If it is taught that we should obey God and the Bible is the guide, can we really do what God teaches?
If so, where would this put the monks and nuns who lived ascetic lives according to their obedience to God?
And, where does that put us in the scheme of things?
Should we leave our families and follow the Kingdom of God?

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 10, 2003

Answers

rod,

The writer of the book of Hebrews wrote: "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him," (Heb. 5:9).

Obviously this writer thought that we could OBEY Jesus otherwise he would not have made this statement that one could have eternal life if they OBEYED Jesus.

Jesus said in Luke 8:21, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

Jesus also said in Luke 11:28, "But He said, "More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!"

Obviously Jesus thought that one could keep His word.

The devil PERSUCUTES the church and those who OBEY the COMMANDMENTS for the Apostle John wrote in Rev. 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

The monks and nuns who you claim lived "ascetic lives" did so, but they were NOT in accordance with the Word of God, for if they did NOT obey the gospel, they were NOT saved.

You wrote, "Should we leave our families and follow the Kingdom of God?"

Jesus answered your question when He stated in Matt. 10:34-39: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.' He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), October 10, 2003.

I don't claim that the monks and nuns lived ascetic lives, history documents this.

But, let's look at your Bible verse. When I read this verse, I'm left wondering if we all fall short of obeying God's "command"? When I read this verse, I feel as if we should put our lives away and enter the priesthood or the seminary. Surely, this isn't what this verse means. Where is the line drawn?

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 10, 2003.

rod,

Let's take a look at the last part of the verse which states, "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it."

How can one lose their life for Jesus sake???

If you read the account of how one repents of their sins in Romans 6:2 (in repentance one dies to sin) and are buried with Christ in baptism (in baptism since we have already died -- i.e. repented, then we are buried for baptism is a burial) INTO His death in verse 3 and in verse 4 we walk in newness of life (which is our resurrection), one can see that when they OBEY the gospel, they are LITERALLY dying for Jesus.

Romans 6:6 states that our old man was "crucified with Him" for this very reason, "that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin."

Colossians 3:3 states, "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

In Gal. 2:20 the Apostle Paul stated, "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

One CANNOT be "crucified with Christ" without being baptized INTO Christ.

Get it???

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), October 10, 2003.

Then we are speaking of "sanctification". I've read about the Saints living and saying the very same things you've written about. The similarities are too evident to deny their examples.

So, I suppose that we can live our lives in a state of "sanctification" without having to enter a monestary.

rod...

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 10, 2003.