For all the Republicans on AME-Today

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For all the Repbublicans on AME Today, here is an article I thought you would be interested in. It came from Fox News. (I will withhold my comments.)

NORFOLK, Va. Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson (search) said Friday he believes God has told him President Bush will be re-elected in a "blowout" in November. "I think George Bush is going to win in a walk," Robertson said on his "700 Club" program on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network (search), which he founded. "I really believe I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election in 2004. It's shaping up that way."

Robertson told viewers he spent several days in prayer at the end of 2003.

"The Lord has just blessed him," Robertson said of Bush. "I mean, he could make terrible mistakes and comes out of it. It doesn't make any difference what he does, good or bad, God picks him up because he's a man of prayer and God's blessing him."

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, a frequent Robertson critic and executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State (search), said he had a prediction of his own: "Pat Robertson in 2004 will continue to use his multimillion broadcasting empire to promote George Bush and other Republican candidates."

In a reference to Bush's political adviser, Lynn said, "Maybe Pat got a message from Karl Rove (search) and thought it was from God."

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2004

Answers

I don't agree with everything Pat Robertson says, but in this case I'll take it.

My wife once appeared on his show. While he was praying on TV he got a word of knowlege that someone was being healed right then of a dental problem. My wife needed a root canal we couldn't afford, and was suffering a lot of pain especially when she drank liquid.

Next thing you know her tooth had miraculously healed, and she called the show to tell them. They came out with a crew and did a feature on her.

Bro Robertson may have actually heard from the Lord. Of course he also may have just looked at what's shaping up: Howard Dean is the leader, and is way left of center. I heard one commentator say the Democrats are offering the worst qualities of George McGovern and Walter Mondale this time around. Remember how well they did.

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2004


Bro. Robertson was obviously listening to someone else when he ran for president then, :P

I'm glad he listens to the Lord now.

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2004


Mary -

Now why won't you provide commentary? Afterall, I just on yesterday presented you with the 2003 Fisher for best commentary for an AME Today contributor :-) As far as Rev. Robertson goes, he is jsut as entitled to make his communications with God public as any other political preacher. Rev. Jesse Jackson, Rev. Al Shaprton and PBS commentator Bill Moyers (son of a Southern Baptist Pastor) have all made comments about God being displeased with the GOP so what makes Robertson so different? This is why I am oppossed to bringing in God with political discussions because Yawheh is non-partisan, yet you would never know that from listening to sermons from our AME or black Baptist pulpits. By the way, why did CNN fire Rev. Jackson from his popular show "Both Sides"? QED

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2004


"This is why I am oppossed to bringing in God with political discussions because Yawheh is non-partisan, yet you would never know that from listening to sermons from our AME or black Baptist pulpits. By the way, why did CNN fire Rev. Jackson from his popular show "Both Sides"? "

For the most part we do agree on this topic, God is non-partisan. He will always be on His side which is the right side. We must find HIS side and stick with Him. But again, do not limit yourselves to the Black preachers. White preachers do the same. Check out Coral Ridges (Florida) on Sunday morning. It is totally George Bush, Republican Party down the line. I hope their congregation has time for Jesus when they worship.

-- Anonymous, January 03, 2004


Amen Mary and don't forget, Dr. James Dobson, and the numerous white christian conservative forums that litter the airwaves each day.

-- Anonymous, January 04, 2004


I have previously acknowldged my concerned with the inappropriate reference to God & politics for both white and black churches. As a resident of Florida for almost ten years I am familiar with the ministry of Dr. Kennedy and other Southern pastors who articulate a partisan (GOP-leaning) influence. This practice is objectionable as well. The primary difference is my Christian experience in the US is with black churches. Many of our mainstream black churches are explicitly partisan in their pulpit politics to the extent that a strong case can be made that such actions rightfully warrant the IRS revoking their tax-exempt status. Citing similar absuses from white churches while important only serves as a distraction since the abuse in black pulpits remains unchecked. In many ways this problem is errily similar to the problem of sexual harrassment initiated by some incorrigible black clergy. For many years the congregation knew of such abuses but failed to act because of the silly rationale of not wanting to jeapordize the career of a particular minister and as a result black churches tacitly condoned the practice and justified it under a policy of silence. Now, years later with the increase of lawsuits, we have belatedly reacted with specific sanctions, although the problem has not totally been eliminated. If this problem of inappropriately using politics from the pulpit continues in some of our black pulpits we are headed for a similar outcome. Now, since the last two thoughtful replies failed to address my previous question let me ask it again. Why was Rev. Jesse Jackson's CNN program "Both Sides" cancelled? QED

