LH McAllen.Org, Kevin? What do you think?

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HI Kevin.

I listen the Sunday morning church radio. The broadcast involves Luthern and church of Christ sermons. I wonder what you thought about this particular church:

church of Christ in McAllen, Texas.

There is this "Master Control" broadcast that seems to focus on commercialism instead of Gospel and Salvation.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 23, 2003

Answers

I listen to the Gospels where I can find them.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 23, 2003.


rod,

I personally would not worship there. There are some churches of Christ that are TOO conservative and this is one of them.

If you were ever going to attend worship at a church of Christ, I would recommend you attend the worship of the church on Harvey Drive.

508 Harvey Drive, McAllen, TX 78501 Phone: (210) 686-8173 Email: Jay@hiline.net Total number of members: 250 Times of worship: Sun bible study 9:00am, Sunday Worship 10:00am, Sunday Evening 5:00pm, Wed Supper 5:45pm, Wed Service 7:00pm

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 23, 2003.


Wow! Kevin had you been down here in the Valley, you would have already drugged me out of the house and hauled me off to church (just a friendly kidding around). Hmm? They are too conservative? Well, I can't exactly move righ now considering the situation I'm in (I'm talking about moving from one church to another, not the church of Christ, although my neighbor has invited me to his) ; they've put me in charge of the musical group at church.

Anyway, I do listen to their broadcast, which I find illuminating.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 23, 2003.


I don't think it could ever be humanly possible for a so- called "church" of Christ protestant denomination to be too conservative unless you are talking about being conservatively radical.



-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 25, 2003.


"I don't think it could ever be humanly possible for a so- called "church" of Christ protestant denomination to be too conservative unless you are talking about being conservatively radical."

First, since james is NOT a a member of the church of Christ, he CANNOT make this statement and does NOT know what he is talking about.

Second, the church of Christ is NOT protestant.

Third, the church of Christ is NOT a denomination.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 28, 2003.



"I don't think it could ever be humanly possible for a so- called "church" of Christ protestant denomination to be too conservative unless you are talking about being conservatively radical."

First, since james is NOT a a member of the church of Christ, he does NOT know what he is talking about.

Second, the church of Christ is NOT protestant.

Third, the church of Christ is NOT a denomination.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 28, 2003.


Kevin is NOT a a member of the True Church of Jesus Christ ~ the Eternal Most Holy Catholic Chruch.

He does NOT know what he is talking about.

The brand-new experimental protestant denomination called "church" of Christ is PROTESTANT, after Luther.

The brand-new experimental protestant denomination called "church" of Christ is A DENOMINATION, a new sprout.



-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 28, 2003.


David,

Once again james MOCKS my words and does NOT provide any proof to back up his statements.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 28, 2003.


both Kevin and James are wrong. the church of Christ is not a denomination in that it is not an organized group of congregations that follow the same doctrine, and/or have a central governing body. however, the churches of Christ (of which i am a member) cannot call themselves non-denominaitonal because we have too many things in common with one another. this is a short answer because i have an appt., but it's my personal opinion based on my heritage as a cofC member. by the way, i attend harvey drive and i am pleased that someone was blessed by visiting us.

cordelia

-- cordelia shotts (cordelia110467@hotmail.com), January 27, 2004.


Hi Cordelia.

I listen to you all's radio program every Sunday morning. "We challenge you..." gets my ears, mind, and spirit roused up and ready. I don't agree or disagree 100%, but it does get me more involved in studying the Gospels. Say hi to your pastor for me.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 27, 2004.



Cordelia wrote, "both Kevin and James are wrong. the church of Christ is not a denomination in that it is not an organized group of congregations that follow the same doctrine, and/or have a central governing body. however, the churches of Christ (of which i am a member) cannot call themselves non-denominaitonal because we have too many things in common with one another. this is a short answer because i have an appt., but it's my personal opinion based on my heritage as a cofC member. by the way, i attend harvey drive and i am pleased that someone was blessed by visiting us."

You are sincerely mistaken if you believe that the church of Christ is a "denomination". The church of Christ which I AM A MEMBER is NOT a denomination. Just because we have "too many things in common with one another" does NOT make us a "denomination". The early church had "all things in common" (Acts 2:44) were they a denomination???

I can ASSURE you that they most certainly were NOT a "denomination".

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), January 28, 2004.


Kevin, You wrote:

You are sincerely mistaken if you believe that the church of Christ is a "denomination". The church of Christ which I AM A MEMBER is NOT a denomination. Just because we have "too many things in common with one another" does NOT make us a "denomination". The early church had "all things in common" (Acts 2:44) were they a denomination???

