My question is,Is there other denominations of the Catholic church. I have been under complete understanding that unless you are in communion with the Holy see you cannot claim to be one with the Church. Yet i still see articles about there being more denominations of the Catholic church,But these are schism's, right not actual in being with the holy see. Please shed some light on this for me.... Peace

-- Andrew m Tillcock (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), October 15, 2003

Answers

There are several different "Rites" within the Catholic Church, which differ in certain traditional ways of doing things (timing of the sacraments of intiation, marital status of priests, etc.). But all of these Rites are under the headship of the Holy Father, and all of them share the same doctrinal truth. All Catholics are under the authority of the one and only Vicar of Jesus Christ, the Pope. One cannot be Catholic otherwise.

There are no denominations within the Catholic Church. Denominations are, by definition, bodies which broke away from a previously existing body, rejecting both the authority and the identity of that body ("de nomina", meaning "out of the name" or "away from the name"). Thus, there cannot be denominations WITHIN a body, since denomination means a separation FROM a body.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), October 15, 2003.

Andrew,

In response to your question, there are two different religions within the Catholic Church. The NEW religion cannot tolerate the old and the old religion cannot tolerate the NEW. The old religion cannot tolerate the New religion, pretending to replace the old religion, because the old religion is is true...the NEW religion is a completely new religion.

-- (tarses@sbcglobal.net), October 15, 2003.

Andrew,

As you can see, tarses represents a schismatic group as he believes there are two churches. As Paul correctly stated to be Catholic is to obey the Pope and Magesterium and be one with the Catholic church. People who claim this is NOT necessary, are not Catholics.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), October 15, 2003.

Thank's Paul and frank that clears this up for me. Pax christi

-- Andrew m Tillcock (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), October 15, 2003.

Actually, with regard to "Rites" -- as opposed to denominations -- my understanding is that the Eastern or Orthodox Communion are in fact considered to be Catholic. The Orthodox do not however adhere to the Holy See in Rome. Further complicting this, within the Eastern Communion are a number of churches that in fact do adhere to the Holy See in Rome (and as a result have been in conflict with other Eastern churches). The New Advent Web site has some interesting articles about this this.

-- Carl Rudorf (carlrudorf@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

Some of the Orthodox churches may consider themselves Catholic, but they are not considered Catholic by the Holy Catholic Church, from which they departed in the 11th century.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), October 15, 2003.

What has this to do with the faith? Please comment on the action of this university. Don't run away from it. Erasing it won't make these kind of actions go away.

Novus Ordo Charistmatics Barking Like Dogs, Oinking Like Pigs, and Rolling on the Floor In the "Spirit of Vatican II" I bet you never thought you'd see something like this at a Catholic University! Charismaticism is a particularly virulent modern-day mania infecting the New Order Church and has its roots deep in heresy. It just goes to show that heresies get worse and worse over time, once they take hold.

The scene is a "Catholic" university, the University of Steubenville in St. Louis. The photo shows charismatics barking like dogs, oinking like pigs, and rolling on the floor in hysterical "holy laughter." Apparently, these people have been infused with the "spirit of Vatican II."

In the late 17th century, the beginnings of Charismaticism (Pentecostalism) can already be seen as a derivative of the Protestant heresy. Philip Jakob Spener and his disciple, August Hermann Francke, from his vantage point at the new University of Halle, through over 6,000 graduates in Protestant theology, spread the ideas of Pietism throughout Germany. The Pietists specially emphasized emotional feeling rather than reason and cultivated "enthusiasm" in worship. They encouraged Herzensreligion, a religion of the heart founded on an "individual, personal experience" of Christ, much like the modern Protestant Pentecostals, who talk about a "personal experience of Christ," by which they refer to an over-emotionalized, highly personalized attitude that overrides true belief.

-- Gerard (Windstorm@yahoo.com), October 16, 2003.

If I may ask, without offending anyone, why is bishop Joseph Sullivan, setting up an ecumenican worship, in his church, with Anglicans. It is un-Catholic and even gets foolish at times. A Liturgy Committee was set up that "met and spent hours planning liturgy for seasons or feasts. Readings were reviewed, themes developed, and music selected." A hallmark of these "liturgies" was an elaborate "sign of peace," condemned even by the Vatican. A polite handshake or nod was not deemed enough. The Episcopalians and Catholics had to get out of their seats and wander around the church, schmoozing like glad-handing politicians. One child poked his mother and said: "Let's go get somebody!"

-- Justin (Shoepie@getsome.com), October 17, 2003.

condemned even by the Vatican.

That's the important part. Unfortunately there can always be bishops who fall off the path into schism. Fall off one way you get this type of schismatic. Fall off the other you get a Lefebvrist schismatic.

You want the Truth? Obey the church.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), October 17, 2003.

You are correct, but does the Vatican broom of excommunication, sweep one side out the door, and the other side under the rug? Why is Sullivan and others of his ilk not also out. Smells a but fishy to me. Please explain.

-- Justin (shoepie@getsome.com), October 17, 2003.

I'm waiting for the Charismatic Lefebvrist movement. lol

-- Mike H. (beginasyouare@hotmail.com), October 17, 2003.

Speak in tongues and you'll get it.

Pray the Rosary and you'll be spared of it.

=)

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), October 17, 2003.

Justin,

Not every heretic priest is excommunicated, some undoubtably go under the radar. Sad, but true. OTOH a Bishop who disobeys the direct order of the Pope is someone who has to be dealt with. Personally, I agree with you that EVERY priest has to be made to toe the line, but for now, it hasn't happened.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), October 17, 2003.

May God console you! ... What saddens you ... is the fact that others have occupied the Churches by violence, while during this time you are on the outside. It is a fact that they have the premises -- but you have the apostolic faith. They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the faith? The true faith, obviously. Who has lost and who has won in this struggle -- the one who keeps the premises or the one who keeps the faith? "True, the premises are good when the apostolic faith is preached there; they are holy if everything takes place there in a holy way ...

"You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the faith which has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and if an execrable jealously has tried to shake it in a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis.

"No one, ever, will prevail against your faith, beloved brothers, and we believe that God will give us our Churches back some day.

-- Thany (Thany@the church.com), November 28, 2003.

You are correct, but does the Vatican broom of excommunication, sweep one side out the door, and the other side under the rug? Why is Sullivan and others of his ilk not also out. Smells a but fishy to me. Please explain.

it will sweep both out the door, but when you have two spills on opposite sides of the room you can only deal with one at a time. if schismos would settle down into something more like a traditionalist (and yes, there is a HUGE difference) then the vatican might have time to deal with the other side.

do i agree with you about rampant priests needing to be cut off at the knees until they are in line with V-II? yes. but i also agree with frank in that all priests should be brought in keeping with church teaching. this does not mean a ban on the traditional mass, but it must be validly celebrated AND it cannot be held as superior to the new mass.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), November 28, 2003.