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004

I cannot take this any longer. How long are you people going to continue bash real men like RP and D. James Kennedy. I have never posted on this board but now I feel that I must a statement. Everything RP says is true about the Negro race. Many of you are genetically inferior evidenced by the low test scores and any number of objective scientists. Your religion is a poor copy of what our ancestors tried to instill your ancestors who if you were to ask them would tell you that in many ways slavery was beneficial to them.

I hope that I am not offending any of you by stating the truth for if you know the truth you are free. I am glad that there are men like Bill Dickens and Alton Paris on this board who are trying to lead their people to a better moral understanding. I am glad that they stand with us against the liberal tirade that infiltrates this discussion community.

Finally, I have to say something to those who want to be open and affirming or homosexual friendly, you need to face it You are gay. I am sure that Harold Gibson and others are gay because they always defends them.

I was very offended by Gibson's lack of deference to our President. This country has been MORE than fair to the Negro race and it would be nice if more of you would show some appreciation by cutting down on the crimes you commit and start taking care of your own children.

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004


Ralph opines -

"Everything RP says is true about the Negro race. Many of you are genetically inferior evidenced by the low test scores and any number of objective scientists. Your religion is a poor copy of what our ancestors tried to instill your ancestors who if you were to ask them would tell you that in many ways slavery was beneficial to them."

A few comments and corrections are in order. First, everything RP says about the 'Negro' race is NOT true. Unless I have missed something over the past 2-3 years RP has essentially offered opinions based not so much on original research and thinking but widely accpeted popular views which many have been rejected by the rigour of empirical analysis. Second, the psedo-science of eugenics (apologists for racial inferiority) has been largely discredited by experienced scientists. The distinguished late Professor of Paleontology @ Harvard, Stephen J. Gould, pretty much exposed the specious reasoning in eugenics research with his path-breaking work, The Mis-Measure of Man. I am unaware of any reputable scientist who believes in the orthodox version of eugenics. Even the co-author of the much maligned book, 'The Bell Curve', Charles Murray is not a eugenicist. Third, while I respect your right to make dissenting and even offensive comments, I categorically reject your notion that the religion of my ancestors represents a poor copy of the purity of Christianity. Since my ancestors are not present to defend themselves, I will humbly yet gladly assume this noble responsibility. If anything, given the obvious theological hypocrisy of Christianity practiced during the ante-Bellum priod of American history, it would be correct to say that the African in America creatively, intellectually, spiritually and morally rescued and rehabilitated the morally defunct aspects of Christianity through its (white version) tacit endorsement of racial inequality, bigotry and human deprivation repesented in the peculiar institution called slavery. My ancestors from Cameroon, Ghana and Coite'd Voire were indispensable in the growth and development of Christianity and the real liberating message of Jesus. Finally, I am proud to speak on behalf of my Brother Harold Gibson. Lord knows he doesn't need my help since he is perfectly capable of doing this soley by himself. Brother Gibson is the best kind of friend. He holds no punches and calls it like he sees it. I have been the object of his scathing editorials but I take it in stride because I know fundamentally we are seeking the same destination just using different modes of travel. We simply agree to disagree without being disagreeable. He has indicated on many occassions in the past that he is not gay or homosexual so this particular tirade is unnecessary. I recognize my personal polemics are against the grain among my fellow black brothers and sisters. However, just like they must get along with me and my idiosyncracies, I too must get along with them. This is especially so since I am greatly outnumbered but refuse to seek exile in some indifferent community consisting of closet white supremacists or white only apologists. QED

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004


While I appreciate being called a "real man" (scuze me while I do some Tim the Tool Man Taylor grunts), I don't recall commenting on genetics. I also don't think I've made any statements that applied to the entire black race.