I can ASSURE you that they most certainly were NOT a "denomination". _____________________________________________

First, I apologize for taking so long to respond, as I couldn't find this site once I posted.

Second, I am so sorry for offending you; because that wasn't my intention. If I didn't offend you, you might want to curb the CAPS in your postings.

Obviously we have different definitions of the word 'denomination'. Perhaps, if you don't mind doing so, you could share with me why you believe the word/name/title/catagory to be an anathema.

You are right, the church in Acts did have all things in common. Including their property, their incomes, their food, all they posessed. Does your church have those things in common? Mine doesn't. The church in Acts not only met every Sabbath, they awoke before day-break and met the rising sun with praises to their King. Do you all do that? Tell me, what is so very terrible about being 'grouped' together?

It just occurred to me - when you wrote 'I AM

-- cordelia (cordelia110467@hotmail.com), July 16, 2004.


Kevin, You wrote:

You are sincerely mistaken if you believe that the church of Christ is a "denomination". The church of Christ which I AM A MEMBER is NOT a denomination. Just because we have "too many things in common with one another" does NOT make us a "denomination". The early church had "all things in common" (Acts 2:44) were they a denomination???

I can ASSURE you that they most certainly were NOT a "denomination". _____________________________________________

First, I apologize for taking so long to respond, as I couldn't find this site once I posted.

Second, I am so sorry for offending you; because that wasn't my intention. If I didn't offend you, you might want to curb the CAPS in your postings.

Obviously we have different definitions of the word 'denomination'. Perhaps, if you don't mind doing so, you could share with me why you believe the word/name/title/catagory to be an anathema.

You are right, the church in Acts did have all things in common. Including their property, their incomes, their food, all they posessed. Does your church have those things in common? Mine doesn't. The church in Acts not only met every Sabbath, they awoke before day-break and met the rising sun with praises to their King. Do you all do that? Tell me, what is so very terrible about being 'grouped' together?

It just occurred to me - when you wrote 'I AM A MEMBER', were you suggesting that I am not a member of the body of Christ? Hmmm...????

-- cordelia (cordelia110467@hotmail.com), July 16, 2004.


Hi Cordelia

It is nice to hear from you again. I pass by your church every now and then and I think about the radio programs and this thread.

I habitually listen to the radio program, among others. Good job!

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 16, 2004.


Kevin,

I really should have done my homework and read through the rest of this site's threads. I would have gotten a better picture of your beliefs.

I wasn't deceiving you; I was born and raised in the C of C, my grandfather was one of the last paid elders and was an itenerate preacher when my mother was little. I may be naive, but this is the only faith I have known, and it has held me steady in the brightest and darkest moment of my life.

What I have a problem with is reconciling the constant furverent rejection and anger that keeps so many of the churches of Christ at arms length from the rest of the world's believers.

Was not Christ a guest at a tax man's table? Didn't he save an adulteress from her just reward? Christ's desire was to see all men restored to their rightful place as children of God. How, then can we reach these people if we keep them at arms length with thready arguments and useless rhetoric? We, the human race, have created these boxes - these churches to feel safe in, and lock the rest out.

We cannot continue to fool ourselves with the idea that we can somehow stake a claim on the wishes of the Almighty.

I respect your beliefs and your passion Kevin. I just want you to be sure that you are fighting for the things that matter to God.

Cordelia

-- cordelia (cordelia110467@hotmail.com), July 16, 2004.



Rod,

Find a nice PCA church ;-)

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), July 17, 2004.


Cordelia,

You didn't offend me, and for a long time, that was my writing style, using capital letters in my replies. I used capital letters for emphasis and I am trying to do better in this regard. :-)

Religiously, a denomination is an organized group of congregations that can be named or classified together because they have formed a collective entity.

In English, to "denominate" means to designate, or give a name to, and a denomination is a naming or classification of something

A denomination is not merely a number of congregations that resemble one another, or seem to belong together.

A denomination is an intentionally organized group of congregations that is, a group of congregations that participate in some organization through which they can act as a unit for some purposes.

They are "named" together (designated or "denominated" as one) because they participate in the common organization, and are able to function as one through their organization.

In the New Testament, church means a single congregation of Christians, and churches means two or more completely independent congregations, which are essentially identical in faith and practice. (1 Cor. 4:17; 7:17; Gal. 1:2; Rev. 1:4).

Scriptural independence and autonomy are violated any time a person, persons, congregation, or organization assumes decision making oversight over a work that a plurality of congregations is involved in.

