For Elpidio - 100 Truths About Jesus

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If you cannot refute this elpidio, then stop calling yourself a christian.

100 Truths About Jesus

Jesus claimed to be God - John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14); John 10:30-33
Jesus is called God - John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8
Jesus is the image of the invisible God - Heb. 1:3
Jesus abides forever - Heb. 7:24
Jesus created all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17
Jesus is before all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:17;
Jesus is eternal - John 1:1,14; 8:58; Micah 5:1-2
Jesus is honored the same as the Father - John 5:23
Jesus is prayed to - Acts 7:55-60; 1 Cor. 1:2 with Psalm 116:41; (John 14:14)
Jesus is worshipped - Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6
Jesus is omnipresent - Matt. 18:20; 28:20
Jesus is with us always - Matt. 28:20
Jesus is our only mediator between God and ourselves - 1 Tim. 2:5
Jesus is the guarantee of a better covenant - Heb. 7:22; 8:6
Jesus said, "I AM the Bread of Life" - John 6:35,41,48,51
Jesus said, "I AM the Door" - John 10:7,9
Jesus said, "I AM the Good Shepherd" - John 10:11,14
Jesus said, "I AM the Way the Truth and The Life" - John 14:6
Jesus said, "I AM the Light of the world" - John 8:12; 9:5; 12:46; Luke 2:32
Jesus said, "I AM the True Vine" - John 15:1,5
Jesus said, "I AM the Resurrection and the Life" - John 11:25
Jesus said, "I AM the First and the Last" - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13
Jesus always lives to make intercession for us - Heb. 7:25
Jesus cleanses from sin - 1 John 1:9
Jesus cleanses us from our sins by His blood - Rev. 1:5; Rom. 5:9
Jesus forgives sins - Matt. 9:1-7; Luke 5:20; 7:48
Jesus saves forever - Matt. 18:11; John 10:28; Heb. 7:25
Jesus discloses Himself to us - John 14:21
Jesus draws all men to Himself - John 12:32
Jesus gives eternal life - John 10:28; 5:40
Jesus resurrects - John 5:39; 6:40,44,54; 11:25-26
Jesus gives joy - John 15:11
Jesus gives peace - John 14:27
Jesus has all authority - Matt. 28:18; John 5:26-27; 17:2; 3:35
Jesus judges - John 5:22,27
Jesus knows all men - John 16:30; John 21:17
Jesus opens the mind to understand scripture - Luke 24:45
Jesus received honor and glory from the Father - 1 Pet. 1:17
Jesus reveals grace and truth - John 1:17 see John 6:45
Jesus reveals the Father - Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22
Jesus bears witness of Himself - John 8:18; 14:6
Jesus' works bear witness of Himself - John 5:36; 10:25
The Father bears witness of Jesus - John 5:37; 8:18; 1 John 5:9
The Holy Spirit bears witness of Jesus - John 15:26
The multitudes bear witness of Jesus - John 12:17
The Prophets bear witness of Jesus - Acts 10:43
The Scriptures bear witness of Jesus - John 5:39
The Father will honor us if we serve Jesus - John 12:26 see Col. 3:24
The Father wants us to fellowship with Jesus - 1 Cor. 1:9
The Father tells us to listen to Jesus - Luke 9:35; Matt. 17:5
Everyone who's heard & learned from the Father comes to Jesus - John 6:45
We come to Jesus - John 5:50; 6:35,37,45,65; 7:37;
The Father draws us to Jesus - John 6:44
The Law leads us to Christ - Gal. 3:24
Jesus is the Rock - 1 Cor. 10:4
Jesus is the Savior - John 4:42; 1 John 4:14
Jesus is the King - Matt. 2:1-6; Luke 23:3
In Jesus are the treasures of wisdom and knowledge - Col. 2:2-3
In Jesus we have been made complete Col. 2:10
Jesus indwells us - Col. 1:27
Jesus sanctifies - Heb. 2:11
Jesus loves - Eph. 5:25
We sin against Jesus - 1 Cor. 8:12
We receive Jesus - John 1:12; Col. 2:6
Jesus makes many righteous - Rom. 5:19
Jesus sends the Holy Spirit - John 15:26
Jesus offered up Himself - Heb. 7:27; 9:14
Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins for all time - Heb. 10:12
The Son of God has given us understanding - 1 John 5:20
Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith - Heb. 12:2
Jesus is the Apostle and High Priest of our confession - Heb. 1:3
Jesus is preparing a place for us in heaven - John 14:1-4
Jesus is the Light of the world - Rom. 9:5
Jesus has explained the Father - John 1:18
Jesus was crucified because of weakness - 2 Cor. 13:4
Jesus has overcome the world - John 16:33
Truth is in Jesus - Eph. 4:21
The fruit of righteousness comes through Jesus Christ - Phil. 1:11
Jesus delivers us from the wrath to come - 1 Thess. 1:10
Disciples bear witness of Jesus Christ - John 15:27
Jesus died for us - 1 Thess. 5:10
Jesus died and rose again - 1 Thess. 4:14
Jesus was a ransom for many - Matt. 20:28
The Christian dead have fallen asleep in Jesus - 1 Thess. 4:15
Jesus tasted death for everyone - Heb. 2:9
Jesus rendered the devil powerless - Heb. 2:14
Jesus is able to save completely - Heb. 7:25
Jesus came to serve - Matt. 20:28
Jesus came to be a high priest - Heb. 2:17
Jesus came to save - John 3:17; Luke 19:10
Jesus came to preach the kingdom of God - Luke 4:43
Jesus came to bring division - Luke 12:51
Jesus came to do the will of the Father - John 6:38
Jesus came to give the Father's words - John 17:8
Jesus came to testify to the truth - John 18:37
Jesus came to die and destroy Satan's power - Heb. 2:14
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets - Matt. 5:17
Jesus came to give life - John 10:10,28
Jesus came to taste death for everyone - Heb. 2:9
Jesus came to proclaim freedom for believers - Luke 4:18
From CARM

