I have a question- What is the difference between all the churches- Catholic, Prodistant, ect. Aren't they all based on Christ's teachings? Why can't we all rejoin and be known as His Church?

-- Curious (unavailable@thisisntreal.blah), December 10, 2003

Answers

No, they are not all based on Christ's teachings. The Church Christ founded, the Catholic Church, is based on His teachings. Other Christian churches are based on a mix of human interpretations of His teachings with new traditions of men. Christ never intended that there would be more than one Christian Church, and it is not possible that conflicting denominations could be based on His teachings. His teachings do not conflict with themselves.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 11, 2003.

Curious, The reason for the vast number of churches out there that call themselves Christian is because of the sinful nature of mankind. People are tempted towards power and glory. If you look into the history and see why and how these churches were formed you will see that in each case it was because of this lust to become more powerful (no matter how well intentioned the initial desire for 'reform' might have been). Of course, you can't continue to teach Christ's teachings fully and make yourself powerful at the same time, so people modified the teachings. Over the centuries modifications were added to modifications. Now, in some cases, we have churches which started out believing in Christ not even holding a firm belief in God (e.g., the Unitarian church). I would suggest if you really wish to understand the answer to your question, you read a good history on Christianity.

Some suggested reading: -The history of Christianity by Kenneth Scott Latourette -The Oxford History of the Christian Church; by Dr. Warren Carroll -Compact History of the Catholic Church and Catholic and Christian: An Explanation of Commonly Misunderstood Catholic Beliefs by Dr. Alan Schreck -Triumph, by H.W. Crocker III -Church History by Fr. John Laux

In Christ, Bill Nelson

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 11, 2003.

You can't continue to teach Christ's teachings and make yourself powerfull at the same time.

- If you study Catholic Church history in europe you'll notice that the Church sold indulginces to the aristocrats for large sums of money, so called "guaranteeing a ticket to Heaven." Also, those same people, Lords and Earls and Dukes etc, left the Catholic Church their lands when they passed away. At that time in history, he who had land had power. At some points the Catholic Church aquired so much power that She posessed more authority than the king himself. I may not be the smartest person in the world, nor do I proffess to be, but maybe because of the greed and coruption with-in the Catholic Church led to the creation of over 200,000 protestant churches.

-- S. Gisewhite (sharvin@acsworld.net), January 07, 2004.

Gisewhite,

What you say is true. Not the best moment in our history. But you must also remember that it was because of laypeople getting involved in the Church that it became so corrupt in the first place. The Church had power yes but it was still used by other politics. The Church in many unfortunate ways was just an extention of say the King of France, or some family in Italy.

But you must also look at what else was going on during that time. Look at some of the great people it produced. St. Francis, St. Clare, St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross. The list could go on and on and on.

Also what you might find very interesting is that the basic teachings of the Church which all Catholics must believe to be Catholic didn't change at all. Yes people were corrupt but I think that it is interesting that the Church's teachings were not altered to fit people's life styles. And people say that God doesn't protect the Church on faith and morals.

Also what many protestants don't realize that there was a Catholic Reformation shortly after the "protestant reformation." The Church has reformed herself. She just hadn't reformed herself dogmaticly that protestants would like her too. And Why? Because God has protected the Church from doing so.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), January 08, 2004.

you'll notice that the Church sold indulginces to the aristocrats for large sums of money, so called "guaranteeing a ticket to Heaven."

You may be misunderstanding indulgences. At no time did the Church forgive sin for money. And we certainly never taught that Jesus saved us once and we don't have to ask for forgiveness again (like the Protestants teach). What the Church taught and teaches is that we must ask God for forgiveness when we sin, and He will forgive us. When our sins are forgiven we are still responsible for cleaning up any temporal mess the sin caused.

For example, if you reck your father's car. You ask for his forgiveness, and he forgives you. You still need to get the car fixed to temporally right the wrong.

Purgatory is an opportunity for us to purge or purify ourselves from the mess left by our sins if we have not done so on earth. The Church teaches that one may cut down on temporal punishment either for oneself or for the souls in purgatory by doing good deeds and saying some extra prayers. Among these good deeds is almsgiving and supporting the Church financially. There have been times in the history of the Church where Preachers were not too careful. Some rich people got the impression that they could buy their way into heaven, not by reforming their lives, but by giving donations. But here they are not following the teachings of the Church.

Try this link for information on indulgences.

Try this link for information on purgatory.

In Christ
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@Hotmail.com), January 08, 2004.

But here they are not following the teachings of the Church.

If they were not in compliance with the teachings of the Church then why did the Church so eagerly accept their donations?

-- S. Gisewhite (sharvin@acsowrld.net), January 08, 2004.

