush."

But what I think we really need is not reactionary knee-jerking, oh let's crucify Corrine Brown, she made an utterly stupid remark, which signifies her lifetime membership in the annals of American politics.

And while we all are searching for weapons of mass destruction, and wondering who did or did not kidnap the former Haitian president, let's find out the economic state of those people who predominate at our worship services and who populate the areas surrounding the vast majority of worship edifices?

What about them? How are they fairing in this economic recovery? What is their GDP? What is their unemployment rate? What's the outlook for their interest rates? I love statistics as much as the next guy but what does marginal tax rate reduction mean when your tax rate is negative and your income non-existent?

What are these people going to do if Greenspan's latest prognostication about social security is correct, after all many of them pay far more in payroll taxes than they do income taxes. And now the money they have in Social Security may not even give them the now non-existent $255 death benefit?

Republican or Democrat be darned, what would represent an economic recovery plan for these Americans? By the way how do they benefit if gays don't marry and shifting their jobs offshore is good in the long run?

Let's not be so partisan and ugly when we need to use the intellectual and analytical gifts of our father to help our neighbors.

Bill--"Lurch" may be funny but it is awful disrespectful--do they still say that second half of the decalogue at your church, After Jesus tells us to love God he says what love your neighbor as yourself.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

Let me see if I understand the last two responses. God is displeased because of the way I have assessed the economic, moral and spiritual condition of our country. Furthermore, my characterization of Senator Kerry by an affectionate nickname "Lurch" is evidience of disrespect and impiety on my part. These conclusions are beyond irony. I find it odd these statements are offered when in past time my critics have provided commentary similar to what I am now accused of violating. Since when is truth "ugly"? According to Jesus truth is a liberating experience. Brother Harold admonishes us to be respectful of Senator Kerry yet he has exercised his artistic and editorial rights by referring to President Bush in lower caps and interjecting terms like "selected" president even though the election of 2000 resulted in GW Bush winning the electoral vote. Is this respectful? This topic involves secular and partisan politics. By its very nature it will provoke spirited, yet not always spirtual, exchange. However, I refrain from malicious name calling towards my political opponents becasue I believe it is more important to point out where the differences are and why they are significant. If anyone on this BB wishes to debate this and other issues with me in person please join me in Nashville, TN next month (April 14-17 Marriott Airport Hotel)for the Annual Ministries in Christian Education Conference sponsored by the AME Department of Christian Education. QED

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

Oh Bill you misread me, I am asking for a clear analytical reading of the economic state of the Black community, not in opposition to any partisan position but just a factual reading that perhaps you might have access to. And you guys have changed me I have seen the light with regard Pres. Bush and I just don't want you all to go that same route. And can't we be spirited and spiritual at the same time?

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

There was an AME minister from New Jersey (I am not sure) who went to Haiti in the late 80s and early 90s and ministered to the Hatian people. She literally walked the streets and took articles of need to the Haitians. I remember speaking to her at a banquet many years ago. She told me how she walked past men holding guns and bodies in the streets. Does anyone know her name? Perhaps she could shed light on the subject.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

Well Since I started this maybe I ought to interject.

It was not my intention to start up the kind of intense responses I now see. I must apologize for not looking at this with a different approach. I believe a deep breath may be needed. My genuine interest is in the discussion on our past and present political approaches. Blacks appear to be in the camp (in the main) of the Democratic party. Has the plight of Blacks in America gotten worse since George W became President. Lests leave out the sarcasism over election and selection. He is the President and Commander in Chief. Let us not get distracted from the issue I believe Professor Dickens may be seeking to articulate. What is the net economic position blacks have yielded under the Republican versus the Democratic Administrations. Has Bush's program with Churhes moving forward? ( I did see in the news religious leaders including Bishop G.E. Paterson at that Press Conference). I have little regard for some of the decisions the President has made in his first term (particularly the attack in Iraq) but the country has moved. Are we any better?


-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

Brother Nalton:

There is nothing wrong with "intense" conversation, even on a bulletin board. That's what sets this bulletin board apart from "others". Anything less than that would be extremely boring. However, our fellow brother, Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said that we should learn how to "disagree" without being utterly "disagreeable".

God bless.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

The democractic spirit is alive and well on this discussion board. I am not thrilled about Kerry however I know Bush has done a poor job. The current administration is dangerous in that the middle class working American is being manipulated for the sake of the few rich and powerful.

On a different train of thought Jim Wallis in the Soul of Politics lifts up the pro and cons of both parties and suggests the need for a more progressive form of government. The American experiment will go through significant hardships if the poor continue to get poorer and the rich continue to get richer. If healthcare can not be provided or assurded Americans will continue to suffer. On its current course America will go the way of the Roman Empire on its decline.

Spiritually and care for the least of these must be infused into our political conversations and actions. Personally, I would like to see Barack Obama gain the Senate seat then run for President. He brings integrity and faith to the political arena the likes of Senator Paul Simon.

I appreciate the dialogue on this board and encourage good hearted and thought provoking comments. Peace.

-- Anonymous, March 04, 2004

Moderation questions? read the FAQ