100 Truths About Jesus



-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), February 26, 2004

Answers

Hey, David

I am doing jury service this week and next.

While I finish preparing a response, so far I am on #9,

Take a look at this refutation of the trinity by .The Christadelphians on The Trinity

The Jehovah's Witnessess, assemblies of Yahweh, The Worldwide Church of God (before they went ecumenical in the 1990s), and the Christadelphians are some of the non-trinitarian groups with whom I share ideas since 1974.

The Christian Yahwist

PS: I often wonder why Jesus appeared to me that day, July 23, 2000, told me Catholics only call him when they are in trouble.

He told me It wasn't going to rain hard for 3 years. This came true in October 2003, 3 years later.

Probably you saw or read that there were fires in the SanBernardino Mountains and San Gabriel mountains. This is the area of Los Angeles and San Bernardino where I have lived for more than 20 years.

The fires could not be put out until it began to rain.

It rained so hard that several people died by the mudslides created since there was no vegetation left in place.

We just had another strong storm on Thursday.

It just proved to me that Jesus had not abandoned me altogether.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 27, 2004.


Elp

more sly little anti-Catholic digs.

if Catholics only call on Jesus when they are in trouble, they must get in trouble every Sunday and other Holy Day of Obligation. quite a coincidence really.

and the Pope must be in real trouble everyday.

i am of course surprised that "Jesus" appeared to you, the mere man who you spend most of your time attacking here.

Jesus is God and anyone who does not believe that is not Christian.

May the Blessed Virgin, Queen of Heaven and Earth, Mother of Mercy, Most Gracious Advocate, pray that your eyes are opened.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 28, 2004.


Great work, David! To which Catholics shout a big AMEN!

Elpidio, how do you know it was Jesus who appeared to you and not a demon disguised as an angel of light?

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 29, 2004.


Gail, I am not the only one to whom Jesus has talked, Besides all the Marian apparitions. As a Catholic you know that by now.

I was, or still considered myself a Catholic when he spoke to me. Not that people thought I was a Catholic.

I am not the only one from my family to see , hear, visions or dreams of God, Jesus, Mary, or the Evil one.

My wife and me have talked to Yahweh, our God:2000(July October), 2003 (December).

My Wife, my mother, and myself talked to Jesus: 1985, 1999, 2000 (July, August), 2002

My Mom, my sister, my wife have talked to Mary: 1985, 1989,1990,1991,..

My brother has taked to the Evil one.

We all have heard voices of angels: Me, my wife, my son, my daughter, my mom, my 2 brothers, my sister.