A dependency is always set up.

Typically the overseeing entity is dependent for funds, and the contributors are dependent for oversight.

This is true even when the linkage involves only a specific purpose or single project - e.g. the Southern Baptist Convention.

And voluntarily giving up scriptural autonomy only worsens the matter.

We may not scripturally "denominate" any organization larger than the local church but smaller than the universal church. (Cf. Mt. 16:18; Phil. 1:1).

As the gospel of Christ is proclaimed in its purity, without the addition of creeds (Gal. 1:6-9), its simple message (1 Cor. 1:19--2:13) becomes the "power of God unto salvation" (Rom. 1:16).

Within the gospel is a divine power that is called "the seed" (Luke 8:1-15) by which spiritual life is generated in every age, wherever the gospel is proclaimed.

Jesus is the head of the church (Eph. 1:22-23), and it is His right to determine who is saved and who is in His fellowship.

The power of the gospel, the seed (Luke 8:11) generates life wherever it is sown.

Disciples are made when they obey the gospel (Matt. 28:18-20) and the Lord adds them to His church (Acts 2:47).

As individual saints are born by the word, they meet with others saints in a locality in order to work and worship as New Testament Christians did.

In this fashion, wherever the gospel is preached, churches of Christ will appear.

There is only one church (Ephesians 4:4).

Romans 16:16 mentions "churches" (plural) "of Christ", these were not denominations, but were all part of the one unified body ruled by Jesus from heaven.

Every LOCAL church taught the same thing ? the Apostles doctrine ? (1 Corinthians 4:17, Acts 2:42).

When these local churches had men qualified, they would appoint elders to oversee each local church (Acts 14:23).

There were no creed books because the inspired word of God is sufficient to unite all men in one body (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

A local church of Christ is simply a congregation that belongs to Christ.

Each congregation is independent from every other congregation, claiming its autonomy under Christ (Phil. 1:1; 1 Pet. 5:1-2).

It recognizes no earthly head, belongs to no association of churches, stands free from denominational churches and supports no human institutions.

Disciples of Jesus wear no denominational names or support denominational doctrines.

We are not Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Episcopal, Mormon, Catholic, etc.

No such names or denominations existed when Jesus built His church (Matt. 16:18; Acts 2:47).

The name of "Christian" is given for us to wear, and we glorify God in that name (Acts 11:26; 4:12; 1 Pet. 4:14-15).

Denominations "claim" they are Christians however, they do not do what Jesus commands one must do in order to be saved hence, they are not saved.

-- Kevin Walker ("kevinlwalker572@cs.com"), July 17, 2004.


DENOMINATION? Church of Christ might not be an "organized denomination" with heirarchies of shepherds etc. or meeting places or councils to resolve disputes (like the one at Jerusalem in the first century) but it is definitely an affiliation of churches which bases its affiliation on an unofficially written creed/interpretation of the Protestant Bible.

It's relatively new. It cannot be traced back very far in an historic sense. Those who say it reaches as far back as Jesus are simply dreamers with no historical trace to prove theit claim.

PROTESTANT? It's not Protestant in the sense of being directly born out of the days of the Reformation, but it is certainly a step-child of Protestant beliefs in the sense that it adopts the Protestant Collection of Scriptures, rejects Rome, accepts only 2 ordinances, etc.

I'd classify it more as a movement than a denomination. There have been many movements throughout Church history. Some last and some die off.

In my opinion, the Church of Christ movement has elements of the Truth and likely has true believers in Christ on board, but like Rome and most other church affiliations, it seems to muddle the pure Gospel with its false teachings about justification - among other errors.

-- Max Darity (arrowtouch@yahoo.com), July 24, 2004.


Yes Max, it can be traced to the Restoration Movement.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), July 24, 2004.

Kevin, David & Rod,

I can't submit a full response right now, because I have to go somewhere, but I did want to clear something up. I have intended to clear this up earlier, but I just kept forgetting.

Harvey Drive Church of Christ doesn't sponsor the radio show you are listening to. It is sponsored by the Laurel Heights C of C on Tamarack and 2nd Street. I personally haven't listened to the show, but I am so glad that it is a blessing to so many.

Kevin, thanks for your response, I am glad that you shared your very complete definition of denomination with me. I see that I will have to do some homework before I take up another discussion with you :) I felt like I was back in Sunday school :) I will 'chew' on your response for a bit, and get back soon.

- Cordelia

-- cordelia (cordelia110467@hotmail.com), July 24, 2004.


oops! my mistake.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 24, 2004.


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