Bill,

Then why did the Church accept their donations?

-- S. Gisewhite (sharvin@acsworld.net), January 08, 2004.

Quote from post: What if aliens exist? Would that change your opinion of God's existence? http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00BhDZ

Faith Manages: Religion on Babylon 5 "God goes my many names, perhaps some alien sounding, different faces, and history, but all describing the same Creator. We've come here to learn all those names in hopes of better understanding the One who's behind them," Brother Theo in _Convictions_

-- always pray (place@time.com), January 08, 2004.

''At some points the Catholic Church aquired so much power that She posessed more authority than the king himself. I may not be the smartest person in the world, nor do I proffess to be, but maybe because of the greed and coruption with-in the Catholic Church led to the creation of over 200,000 --(?) protestant churches.''

Who told you these things? Are you learning from an objective source? It's so convenient to accuse the Church of being ''corrupt and greedy'', to cover up the plain facts. Those renegade churches are totally to blame for leaving Jesus Christ's Church, period. You have no rightful cause to shift the blame onto His Church.

When there truly have been abuses, the Church reformed from within. Abuses have NEVER been tolerated and those who say so are merely Catholic-bashing.

When you make a flat argument that the Catholic Church aquired so much power that she possessed more authority than the king himself,'' -- You are repeating the ignorance and bias of anti-Catholic sects which are unworthy of Jesus Christ; they're UNCHRISTIAN.

The Church ALWAYS has had higher MORAL authority than any king. She has the authority from Jesus and His apostles, and it has nothing to do with mere POWER. The Church has travelled 2,000 years without much temporal authority, as a government. In every age she has put up with persecution and injustices done to her; and God is her witness. She has given this world the blood of countless martyrs; and contributed much more than some KINGS to our modern world. The Catholic Church has provided more education and charity and TRUTH than any other earthly institution; and has helped literally MILLIONS of souls come to salvation in Jesus Christ.

If you can, Mr. Page; name ONE non-Catholic church in the world that has surpassed the mother Church in ANY distribution of God's blessings at any period in history. YOU CAN'T /

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 08, 2004.

Please pardon me; Mr. John Page! ''If you can, Mr. Page; -- I meant to write: Mr/Ms Gisewhite, not your name.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 08, 2004.

Bill,
Then why did the Church accept their donations?

read what I wrote again.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), January 08, 2004.

Why there are so many religions ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), January 08, 2004.

Eugene,

Who is Mr. Page? Any way, as to where I learned these things, it was a glenco history book in high school when we studies world religions in my World Cultures class. I would think that the vast amount of historians who wrote my history book would know more than you. No offense. Honestly!!!

-- S. Gisewhite (sharvin@acsworld.net), January 08, 2004.

I would think that the vast amount of historians who wrote my history book would know more than you.

I wouldn't assume any such thing if I were you. see:
http://www.textbookl eague.org/56histo.htm

High School history textbooks are notoriously inaccurate. Welcome to the study of history!

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@Hotmail.com), January 08, 2004.

''Any way, as to where I learned these things, it was a glenco history book in high school when we study world religions in my World Cultures class.'' --Mr/Ms Gisewhite.

The sad fact is, then; Glenco the text-book company spreads anti-Catholic treatments of history? May we ask; does the text-book historicall explain who hand-copied the original manuscripts of our inspired Word of God? How many truly great artists, scientists, writers, physicians, and educators were trained in Catholic universities all over the western world, before there was even ONE protestant sect?

Does Glenco explain how most of the great seats of learning were established? The Universities of Oxford, Cambridge, Cologne, the Sorbonne, and many others? They were founded by the Catholic Church. So were countless great hospitals, orphanages, and poorhouses. Mainly they were staffed by Catholic clergy or religious orders; and some still are. Which sect converted the indigenous Americas, was it a protestant church? No; mostly it was the Franciscan order of holy missionaries, sent by the Popes. Does your history book cover these events, or merely the bad things? Perceived as evil, like the Inquisition, and ''selling indulgences''--? Why would any history book blow the horn for the Catholic faith? We know the Britannica is published in Britain. A sworn enemy in the past of all things Spanish; and allied to the English monarchs who forced the reformation on Catholic England, Ireland and Scotland. Who confiscated whole counties of church properties and burnt churches and convents, executed priests and faithful. Why would these sources find anything good to say about the Catholic faith. Mr/Ms Gisewhite? Ask yourself honestly. Their kings and queens spent centuries trying to destroy ''Papism''. Now their descendants write the most popular ''history books''.

''World Cultures study, indeed.''

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 08, 2004.