I just happened to be the one who publishes. They don't like the spotlight.

Actually, my mom was rthe first. She is even better than me. In 1985 Jesyus told her to pray for us. She was told that if she did, as long as she lived, we would be alive(her children). We are still alive even though we have been close to death.

My mom dreamed about Monica Lewinski's scandal in Dec 1994. President Clinton knew about it since 1995.

My mom dreamed 9/11, Bin Laden and company in late August 2001, the destruction of the Roman Catholic Church in 2002,...

Of 9/11 and Bin Laden President Bush knows.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 01, 2004.


up.

David has earned an answer.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 08, 2004.



Man of Yahwist, or Son of Yahweh, or howsoever you now style yourself -- you now have to start earning that self-centric, haloistic accolade.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), March 08, 2004.

Rod, Jim, Ian, when I was catholic:

At this Church I became a leader, and also worked there: 1983-1990. The priests there were very helpful. I learned a lot from them. Father Bruce, Father Frank, Father John, Father Gabriel,...

Our Lady of Victory

This Church was close to another house I lived. The Bush Family (George, Jr,..lived about 3 blocks from this Church around 1949. Both became Presidents of the United States.

At this other Church I met Father Shanley around 1998. I sensed something when he was retiring I asked to bless my children. He at first didn't want to. Then He did. I will never forget his expression.

He later was arrested in San Diego for Child molestation.

Saint Anne's Church

It was close to my house.

That was one of 2 houses where God has spoken to me (October 2000).

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 24, 2004.


Again, I don’t want people to get the impression that I am putting Jesus down as our Christ or Messiah.  Neither I am putting down his mission.  Nor  am I trying to erase Jesus message. What I am trying to get across is that Jesus is not Yahweh.

After each post if you want to contradict what I wrote go ahead. I don’t like refuting since to refute means the other side was either shut up or quieted down.

God’s name appears close to 7000 as Yahweh or Yah. It also appears as part of names as Isaiah (Yesha YAHU), Jeremiah (YirmiYAHU), John (YEHOhanan)Quotes are from Blue Bible or RSV. I changed Lord to Yahweh.

1) Jesus claimed to be God - John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14); John 10:30-33
John 8:24: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins. Jesus is speaking about being the messiah or Christ, John 4:25 –26.

John 8:56-59 (see 58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. We exist in God’s mind. See Jeremiah 1:5. Before I formed you in the womb I knew you (RSV). Does this mean Jeremiah is the Christ? Of course not. Judges 13:3 says this about Samson, “Behold you are barren and have no children; but you shall conceive a bear a son.” (RSV) Is Samson the Christ? Of course not. Also Isaac Genesis 18:12.

What about John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. Doesn’t this prove Jesus is God Yahweh? No. John 10:38 states But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him. 39) Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

Jesus is discussing his works (miracles) as coming from God Yahweh, not from a demon. (See John 10:21 Others said, these are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

In John 8:28, 8:48, 8:29,18:38 Jesus calls God father, 8:28 Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

 Verse 15 says Yahweh is God’s name when we talk about him.

Ex 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM (Hebrew Eheyeh asher eheyeh-I will be who I will be, Greek ego eimi ho on- I am who is): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM (Eheyeh) hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, 15) Yahweh God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this [is] my name for ever, and this [is] my memorial unto all generations.

Further proof God’s name is Yahweh is Ex 6:2 And God spoke unto Moses, and said unto him, I [am] Yahweh: And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God (El) Almighty (Shaddai), but by my name Yahweh was I not known to them.

It would sound awkward to say I am I am for I am Yahweh.

Jesus calls God Yahweh his father and his God, thus, he cannot be God. John 20:17  Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh



-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

Why do you think the Jews reacted like this?

Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

The answer is that they knew what He was claiming. He was claiming to be God.

Who did Jesus himself, claim to be?

Jehovah or, more properly, Yahweh is the special name given by God for himself. In the Hebrew Old Testament, it is written simply as four letters (YHWH) and was considered so holy that a devout Jew would not pronounce it. Those who wrote it would perform a special ceremony first. It is the name revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14., when God said, "I Am Who I AM." The meaning of the name has to do with God's self-existence.

