A Passion for Music...A Battle with Satan John Debney, who wrote the score for The Passion of the Christ, reveals his spiritual battle while working on the music for Mel Gibson's powerful movie "Debney said that the battle he felt with Satan as he wrote the music became "really personal between us." He went on to say, "I had all these computers and synthesizers in my studio and the hard drives would go down and the digital picture that lives on the computer with the music would just freeze on his [Satan's] face. Then the volume would go to ten and it would happen all the time." For FULL STORY, please see http://www.solt3.org

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 29, 2004

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-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 29, 2004.

A person cannot have a battle with something that does not exist. "I am Yahweh, and there is no other. I form light and I create darkness; I produce good and I create evil; I Yahweh do all these things. Isa.45.4-9 May God save us from our psychological need for polytheism.

-- garcia frausto (gfrausto01@sbcglobal.net), March 03, 2004.

Satan is a fallen angel, he is not a deity. The quote should read: "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@Hotmail.com), March 03, 2004.

Bill, Our friend Frausto seems to deny Satan exists.

When God says ''I create evil'', it is not the evil of sin He speaks of, but afflictions and punishments of the sinner. God made all Creation good. Sin is man's work and the devil's. That we know there is a Satan, is definite. God created him an angel, good; but he fell because of his own sin, and good became evil.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 03, 2004.

yet one more example of how a poor case of personal interpretation on a sola scriptura bases can lead to grave misunderstandings.

Mr. Frausto is denying the existance of satan, who is CLEARLY shown in the gospels actively parlying with Jesus. How can he do this? well, obviously, his understanding of God is so superior that he doesnt even need to regard the hebrew, greek, and aramaic that the bible was written in to understand things.

forget years of study, cross referencing scripture, linguistic training, and a seal of the Holy Spirit... Mr. Fausto knows what he believes, and no scripture can conflict with what he thinks.

but I would remind Mr. Fausto, in his supreme knowledge of the universe and all things religious, that many a wiser man has quoted "the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didnt exist"

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 03, 2004.

With scores of biblical interpretations (the few well known and the many known mostly to academia) the concensus is that the devil is an enculturating device necessary for civilized living. There are tons of anthropological data that would convince most reasonable people that the devil (or an equivalent concept) is an extremely old idea especially important to form a self-healing ideology and preemtive device to true believers of many religions. The devil provides an "out" from any contrary argument or ideology. All belief systems including scientific and philosophical ones also have self-healing and preemtive defenses and indeed it is a hallmark of all belief systems communal or personal. Perhaps a better place for infallible information would be placement of these truths in our genes, universally understanable to all no matter what language or I.Q. of the person. Presently we must be content with uncertainty or delusion. Personally I think delusion is more compatable with our hunger for certainty.

-- garcia fraustoc (gfrausto01@sbcglobal.net), March 03, 2004.

Trust me, Garcia, the devil exists. There isn't a mystic alive or dead who would agree with anyone who says Satan does not exist.

To pretend Satan does not exist is a very dangerous path to take.

For a lot more reading on the subject, see:
the old Catholic Encyclopedia on the Devil.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 04, 2004.

Fraustus calls Satan ''an extremely old idea especially important to form a self-healing ideology and pre-emtive device to true believers,'' The only thing as old as Satan is the sucker who falls in his clutches. Extremely old, but still around in the pits of self-absorption. The wisdom of man is folly to God. Frausto is clearly an atheist. The fool says in his heart, There is no God. Therefore, a fool must assert there is no devil.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 04, 2004.

I appreciate your forbearance with my bad spelling. I also like the helful links, thanks. I am not an atheist but an ardent monotheist- Spinozistic third-world Cathoilic. I know most believe Spinoza to be a a crazy genuis but after 30 years of searching I find his analysis of religion to be the least flawed. Thirdworld Catholics excercize their right as people with freewill to amend their beliefs as their mind and conscience leads them at any point in their lives. Belief and faith are a process just as life is and stagnation goes contrary to our God given search-loving mind/soul.

-- garcia frausto (gfrausto01@sbcglobal.net), March 04, 2004.

Yes; there's little doubt many narcissists are found in 3rd world societies.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 04, 2004.

garcia, According to Spinoza it is only in the State that justice and law, injustice and transgression are conceivable, the individual, in order to be able to live according to reason, must surrender his rights to the community. Then, too, he must obey the government in everything, even against his reason and conviction, unless a command contradicts universal feeling, as the murder of parents. No man can ever act according to his covictions, if a law of the State stands in the way. Thus Spinoza upholds only a partial freedom of conscience. On the other hand the government has the right to supervise the external practice of religion.

He also believed that God=Nature which is pantheism, not monotheism.

You really believe this?

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 04, 2004.

Spinoza wrote on three seperate levels and is extremly difficult. Most don't have the time to devote years into understanding a holographic philosophy. No, Spinoza was not a panthesis -he was a monist in which the highest achievment was the "Intellectual Love of God." The levels of meaning were addressed to those at any of the three levels of understanding. Most importantly his view of God is overwhelmingly one of absolute love on all levels of experience.

-- garcia frausto (gfrausto01@sbcglobal.net), March 04, 2004.

A monist believes that in the view that reality is one unitary organic whole with no independent parts...that is to say God=Nature...that is to say there is no difference from the creator and the created...that is to say a pantheist. It really is not that difficult to understand. He wasn't a monotheist, he was a pantheist.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 04, 2004.

Spinoza is the finger that points out the moon and it seems you are fixated on his finger- (definitions, concepts, commentaries by those who have not experienced Spinoza's "God"{its better to use the qualifier "-nn" as is use in philosophy}. God-nn is an experience so ecstatic that there is no way to describe it. There are many types of ecstasy all ligitimate to those lucky enough to have lived through the overwhelming awe. Spinoza's God-nn is a continuous blessing-nn to those who "have eyes to see and ears to hear". Spinoza never disparaged anyone's religion or their right to hold beliefs contrary to the world- view of the times. In fact he wanted to translate the entire Bible into Dutch. All he wanted was the right to believe-nn and for the right of all people to believe as their conscience leads them. His objections to other religions was the intolerance and coersion to convert to their "true religion" (a near universal belief that has caused much misery).

-- garcia frausto (gfrausto01@sbcglobal.net), March 05, 2004.

Garcia,
Listening to one's real concience should bring one closer to the Church Christ built, not away from it. The hard part is actually listening and not getting distracted by the 'finger'.

Spinoza's way is a distraction and has lead societies to human rites abuses.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson-nospam@hotmail.com), March 05, 2004.

Bill, Thanks for an eye opening conversation. May God be with you.

-- garcia frausto (gfrausto01@sbcglobal.net), March 05, 2004.

Take care, Garcia

-bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 05, 2004.

Eugene, And few narcissists exist in the First World? Where have you been?

-- Richard (re48903@yahoo.com), March 06, 2004.