MODERATOR>>>

This thread is a vote of forum regulars here.

Granted that jeanie has had TOTAL disregard for all forum rules here, namely in that she has violated the principle of respect for catholicism REQUIRED by this site, vote whether you want her off this site or not.

keeping in mind, jeanie has called the catholic church the cult of mary, she has slandered the church by claiming it endorses worship of mary, evolution as a forced doctrine, the rapture, lack of real presence, and lack of need for baptism. she has repeatedly posted erroneous materials and, when deleted because of rule violation she has simply reposted the material time and again. AND as she has stated, her whole purpose here is payback for what was said on one thread about martin luther along time ago. her vengeful attitude is not in keeping with the spirit of this forum.

-- Vote (jeanie@off.ThisForum), December 06, 2003

Answers

HI

-- sending it (TO@THETOP.COM), December 06, 2003.

My vote is send her away. She's not needed here.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 06, 2003.

i vote jeanie to go, banned permanently.

the very fact that shes ruined EVERY thread posted here by turning them ALL into anti catholic propaganda alone convinces me that she has no place here.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 06, 2003.

I vote for Jeanie to STAY.

Yes she has posted some bad stuff. But we must remember that she is not Catholic and has grown up in an anti-Catholic culture.

If the point of this forum is people to come and ask questions about Catholicism then I don't see the problem.

She might have used bigotted language but we have not done much to stop it. All the people on this forum do is to insight her to post more of that rubish.

If Jeanie is banned than I ask that pual h is banned also for his inability to show respect for other people and for his baited language.

Maybe what this forum needs is for people to take the remarks of some with a grain of salt, not lose their cool and calmly right back about the truth of Catholicism. I will admit that I have insighted people to write bad things about Catholicism because of baited lines. But when I write calmly and just explain what the Church teaches and keep on doing that with patience most often the people understand or leave on their own.

God Bless

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), December 06, 2003.

Yes she has posted some bad stuff. But we must remember that she is not Catholic and has grown up in an anti-Catholic culture.

this is no excuse for the continued lies she has posted, nor for the continued and repetitive violations of forum rules. if she is going to come here and post in a CATHOLIC forum, she must abide by the rules, leave, or be banned.

If the point of this forum is people to come and ask questions about Catholicism then I don't see the problem.

good thing thats not the point of this forum! the point of this forum is that it is a place for CATHOLICS to discuss the CATHOLIC faith, however protestants MAY come here RESPECTFULLY to ask HONEST questions of catholics about open curiosities. jeanie, however, has been niether honest, nor respectful to anything about the catholic church.

She might have used bigotted language but we have not done much to stop it. All the people on this forum do is to insight her to post more of that rubish.

actually, i regard "go away bigot" as more of a bait for her to leave and stop violating forum rules.

If Jeanie is banned than I ask that pual h is banned also for his inability to show respect for other people and for his baited language.

yes, that pual guy is weird. however, if you are refering to me, pAUl h, i challenge you to show me one place where i have lacked to show respect for someone when my claim was not true.

FURTHERMORE show me one place where i have violated the forum rules in posting anti catholic material in repititious fashion. if you can show me how i violated the rules in this means, i'll ask the moderator ban both myself and jeanie. (hint: you wont find it, its not there)

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 06, 2003.

According to Pope Eugene, the same fate awaits a heretic as a schismatic. If one can stay, both should.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), December 06, 2003.

At this point I hope banning is not necessary. I have not seen one post by Jeanie that was not easily handled by Catholic forum contributers. I don't think anyone is in any danger of being lead astray by her arguments. I can understand how some here feel about Jeanie as the tone of many of her posts is stridant and somewhat insulting. That being said, I think we got off to a bad start. She came here furious about something she read by one of us. Since then, passions all around have fanned the flames that have brought us to this issue of banning. Why don't we all,... Jeanie included, try stepping back, turning some other cheeks and getting on with level headed, good natured, intelligent discussion. ...Ignoring could be an interum option before outright banning, but hopefully we'll just work this out. Jim

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), December 07, 2003.

I have not seen one post by Jeanie that was not easily handled by Catholic forum contributers.

not relevant, the fact that she repeatedly posts the same nonsense and lies despite clear corrections is what constitutes a violation of the rules. im not abject to allowing her here, so long as she maintains the respectful manner towards the church, content prohibitions, and lack of repititious posting in violation of forum rules. these things we should demand of all forum members.

I don't think anyone is in any danger of being lead astray by her arguments.

how is this at all relevant to the issue of her violating forum rules? look at EVERY thread recently. regardless of the original subject of the thread, jeanie has managed to turn nearly every single one of them into an anti catholic propaganda page. THIS constitutes a violation of rules in and of itself... ask the "trads" on this site about how everyone is banned from turning unrelated threads to THAT topic if you want clarifications of the rules. in short, jeanie is SPAMMING OUR FORUM. violations like these must stop.

I can understand how some here feel about Jeanie as the tone of many of her posts is stridant and somewhat insulting.

how i feel is irrelevant. there are people here that i disagree with ALL THE TIME. jake, isabel, regina, emerald. i dont want any of them banned. why? because they, at least, follow the forum rules. the only relevant fact to me, is the repeated violations of forum rules. nothing personal in my move to ban jeanie.