Yahweh is only used to refer to the one true God. Nothing else was to be worshiped or served (Ex. 20:5) and his name or glory were not to be given to another. Isaiah wrote:

"Thus saith [Yahweh]...I am the First and I am the Last; and beside me there is no God. "I am [Yahweh], that is my name; and my glory I will not give to another, neither My praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

It is no wonder that the Jews picked up some stones and accused Jesus of Blasphemy when He claimed to be Jehovah.

Jesus said, "I am the good shepherd" (John 10:11)., but the Old Testament says "Yahweh is my shepherd" (Psalm 23:1).

Jesus claimed to be the judge of all men (Matt 25:31, John 5:27), but I find that the prophet Joel quotes Yahweh as saying, "For there I will sit to judge all surrounding nations" (Joel 3:12).

Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify Me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5)., But Yahweh of the Old Testament said, "I will not give my glory to another" (Isaiah 42:8). But we see in Scripture that God/Yahweh offers all His glory to Jesus.

Jesus also speaks of himself as the "Bridegroom" (MATT. 25:1) while the Old Testament identifies Yahweh in this way (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16).

The risen Christ says, "I am the first and the last" (Rev 1:17)-- precisely the words used by Yahweh in Isaiah 42:28.

While the Psalmist declares, "[Yahweh] is my light' (Psalm 27:1), Jesus says, "I am the light of the world" (John 8:12).

I find the strongest claim that Jesus makes to being God is in John 8 verse 58 where He says: "Before Abraham was born, I Am."

In my opinion, Jesus was either "guilty" as the Jews charged--of blasphemy, or He "is" who He claimed to be.

He clearly claimed to be God from what I can tell. I do not see how we can say Jesus was a created being, or an angel/other lesser god, in light of what he said.

If he is only a created being or an angel or lesser god-- or prophet-- then He would be a liar because he claimed equality with God, and no created being or angel has equality with God. Why would we want to follow a liar?

The Jews around Him clearly understood His meaning and picked up stones to kill Him for blaspheming. (John 8:58; 10:31-33).

Jesus also claimed to be equal with God in other ways as well. He not only assumed the titles of Deity, but He claimed for Himself the perogatives of God.

He said to a parylitic, "My son, your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5) The scribes responded with, "Who can forgive sins but God alone?" So, to offer proof that what He says is not an empty boast, He healed the man, in by offering proof that what He says is trustworthy and true.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 02, 2004.


I should add that I am not sure of the author of some of my information above. So *author unknown*....just to keep Gail calm.

I pulled this from some old research I was doing when I was entertaining Jehovah Witnesses in my home.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 02, 2004.



 

Question 2) Jesus is called God - John 1:1,14; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. In Hebrew word is dabar. When God Yahweh speak to Moses he says: Ve yedaber (literally: worded) Yahweh el moshe  (and Spoke or said Yahweh to Moses), see Lev 15:1, 16:1,17:1,18:1,19:1, See also Genesis when God says, and let there be light…

So when God Yahweh speaks his word, things happen. That is why Jesus already existed in God Yahweh’s mind. God Yahweh doesn’t want people to be lost, so he sends someone that will show them the way to him. The word logos (word) also mean mind and so on. If Jesus was truly God Yahweh, then John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].  Will make no sense if some one has seen God. How could Jesus be in the bosom (belly) of God Yahweh is he is Yahweh?

Also how can Jesus be God’s only begotten?  God cannot beget God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 20:28 seems to imply Jesus is God the Father according to Trinitarians, And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. But they ignore verse 17 where Jesus himself calls God Yahweh his father and his God. Jesus says John 20:17 touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

Not only does Jesus deny he is the father and God Yahweh himself, so does Peter too. Peter calls Jesus a man of God.

Acts 2:22 men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

He also calls Jesus a prophet Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall Yahweh your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Doesn’t then God Yahweh live inside Jesus? Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Well, the same thing happened to Saul before he became king of Israel.

I Sam 10:6 And the Spirit of Yahweh will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

And to Jesus Mark 1:9-12. That is why the people of Nazareth were perplexed to find out that Jesus now could do miracles and so forth, Mark 6:2-4. Even his own family thought he had gone crazy. Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.