Well, this real man's gotta go. It's time for supper and I need to kill a buffalo. The pack is hungry. Now where'd I leave my spear?

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004


You know brother Dickens many things have existed in all churches for most years without anything being said. Just look at the Catholic church and the problems they face now due to years of silence. Remember PTL and the minister who cried openly on TV stating "I have sinned." Behaviors are allowed in churches because people close their eyes and let it happen. When I was a young girl a minister made an inappropriate gesture toward me and my mother lit into him immediately and directly. She did not accept it and nipped it in the bud. I believe that is what is missing today.

Regarding political action in the church. That's interesting, because it was historically accepted in the AME Church since the civil war. How many of our clergy and members served in congress after Reconstruction as Republicans. In fact, they towed the Republican line until the Republicans took the African American vote foregranted as the Democrats now do. I think we need to evolve and hold our votes for the candidates who best serve the interest of our communities.

I have no problem with candidates having an open hour at a church to express their views to a congregation; however, it should be open to Democrats, Independents Libertarians, Republicans, and whomever else is out there.

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004



My first thought was that surely Ralph's post was a sad excuse for a joke but alas,that appears not to have been the case. Sad...very, very sad. As usual, your response. Professor Dickens, was eloquent and I might add, remarkably more restrained and civil than this...this...(okay, okay...I'm not going to even go there. I'm better than that)deserved. Yours in the joy of Jesus, Mike Barta

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004

Ralph, You can get my name out of your mouth. You do not understand what I post if you think that I agree with you. Your post is racist, but praise the Lord all of your ilk can do is talk. So speak for yourself and leave my name out of it. Of course if you get to Texas you are welcome to thank me personally.

Be Blessed

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004


By the way, Pat Robertson is an embarassment to the GOP. He is not a man of God but a professional telemarketer selling a product. I am a Republician and along with our president wish he would go away.

Be Blessed

-- Anonymous, January 05, 2004


"I cannot take this any longer. How long are you people going to continue bash real men like RP and D. James Kennedy. I have never posted on this board but now I feel that I must a statement. Everything RP says is true about the Negro race. Many of you are genetically inferior evidenced by the low test scores and any number of objective scientists. Your religion is a poor copy of what our ancestors tried to instill your ancestors who if you were to ask them would tell you that in many ways slavery was beneficial to them. I hope that I am not offending any of you by stating the truth for if you know the truth you are free. I am glad that there are men like Bill Dickens and Alton Paris on this board who are trying to lead their people to a better moral understanding. I am glad that they stand with us against the liberal tirade that infiltrates this discussion community.

If we are so inferior, then why do White Supremacists feel a need to harrass and torture us? Why does the KKK exist? Are they "afraid" of an inferior race? Why was it necessary during Slavery to feed the Black Man a substandard diet? Why would Massa be afraid of an inferior race?

As for me, I had a combined score of 1240 on my SATs, and graduated from UCLA. I have an MBA, and I teach Information Technology to working adults. Not bad for a member of an "inferior race".

Now, I'll make you a bet Ralph. Let me take your entire family, take them to Africa, and remove their culture, and their language, and their family structure. Let me take away their hope, and feed them substandard food. Let me rape your women, and hang your men. Let me do that for 400 years, and while I am doing that, let me enact laws that unless the Good Lord steps in, will keep them in this system forever (a combination of the one drop and 5 generation slave laws).

I dare any of your descendants, under that system, to do any better than my race has. I double dare you.

Slavery, as practiced in this country, was completely against God's laws. God told the slave masters to be kind to their slaves, and TO FREE THEM AFTER 7 years, something the Americans (excuse me, invaders) forgot when they got here.

Finally, I have to say something to those who want to be open and affirming or homosexual friendly, you need to face it You are gay. I am sure that Harold Gibson and others are gay because they always defends them.

So, by me being idiot-friendly, racist-friendly, I guess I am an idiot and a racist, huh?

I was very offended by Gibson's lack of deference to our President. This country has been MORE than fair to the Negro race and it would be nice if more of you would show some appreciation by cutting down on the crimes you commit and start taking care of your own children.