That being said, I think we got off to a bad start. She came here furious about something she read by one of us.

remember in all things, this forum is for catholics, and protestants are allowed to participate. her coming here because of something said on OUR forum does not constitute a valid reason for us to allow her repeated violation of forum rules.

if nothing else, i ask that the moderator deliver an ultimatum... to follow the rules as everyone else here is required to do, to leave, or to be banned.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 07, 2003.

It is one thing for a person to come to the forum with the intent to learn or even debate with a sincere intent.

Neither one nor the other has been present.

I don't believe in excommunication from the forum.

Censorship yes, banning no.

God bless.

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), December 07, 2003.

Jmj

Jeanie should have been gone a long time ago ... and I mean on the third day of her presence here.

In my four years at forum, there have only been three or four other ex-Catholics/anti-Catholics visit here who have been so incredibly obnoxious as she has been.

All one has to do is go to this Moderator's thread to read the rules, etc., in the opening post -- to see how flagrantly Jeanie has broken them. Upon reading the opening message on the linked page [which I have to start regularly topping again], the people who supported Jeanie, above, will see that they have some incorrect ideas about the purposes of the forum and about what an "objector" to Catholicism is permitted to do here.

It is years overdue for the orthodox Catholic "regulars" of the forum to compose and pass an objective "banning policy" -- with built-in criteria and timing -- for the current and future moderators to follow. It will come as no surprise to anyone that I have been totally against the inconsistent and usually far-too-tolerant banning policies used by past and current moderators.

In Jeanie's case, there can be no excuse whatsoever for any moderator not to have banned her by now. I'm not actually sure that the current moderator has ever banned anybody. He may have only driven a few people away through "discouragement" -- deleting all their offensive posts, but not all their posts. I'm sure that he will correct me if I am wrong. But if I am right, then I object to that "never-ban" strategy completely.

My long-held proposal, expressed (in abbreviated fashion) most recently on another thread yesterday, is this:

1. The opening post in the "rules thread" should be modified, to include a longer and more specific list of prohibited behaviors.

2. When a newcomer arrives and, by bashing Catholicism or grossly proselytizing for another faith, violates any of the published rules of the forum, the moderator must notify the person of the requirement that he/she read the rules and follow them. (A link to the rules thread will be provided to the person.) There will be both a public notification on the forum and an attempt at private notification via e-mail. The moderator will delete the offensive post (or thread) to show that this forum "means business."

3. On the next day -- after the newcomer has had a chance to see the rules -- if he/she breaks any rule again, the moderator must warn him/her that another offense will result in the person being banned. Again the offensive post (or thread) will be deleted.

4. On the third day -- after the newcomer has had a chance to see the warning posted the day before -- if he/she breaks any rule again, the moderator will publicly (and, if possible, privately) notify the person that he/she has been banned and forbidden to post any more messages. The offensive post (or thread) will be deleted.

5. In the message of banning, the offender will be notified of the possibility of re-admission to the forum following a public apology and a pledge to follow the rules. This apology and pledge must also be made privately to the moderator (so that the e-mail address can be recorded). [Such grave offenders lose the right to privacy. Almost all other Catholic forums require registration, in which e-mail address must be given.]

6. If a re-admitted person commits a new offense, there will be a warning and a new banning on the second (rather than third) offense. If re-admitted yet again, the person will be banned a third time after just one offense -- without any further hope of re-admission.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 07, 2003.

Hmmm. Seems a sad state of affairs when we have to create divisions. I'm new here, so I cannot comment on the seriousness of the wrongs of others, nor would do I want to. If all are not welcome here, maybe this should become a private board? Just a thought.

-- Nick (spamfree@nospam.com), December 08, 2003.

nick, all ARE welcome here, provided they follow the rules of this CATHOLIC forum. if you had read some of the hateful material posted by the person recently banned, you would agree with us on the ousting of the offender. even non catholics were beginning to agree that this one should go. all that aside, welcome to our humble forum

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), December 08, 2003.

Dear Nick,

ALL are welcome here but not EVERYTHING is welcome here. Do you know of any online forum, or for that matter any gathering of human beings, online or off, where there are absolutely no requirements or limits on behavior? ALL are initially welcome; however, persons who insist on bringing with them that which is not welcome, and attempting to force it down our collective throats, make themselves unwelcome, much as we would like them to remain welcome guests.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 08, 2003.

It just seems to me that God calls us to love our enemies and even those who wish us ill will. I agree that sometimes outlandish behavior can be disruptive and hurtful ... I only wish it could be greated with loving kindness, not eviction and bannishment. It just doesn't seem to be the Christ-like thing to do. my $0.02.

-- Nick (spamfree@nospam.com), December 08, 2003.

Well, here is what Christ had to say on the subject ...

"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, have nothing more to do with him". (Matthew 18:15-17)

Such an action is not opposed to loving a person. Surely Jesus was not recommending hatred. But some of the people we love are hell-bent on disrupting the body, and that can be tolerated only to a certain degree before decisive action must be taken, as the above passage indicates.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 08, 2003.