If your family thinks you are crazy, then you cannot be God Yahweh. Why, because Mary and her husband Joseph had been told Jesus was the Christ (Matthew 1, Luke 1)

Mary and Joseph were never told Jesus was God Yahweh. Neither was his brothers James (Jacob), Joseph, Simeon, Judas, and her sisters Salome (Shelomit) and Mary. (Mark 6:3, 16:1,John 7:5,)

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

PS:I will respond tomorrow, faith.



-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 02, 2004.

Elpidio..,

I've seen all this type of rhetoric before.

To be honest--your posts are unintelligible. No offense--but you do not do a good job explaining yourself. I only understand it because I have seen it before..

You are clearly listening to non-Christian apologetics.., perhaps even from Kingdom Hall's Watch Tower Society.

That you are spewing out such theology from other false prophets--[we know they are false because their prophecies died along with each founder from that cult] proves to me that you are not moved by anything but false teaching.

You didn't address any of my verses which prove that Jesus claimed divinity for Himself. You simply reposted your post which., like I said--requires more explanation on your end. Don't just copy and paste bits from some anti-Christian tract. Explain your conviction in light of the verses that refute the few you use to prove yourself.

You need to keep in mind that the Bible is in complete harmony with itself when you allow it to speak, rather than listening to people like the Jehovah Witnesses or the Mormons., both who reject Christ.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 03, 2004.


Actually, faith,

The bible as we have it today also has contradictions,of which I will discuss later,..

mistranlations Examples: virgin in Isaiah 7:14 for almah when virgin is betulah in Hebrew.Matthew at 1:23 chose the wrong translation. That is why most people think Jesus was born out of a virgin.locusts (grasshoppers) for John the baptist food instead of carob fruit at Mark 1:6. At revelation 19:16 Jesus has his name on the robe and on the leg. Jewish people cannot tatoo their bodies. In Hebrew leg is regel and banner is degel. r and d are almost written the same,it's like writing 6 and b in English. So it should be read banner, which makes more sense. Camel(kamelos) instead of rope(kamilos) or thread where it says it is easier for a camel(kamelos) to go throught he eye of a needle Mt 19:23. People make thread go through needles, not camels!!!

misapplication of prophecies (in Matthew mostly)....Isaiah 7:14 is the most famous. for Jesus birth. Actually it refers to King Hezekiah!!!

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


As for the word logos in Greek=Dabar in Hebrew= Word in English, it is also found in I John 1:2 where it is called the logos of life. It states it was with the father. But verse 4 states that that God is the father and Jesus Christ is the Son.Also I John 4:11 states no one has ever seen God

There is another place, at Revelation 20:4 where logos:logon tou theou (word of God) is used. This will clarify people's interpretation better.

From Blue Bible: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands

The Jewish expression word of God, Greek logos tou theou , means that God Yahweh brings a message to certain people. That is why the prophets always say: the Word of Yahweh came to me , saying....That is why God Yahweh's word is divine since it proceeds from him!!!!

In Greek Theos is God, Theios is divine. Both words are written the same, the i being a subscript.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


Gobledygook Elpidio...

Do you even know what you are posting?

It makes no sense at all--I can't even refute what I can't decifer...

You have a cut-up of a cut and paste from where? What is your source?

You are not even using complete sentences...

And you pile on the crap so that who could keep up?

Try starting with one clear claim where *you* see a contradiction? And then prove it.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 03, 2004.



That's the type of answer I get faith when people realize they have been shown that certain passages show Jesus is not God.

You cannot handle the fact that by using the same section (Chapter, or passage)the Trinitarians use to show Jesus is God Yahweh I can also show Jesus is not God Yahweh.

Like when in the same section I showed that the word was God as used by Trinitarians, I showed no one has seen God (John 1). In the same section in Ch. 20 Thomas says my Lord and my God, I show Jesus saying that he is going to his father and his God. He didn't have to go faith if he is God Yahweh!!! He was already there.

Trinitarians quote verses which support their , ignore what could destroy their perceived notion of who Jesus is.

I look at the entire section. Two rights don't make a wrong neither two wrongs make a right. But if there is a right and a wrong, then one can quote other passages to clarify it, provide it comes from the same New Testament theological group.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


Second part to #2) Jesus is called God

Trinitarians quote Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. To show God is inside Jesus. But Yahweh also dwells inside others as Revelation 21:4 states: And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. (Blue Bible) Jeremiah experienced the same type of in dwelling from Yahweh. Jer 1:8 Do not be afraid but I will be with you (NIV) Every prophet of God Yahweh has God Yahweh coming inside of them to have his word proclaimed. We call the God’s Holy Spirit now.

