[Please Note - Groups that insist One MUST be baptized in water in order to be saved/ or for remissions of sin: Church of Christ (denomination of), Christian Church (denomination of), Disciples of Christ (denomination of), Roman Catholics, Russian and Greek Orthodox, Mormons (LDS), Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), Apostolics (Jesus Only or United Pentecostals), Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, Lutherans, Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Episcopalians, etc.]

Questions: Does Baptism save? Or does the Bible teach salvation by faith alone?

Jesus Christ is God

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[Christ is either a Liar, Lord, or Lunatic]

Those who deny Christ (and who he claimed to be), will die in their sins.

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Comforting Words

John 20:30-31 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

What must I do to be saved?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Those are the VERY OWN WORDS of Jesus Christ!

Jesus DID NOT baptize anyone! ::gasp::

John 4:1-2 When therefore the LORD knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Again, Jesus does not mention anything about water baptism

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Will you believe Jesus Christ or Man-Made traditions?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

It's By Faith

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Jesus has the words of eternal life!

John 6:68-69 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

[No mention of water baptism]

Does belief remit sins?

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

We are born in sins

John 9:34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

But

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

[Water Baptism DOES NOT cleanse your sins]

Assurance of salvation

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Salvation only through Jesus Christ

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Now Kevin, as we did on the Book of Acts thread, try and prove your water dogma by staying in context in the book of John.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), December 26, 2003

Answers

It's funny...

I just tried tirelessly to resond to J.Fernandes on the Catholic site about this very topic.

Subject: Response to Funeral Mass

The Bible reveals that there is only one way to be born-again. It is the baptism of the heart. We must knowingly receive Christ into our hearts and believe that He died for us. We must receive this gift of eternal life through *faith.*

If your friend did not believe--then it doesn't matter that he was baptised in the flesh as a baby. That is just a symbolic ritual which is suppose to represent his faith and a spiritual truth. Personally, I can't understand how an infant can make that choice to follow Christ. I think that this is why infant baptism in the Catholic Church must be followed by all these sacraments and reminders to keep that child focused on Christ.

I find that the Bible's description of baptism is a different thing from what the Catholic Church teaches.

The important thing is to remember Christ and give yourself to him completely. In the end, we do come face to face with Jesus--and he will either say, "Depart from me, for I knew you not"--or he will welcome you into his kingdom. It is a heart thing between you and Jesus.

It doesn't sound like your friend knew Jesus very well--but only God has the answer and can actually judge accurately.

Notice the order of this verse:

"Whoever (1)believes and is (2)baptised will be saved. But whoever does not *believe* will be condemned." Mark 16:16

The key is clearly to believe ***************

But my post vanished! So I asked why?

Where did my post go?

Did my post really violate your rules? I wasn't aware that people cannot give their opinion-- if it doesn't agree with yours, Paul. I thought that you only deleted posts that were disrespectful or an attack on your Church or something. I don't think this post of mine qualifies as I made certain to include that it was my opinion, nothing more....

But that vanished too.

I wonder why??

Why is it so hard to believe that baptism is of the heart? And why is it so hard to understand that the water ritual is symbolic of the actual baptism that takes place spiritually?

All one has to do is look at the criminal who hung on the cross next to Jesus--the one who was saved by his faith in Christ. Surely we can agree that that man had never been baptised in the flesh.

Here is the original question asked: I recently went to a funeral mass for a friend who was catholic. Actually, he never professed to be much of a catholic and certaintly not a born-again, blood bought Christian. Yet the priest said he was now 'with God.' Almost as bad, friends got up and gave eulogies in which they told off-color jokes.

-- Joe Thornton (mrprotestant97@yahoo.com), December 24, 2003

In my opinion, infant baptism cannot save.

-- Faith (faith01@myway.com), December 26, 2003.

Oops...looks like I confused J. Fernandes with Joe Thorton...sorry about that!

-- (faith01@myway.com), December 26, 2003.

Yes Jeanie, In Spirit Baptism, God does the work.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), December 26, 2003.