Dubya showed his face ONCE at our church after his election (I'm sorry, theft of the Presidency). He has yet to appear again. I respect him as the leader of this country, but respect only goes so far.



-- Anonymous, January 06, 2004

Wow this is getting out of hand.

To Ralph and his real man colleague RP:

Your opinion of African Americans is of no interest to me. Yet, just as I welcome my Same Gender Loving brothers and sisters to the Lord's table, I also welcome my intolerant brothers Ralph and his sidekick RP to the table. Why? Because I believe that once someone has a true encounter with the Lord, the old things are passed away, put aside and left behind and behold the only thing standing is a new creature whose sole desire is to bless the Lord.

Oh one more thing RP and trust me on this one: When I get to heaven, how you got there will not concern me at all, I will be too busy praising my Savior all the day long.

-- Anonymous, January 06, 2004



Harold, you said something there. It is not possible to be a racist and a Christian because you are a new creature. That was Paul, not God who told the masters to be kind to thier slaves. That was the Hebrews, not God who held the tradition of releasing slaves after seven years. This is another post: Dis God agree with everything that Paul wrote?

-- Anonymous, January 06, 2004

As I was reading the discussion board, I came across this interesting thread. I'm not sure if some of the comments are to be taken seriously or if they are made purely for shock value. Pat Robertson believeing George Bush will take the election because the Lord is blessing him is distrubing. The record shows Mr. Bush to be less than honest. He favors the rich while the poor die. He has no plan for adquate healthcare. His questionable connections with Haliburton ans no bid contracts is anything but, democratic. Mr. Bush is a man "blessed" with skin privilege that enabled him to be C student in college and drink away his early years. Just because the consequences of his manipulations and lies have not caught up with him doesn't mean the Lord is blessing George.

God allowed prosperity for the children of Isreal prior to the exile. There were false prophets then claiming nothing was wrong and nothing was going to happen. We live in a racist, sexist, bigoted country. This country is on the verge of judgement if the needs of the least of these continue to go unmet for the benefit of a privileged few.

I pray God will intervene and send a righteous person to the White House. As for the poor benighted soul with the racist and misinformed post, I pray God will enter your heart and open your eyes!!

-- Anonymous, January 06, 2004


Antonio, It is amazing to me how you can say such things about your president without giving a sliver of evidence. What does the Bible teach you about respect for your government? And those who govern? You and many others claim religion but bash President Bush about things they know not. The democrat party has so much negative rhetoric on the airwaves knowing full well it is not true. An example of this is Hillary Clinton and exVP Gore: They assert that Gore should be president since he won the popular vote. Being politions they know that the president is elected by the Electoral College (Which many of our people do not know). They also say the Supreme Court did not have the authority to rule in President Bush's favor, when VP Gore had a petition before the Supreme Court jimself seeking to be declared president. They say these things because people who do not read will pick up the refrain without knowing the truth.

Be Blessed

-- Anonymous, January 07, 2004


Come on Pastor Paris:

You came down kind of hard on Antonio and without good reason. He brought up issues that are on the hearts of minds of many confessing Christians. He has a biblical mandate to love justice and to speak against injustice he sees in his perception of the president's bias toward the wealthy. He has every right as citizen to question the letting of no bid contracts to a company that has very strong connections to the government. Antonio made no mention of his selection but he did question his right to criticize processes that take into consideration past discrimination when he has benefited from a system that always rewards those with certain economic advantages with privileges. Whether you agree or disagree with his opinion then I support your privilege to criticize his viewpoint without using the "Bible" as a sledgehammer to keep him silent in regard to the government.

And please give us the source from which you delivered that Hillary Clinton / Al Gore tirade. I would like to see it because I do not recall reading anything by them which does anything to attack the legitmatcy of the election because Bush did not win the popular vote. You are right any high school graduate who passed Government knows about the electoral college.

Now have a wonderful day.

-- Anonymous, January 07, 2004


President Clinton,"I did not have sex with that woman."