Another verse used is Hebrews 1:8 to show Jesus is God. But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness [is] the scepter of thy kingdom(Blue Bible). That is an atrocious mistranslation and misapplication of scripture. It is taken from Psalm 45. It is totally out of context. First it says the psalm is composed for a king verses 1-5. Verse 6 uses the Septuagint to say your throne of God, but not Hebrew. Verse 6: Thy throne given of God is forever and ever; a scepter of equity is the scepter of thy kingdom. See http://www.mechon- mamre.org/p/pt/pt2645.htm

This King has many women as wives. V.9. Verse 16 speaks of the sons the king has. In Hebrew is v. 17. So if this passage is about Jesus, then Jesus also had many wives and several children!!!!

And if someone tries to argue about whether the throne is forever and kings die too quickly, then look at Samuel 7:13, 16 where David’s kingdom is established forever. 2 Sam 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever (Blue Bible)

Then we have Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ where it supposedly states Jesus is God also. But the passage speaks about God and about Jesus, two entities, not one.

End of question 2.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


Question 3) Jesus is the image of the invisible God - Heb. 1:3

God Yahweh also created Adam (Man)and Eve(woman) Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created them Even though they were in his image , Yet no one claims they are God himself.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


Question #4)Jesus abides forever - Heb. 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. (Blue Bible)

Well, the Hebrew word Olam not necessarily means forever. The apostle Paul states that after th final resurrection, the Son, Jesus, will be subjected to the father. So then, the priesthood will end.

I Corinthians 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


Question 5) Jesus created all things - John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15- 17

Col 1:15-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:3and 10 were copied from I John 1.

The following verse doesn't say Jesus created the universe. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

The following one in the same passage show Jesus is the son, not the Father. .... verse 4:3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

You will never find the name Jesus in Genesis as saying he created the World!!!!

Instead, you find the word Yahweh at Genesis 2:4 These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that God Yahweh made the earth and the heavens

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.


The only thing you show Elpidio is that you are following the Watch Tower from Kingdom Hall.

Your points are intelligible. You show nothing true at all. I can't understand you.

From what little I can grab onto--I can see the false understanding.

Let's just start with this:

Like when in the same section I showed that the word was God as used by Trinitarians, I showed no one has seen God (John 1). In the same section in Ch. 20 Thomas says my Lord and my God, I show Jesus saying that he is going to his father and his God. He didn't have to go faith if he is God Yahweh!!! He was already there.

This is ridiculous. First of all--when God became flesh--he is here as Jesus in the flesh--not God in Heaven. Jesus even says that He is going to leave this place soon and we should be glad because the Father is greater than He. In other words., when He ascends into heaven He is greater than He is here on earth as Jesus.

As Jesus--God humbled Himself and took on the human nature--thereby limiting Himself in as Jesus. There were some things that He even would not know. He did not know the hour or the day of His return, for example.

Philippians 2:5-11

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

Therefore God exhalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He often reminds us that He and the Father are One--and that in a sense--we have seen God because we know Him.

John 14:6-

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

Jesus answered:

"Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, "Show us the Father?"

To me--this is revelation. Philip is saying, "Show me the Father...and the Father blurts into the scene and says, "Don't you know me Philip? I have been among you all this time!!"

I mean--Hello?

Three distinct and separate persons that equal One. When Jesus leaves- -he sends His Spirit, which Scripture reveals is also God:

I find that Scripture clearly reveals that the Holy Spirit is God. For example, when Ananias and his wife Sapphira lied to the apostles in (Acts 5:1-4), Peter said;

"Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?...you have not lied to men but to God".

In lying to the Holy Spirit, Ananias lied to God-- according to God's own Word.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 03, 2004.


Phillians 2:6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped

Very nature not in Greek Bible, faith.

Greek says who existing in (the) form of God, not (something) understood did not regard equality with God.

We know that Adam and Eve were created in God'(genesis 1:27) image. So they existed in the form (morphe) of God. But just like Adam and Eve realized they could never be like God Yahweh (Genesis 3:4,19; neither can Jesus. That is why it says (Jesus)did not regard equality with God.