Then why did the Church accept their donations? S. Gisewhite,
Here is some history:

One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "[I]t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place. . . . It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded."

However, if the hierarchy of the Church knew of funds being donated to the Church not out of charity, but out of false pretenses, the Church should have refused the money.

Did the Church recognize that abuse was present? I would say yes for the Council of Trent instituted severe reforms in the practice of granting indulgences, and, because of prior abuses, "in 1567 Pope Pius V canceled all grants of indulgences involving any fees or other financial transactions" (Catholic Encyclopedia). This act proved the Church’s seriousness about removing abuses from indulgences.

Here is some more information on indulgences during Luther's time.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), January 08, 2004.

>>> Why there are so many religions ?? >>> -- Laurent LUG

A quote from a Sci Fi tv show.

Faith Manages: Religion on Babylon 5

"God goes my many names, perhaps some alien sounding, different faces, and history, but all describing the same Creator. We've come here to learn all those names in hopes of better understanding the One who's behind them," Brother Theo in _Convictions_ Episode

There is only one creator and people choose to worship him in their own way.

-- Always pray (Anytime@anyplace.com), January 09, 2004.

It is fair to say that the majority of Christians don't really know church history. It's not surprising, for the prospect of studying 2000 years of history would be difficult unless you are in seminary or have lot’s of free time.

I am currently reading a book about one aspect of church history, the tumultuous 16th century. I found out about it while browsing the EWTN.COM question & answer pages. Matthew Bunson (he answers many of the questions regarding church history on EWTN) recommended “The Penguin History of the Reformation by Owen Chadwick. It’s available in paperback and not expensive. It is as concise a book as you can find on a subject that could fill 1,000 volumes. The reading level is simple enough for good comprehension the first time through. Since this book does not focus exclusively on church history but has a wide angle view of 16th century life and politics as well, the reader can better understand forces that came together to create what we now call the reformation.

Peace

John

-- John Drake (johndwmail@yahoo.com), January 09, 2004.

John, There were many forces in play during the Reformation. One could almost say that the Reformation was as much a political movement (power grab?) as a religious one.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), January 09, 2004.

Another wonderful quote from the Sci fi show babylon 5:

"Well, if I project a beam of light at the wall, you see the light on the wall, but the wall is not the source of the light. It comes in from somewhere else. The soul is also a projection. It does not exist inside us any more than the light exists inside the wall. But this .. shell is the only way we can perceive it." -- Lennier to Brother Edward

-- Always pray (anytime@anyplace.com), January 09, 2004.

Bill;

Yes indeed that is true. The world was emerging from medieval thinking. The old systems were being questioned by an emerging middle class and with the advent of the printing press the burgeoning desire for change exploded.

Peace

John D

-- John Drake (johndwmail@yahoo.com), January 09, 2004.

However, the beam of light depends for its continued existence on the continuing action of the source which is producing it. Nothing in its essence, nothing in its nature, guarantees that it will exist a moment from now. The soul, once created, is assured of eternal existence by its very nature, even if it separates itself from its original source, for its nature is immortal.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 09, 2004.

Yes indeed that is true. The world was emerging from medieval thinking. The old systems were being questioned by an emerging middle class and with the advent of the printing press the burgeoning desire for change exploded.

Well, not exactly. An alliance was established between Luther and the princes of Germany, who were given the confiscated church estates. The Reformation was profitable both to them and to the insurgents of the big cities. This was called the Peasant War. About 100,000 people were killed in that war. (compared to about 6,000 who died in all the decades of the Inquisition).

The so called, reformation, was, at least in Luther’s time, more about greed than faith.

In 1526 the Diet of Speyer decreed that the subject must follow the faith of his master. This saved the princes, who openly joined Luther.

It is true that in 1529 Catholic services were reinstated and the confiscation of the lands of the clergy was halted in the provinces of the Lutheran princes, but the Lutheran minority protested against this decision-hence the name Protestants. In 1530, at a Diet session in Augsburg, the Protestant princes submitted to Emperor Charles V the so-called Augsburg Confession of the Lutherans. It consisted of two parts, the first giving an exposition of the new faith, and the second condemning the corruption of the Roman Church and outlining the necessary reforms.

The publication of the Augsburg Confession was not the end of the struggle. In September, 1555, at the Augsburg Diet, the so-called Augsburg Religious Peace confirmed the decision of 1526 relative to the obligation of the subjects to follow the faith of their masters. This decision made it obvious that Germany was to remain dismembered, under the rule of the princes.

Lutherism spread in northern and western Germany, Denmark and Sweden, where the princes, the bishops and the landlords became the protectors of the Lutheran Church.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@Hotmail.com), January 12, 2004.