These are Chris B's words........greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
here is what chris B said to Annie in another thread.If you confess your mortal sin to a priest, and he pronounces that you are forgiven, then even though you only had imperfect contrition, you are free of the mortal sin.
So Chris, A priest can obsolve your sins? He can grant you salvation? He truly is the "vicar of Christ"?
According to dictionary.com, a "Vicar" is: 1. A priest who acts for or represents another, often higher-ranking member of the clergy.
You're correct that priests are the instruments through which Christs forgiveness can operate.
Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua most certainly promised his disciples that he would give them power to forgive sins. Check out John 20:21-23:
Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."
JC, believe in Jesus' own promises--please don't categorize Jesus as instituting "Hogwash"!
In Christ,
Mateo el Pecador
-- (MateoElFeo@netscape.net), March 18, 2002.JC,I noticed you ran away from these questions in the other thread.
Do you believe that Moses practiced idolatry when he made the bronze serpent in Numbers?
AMDG,
Mateo
PS--Sorry for the thread-jumping tactics! I couldn't resist...
-- (MateoLaCulebra@netscape.net), March 18, 2002.Just once, before you evil anti-Catholic Satan worshipper flew off the handle, I just wish you would ask us some questions about doctrine. We believe the priest has no power in himself. Zero. He is acting for Christ. Does not a Protestant pastor preside at a wedding?The authority to forgive sins is given to the Apostles at the end of the Gospel of John: "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whoever's sins *you* forgive are forgiven them, and whoever's sins *you* retain are retained." The Greek word there means "you," pure and simple.
I know, I know, you have your own little splnter sect's new-fangled newly cooked up interpretation of that verse. Why not? Who cares what Christians have believed throughout history about that verse? Who cares what the teaching is of the very Church founded by Christ?
The Fatima prayer is what I hold in my heart for the salvation of the athiest beings who reject GOD and humankind. LORD, HAVE MERCY ON HIM, Dennis, a sinner.
-- Fred Bishop (fcbishop@globaleyes.net), March 18, 2002.Jesus called some people "vipers." So did John the Baptist. Jesus overttunred the tables of the moneylenders and threw them out of the temple. Each of us, in our own small and limited way, is called by the Bible to imitate Jesus, in both His gentleness, and in His righteous anger in the face of evil. He did not suggest we imitate Him. He told us to. I did not go to a Protestant forum and right "HOGWASH" about their doctrine in giant letters across their screen. In fact, I enjoy dialogue with sincere non-Catholics, such as David Bowerman. I like him very much.
This is a Catholic forum. Lately the anti-Catholic bigots have been going nuts here. The stuff they write is evil, and I'm going to call it what it is. The purpose of the forum is not a propaganda outlet for people with an axe to grind against Catholicism.
-- Chris B -- March 18, 2002.Could be you're crazy?If you don't want to be forgiven your sins, just don't come to the Catholic Church. Could be you die in sin.
If you don't care for the way the Church leads souls to Christ, don't follow her. Could be you follow a false prophet.
Do you expect to enjoy eternal life for clinging to the OT sabbath? Well, I hope you get there; you never know.
Could be we'll be waiting for you when you get in. --We'll all cry: ''Could THAT be Could Be? --Nah ! He can't walk more than a block on the sabbath. He died on a Saturday, Poor Guy!
-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), March 18, 2002.I just wanted to respond to some of the comments made by Chris B. and Fredbishop. I am new here, but I've read some of your threads and I respect what you have to say. And I agree in the defense of our faith, but I think we need to remember that we cannot judge and so instead of calling people "what they are: evil" I don't think we should pass judgement. Why can't we just pray for those who dont understand and judge our Catholic faith. I just dont think Jesus would want us to use harsh words with them just to try and make them understand our faith.
-- Jessica (ebony_ebony@hotmail.com), March 18, 2002.I think the person who started this thread, along with most others, and including myself, do not like the idea of being ordered to tell their sins to an intelligent and spiritual human being. Truly, it is humiliating. It is a normal reaction to not like confession. Especially if you make a good confession is it difficult. No mystery here with this post. Jesus was totally humiliated by his cross. He was sinless and treated like a criminal. His pain was not just physical but also emotional. Anyone who is anti-confession is also anti-cross. We must all do our best to imitate Jesus and face our just humiliations by going to a priestly confession. It will save us in the imitation of Christ.Love the Cross
-- Mike H (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), March 18, 2002.Hello, Jessica. Here are some quotations on this subject.Matthew 12:34 "[Jesus said,] 'You brood of vipers! how can you speak good, when you are evil? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man out of his good treasure brings forth good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth evil. 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.'"
Matthew 3:7 But when [John the Baptist] saw many of the Pharisees and Sad'ducees coming for baptism, he said to them, 'You brood of vipers. . .!'"
Matthew 23:13 "[Jesus said,] 'But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in. 14 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. . .17 You blind fools. . .!19 You blind men. . .! 25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of extortion and rapacity. 26 You blind Pharisee! first cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside also may be clean. 27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. . .33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?"
John 8:44 "[Jesus said,] 'You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.'"
-- Chris B -- March 18, 2002.Hi, Jessica. You sound to me like a kindhearted and gentle lady, and you are to be commended. I should have made clear that these strongly worded quotations I just put here are not at all directed toward you.I would respectfully suggest to you that in the Body of Christ, men have different roles fromwomen sometimes. Some of these differences the Church has explicitly taught on (like that women have a wonderful genius for showing affection to children). My personal opinion is that one of the jobs of men is to give bigots a strong talking to. I'd rather do this so that the great ladies who come here don't have to. I'm an old-fashioned guy. :-) God bless you.
-- Chris B -- March 18, 2002.
-- The Thread Restorer (Thread@Restoration.com), December 01, 2003
I don't understand for what reason Fred Molson was humiliated and abused for merely pointing out the harsh words that were used in this thread. I think, he is here for the first time and the words he used did not seem very offensive.Just concerned.
-- leslie john (leslie_jn@yahoo.com), December 02, 2003.
I don't know either. It happened a year and a half ago. But I have deleted some of the offensive and non-contributory posts.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 02, 2003.
There was never a Fred Molson, Paul!You deleted Dennis Molson. He was later banned from forum.
Don't delete to much from old threads because you might not understand them(at first).
Rember you just said you were going to be more conservative with the deletions?
And also it doesn't look good for Frank!:-) You are deleting what he decided to leave up when he was Moderator.
Think about it.
God bless you.
-- - (David@excite.com), December 02, 2003.