As for the case of show us the father by Phillip, on Verse 20, Jesus not only says he is in the Father, but he is with his disciples , and they are with him.John 14:20At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Does this make his disciples God too? Of course not!!!

The Christian Yahwist



-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 03, 2004.

And this Elpidio>>>

Trinitarians quote Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. To show God is inside Jesus. But Yahweh also dwells inside others as Revelation 21:4 states: And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. (Blue Bible) Jeremiah experienced the same type of in dwelling from Yahweh. Jer 1:8 Do not be afraid but I will be with you (NIV) Every prophet of God Yahweh has God Yahweh coming inside of them to have his word proclaimed. We call the God’s Holy Spirit now.

There is a difference between having the full Godhead indwelling you and having the Spirit of God with you. Dwelling among and indwelling seem to be very different things.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 03, 2004.


Elpidio..,

You are the one who said that a theory needs support from other Scripture.

Taken as a whole--we can see that Jesus indeed claims His divinity.

Jesus does not come to the same realization as Adam and Eve.Jesus says otherwise:

John 10:24-30

The Jews gathered around him saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many miracles from the Father. For which one of these do you stone me?"

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 03, 2004.


As you can see faith, the question is on Jesus being the Christ (Messiah) not on being God Yahweh, for whom Jesus still emplysa the word Father (Abba).

The Jews gathered around him saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my father's name speak for me

There is no record in the other Gospels or Paul that the Jews tried to stone Jesus for blasphemy before his final passover.

I do believe this comes from the trial Jesus had to endure at the hands of the High Priest, before he was sent to Pilate.

John has aproblem of putting miracles,other passages, out of place or chronological order. For example Jesus entry into Jerusalem happens first at John, but almost last in Mark and the others. Jesus would not question the authority of his Jewish enemies at the beginning of his ministry. That could have been political and religious suicide. He had to wait the right time and moment.

Another which is the catch of fish that appears as a post - resurrection episode is actually Luke's catch of fish at the begining of Jesus ministry.

The Blind man of John is Bartimaeus in Mark, and the two blind men of Matthew. The paralytic of Jerusalem is the one from Caperneum in Mark. Lazarus in John is the son of the widow of Nain in Luke, and the young Man of Mark whose clothes drop to the ground (and the Young man of Secret Mark). The list goes on.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 08, 2004.


Oh..so Elpidio--you mean that someone other than God can forgive sin., and grant eternal life?

-- (Faith01@myway.com"), September 08, 2004.

Well, faith, I grew up Catholic. I used to confess my sins to a priest who gave me absolution. And he wasn't Jesus!!! So the forgiveness doesn't bother me as much as it does Protestants and Catholics.

Jewish priests also forgave sins in the name of Yahweh when they sacrified the animals. They transferred the sins of the people intio the animals.

What matters is that I am at peace with Yahweh. He is tougher than Jesus, faith. Tough enough that not even poor Moses could enter the promised land. Tough enough to get rid of Saul's kingship and Eli's priesthood, the the Zadok line still extant in Jesus days. Tough enough to let Aaron know his time was up and for Elijah too. Tough enough to ask Jeremiah not to marry, for Hoshea to marry a woman who would play the harlot. Tough enough to ask men to sacrifice their life if caught saying bad stuff to kings,... like Nathan, like Miquaiah, like Jremiah, like John the Baptist,....Jesus,...James, Peter, James jesus brother,Paul...

While being more lenient towards those who have no mission from him. Eli said it better: he is Yahweh, he knows what is best.

The Christian Yahwist

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), September 08, 2004.


Well Elpidio--

Unlike you., I rely on God's Word to answer these questions.

Who is speaking in these verses?

Revelation 1:8 "I am the Alpha and Omega," says the Lord God, "Who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Revelation 21:5-7 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and Omega, the begining and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

Revelation 22:13 "I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Begining and the End."

Are the above verses spoken by Jehovah?

Consider these:

The First and the Last: Isaiah 41:4--"Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the begining? I, the LORD--with the first of them and with the last--I am He.

Isaiah 44:6--"This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the First and the Last; apart from me, there is no God.

Is this Jehovah God speaking??

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 08, 2004.


Can you answer this Elpidio?

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), September 10, 2004.

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