President Bush, "I never met the man." (Ken Lay of Enron)

Both Presidents lied but

President Bush lied about steel tariffs, WMDs, storage of radioactive material in the Yucca mountains, a quote about the "trifecta" of disasters effecting our economy. His lies are not just personal that is bad enough but his lies have effected the economy, nation defense, education, privacy and the trust of our nation. Take for example John Ashcroft who was appointed by President Bush for Attorney General. In the confirming process, Ashcroft said that he belived abortion was murder, yet he would uphold the law of the land. Tell me how can you believe that something is murder, against the word of God and still uphold it unless you have no real moral standard. How can you trust someone that is blantly hypocritcal. That is like Dr. King saying I believe segregation is wrong but since it is the law of the landI will abide by the rules. Who would have trusted him. The GOP are hypocrites. Take for example the the new Govenor of California. The GOP has always said they stand for principle. This govenor groped women, gang raped a black woman ( he says she was willing participant), participates in movies that glorifies violence, did drugs, said numerous racist remarks, and we now know is against the president's thoughts on immigration. The only reason they said they voted for him was because he was a fiscal conservative. For the GOP it is about money not principle. If it were about principle Pat Robinson and other GOP would examine the fruit that the Bush administration has produce. He is the first President that has seen an attack on US soil, the largest defict, record unemployment,record indictments of corporte execs, an army stretched from Africa to Asia, and record spending. If all these things had happen under Bill Clintons watch the Pat Robinsons of the world would have called Clinton the anti-Christ. Pat Robinson said that the reason 9/11 happen was because of gays in New York. Did you notice he never gave a reason why the hurricane hit Virginia where he lived. Pat Robinson has gold mines in Liberia and supported the former dictator. The Bush like have a history like Pat Robinson of supporting anyone that can bring them a profit. That is why you guys sound like the Epyptians magi who told Moses to stay out of politics or the southner white preachers that called Dr. King an aggitator. Politics and religion have and always will go hand and hand. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and other founding fathers belived that it was there duty to God and man to fight against a corrupt British goverment and there were plenty of clergy that fought in the revolutionary war. Abraham Lincoln made a decison mostly to save the union by freeing the slaves but he too had religious beliefs that thought slavery was wrong. These men were politicians and it was there religious convictions that informed their political decisions. Separation of church and state is a good theory but never has been practice. The reason "one nation under God" was place in the Pledge of Alligience was because the President did not want other secular nations to believe that our goverment was God-less. It was also a good political move. Adam Clayton Powell Jr. was a prime example of that religion and politics. What people of good concious of whatever politcal party must concentrate on is putting people in office that have a vision for what America can be. Programs like affirmative-action, legacy enrollment, vouchers vs. public education must all be looked at and modified so that they effect the masses positively. George Bush is not that man. The bible tells us that it is the "Love of money that is the root of all evil." George Bush and company have made decision after decision based on who gave money to their campaign. Haliburton, Rupert Murdoch, Bechtel, Boeing, are just a few of the major influences of the Bush cartel. Ex President Clinton was not the right man either. He based all his decision on which way the polls went. We must pray for and vote for the man or women that speaks to bringing this country together not dividing by the haves and the have nots. Pastors and preachers have the ability to inform their congregations on those men and women and they do a disservice if they don't. It is the courageous man an woman who risk their lives and who will risk having their none profit status taken away from them that will change America for the better. I am so glad preacher John Brown did not think like some of my brothers in the gospel who would even hint that the goverment should tell a pastor what to preach on. I guess free speech is only for those that toil the goverment line. If that is the case God help America.

-- Anonymous, January 08, 2004


There is an excellent work that critiques the growing edges of both the Republican and Democratic parties. It is "The Soul of Politics" by Jim Wallis. The driving idea in the book is that there is a more excellent way to ensure that "the least of these" are not forgotten or oppressed. Another work is the "Good Life" by Peter Gomes. Both authors take seriously the value of virtues while doing justice in a multicultural pluralistic context. Any idealogy which limits or uses the other in way which limits life is oppressive and not Biblical.

One of the ways God reveals God's self is through the pages of Holy Writ. The question becomes how is scripture interpreted and applied to daily living including politics. Make no mistake Jesus was a very shrewd politican when he read from the prophet Isaiah and said today this is fulfilled in your hearing. I love this stimulating conversation. Thanks for the feed back!!

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2004


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