"Caulacau"

"Saulasau"

"Zeesar"

The Gospel of Thomas

[13] (83.7-14)

And he took him, went aside (and) said to him three words.
But when Thomas came to his companions, they asked him:
What did Jesus say to you?
Thomas said to them:
If I tell you one of the words he said to me,
you will bring stones and you will cast them
at me,
and a fire will go forth from the stones and
destroy you.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 07, 2003

Answers

Continued references "Apocrypha":

http://www .earlychristianwritings.com/basilides.html

This link probably already submitted in this forum.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 07, 2003.

Rod, did you read the last verse from Thomas with reference to mary? What do you think?

I still think 70% of Thomas is biblical. It is the sayings of Jesus in a more original form as they appear in Mark, Matthew and Luke.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), October 14, 2003.

I vaguely remember some of the Mary history from Thomas. I think what caught my attention the most was the story of Ann. I would have to go back and re-read some more. The Thomas writings never comes out and proclaims Jesus as our Saviour.

It makes for some very tricky readings.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

It is interesting to note that some theologians believe that Thomas barrowed much from the synoptic Gospels. Basically, they are saying that Thomas was probably trying to evangelize to the Gnostics of his time by using the same gnostic style in his "barrowed" Gospels. This notion is reasonable, but from my point of view, very difficult to prove either way.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

"barrowed"? What in the world does that mean? I meant "borrowed". This is the problem with pretending to know several languages; I wind up butchering all of them.

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

Hey, Elpidio. I'm gonna say this and you'll probably disagree with me, big time.

There is a big significance to the believe in "transubstantiation". While the rest of the world was thinking symbolically, and therefore, going against the Gospel. What better way to seperate the believers from the non-believers, or, better yet, the gnostic thinkers from the faithful? How best to destroy a false religion than be destroying their concepts, their doctrine? Make their language a literal meaning rather than a figurative meaning. But, at the same time, one can turn their figurative meanings into a paradoxical meaning. "Eat" means to internalize cognitively, figurative. "Eat" changes to consume for nurishment, literal. "Eat" means to allow for the essence to exist inside the one who eats. The spirit indwells by internalizing. The meaning then becomes both figurative and literal. What Gnostic wouldn't walk away from such a paradox to their doctrine? For the Gnostic, it would be like using the right hand to hold the left them and then attempting to catch the left thumb with the left hand. They just couldn't get it. I think Jesus was showing the Jews their enslaved minds in gnosticism and how they couldn't think out of the box. The Jews were not about to let go of their doctrine and instead chose to let go of

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

The Jews were not about to let go of their doctrine and instead chose to let go of Jesus.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

Man! I just re-read what I wrote. I must be more tired than I thought. That made little sense and made for a fine example of extremely bad grammar. Sorry. I'm going to sleep.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2003.

Even though Tomas was found among Gnostic writings, Rod, its sayings are found in the gospels in a more concise form. I will list some of them later on.

I know that for the Gostics, Jesus was here only in appearance, that is why he couldn't die.

Now, in our mind, the bread and wine become the flesh and blood of Jesus, not in real life, Rod. Literally, they are never fully 100% flesh and blood.Transubstantiation is a dogma which was finally approved in the 16th century.

-- Elpidio gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), October 18, 2003.

Yes, Elpidio. I do recall that ambiguous definition of transubstantiation from the 16th Century Dogma. It is going to take a lifetime to get everything sorted out on this issue. I will get to the truth.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 18, 2003.

Elpidio-

Are you referring to Magdalene? I guess you are pointing to the idea that Magdalene was exalted higher than Jesus. Many of the Da Vinci Code fans seem to favor that notion. The Holy Grail is actually the code name for Mary Magdalene. It would make for a great plot for selling books. I tend to believe that Magdalene was a wealthy woman with a great belief in Jesus. There seems to be circumstantial evidence to imply her as His spouse. I can't believe this to be the truth. Hey, If I were here on earth to be sacrificed, I would have greater motives beyond human desires or customs. It is so illogical for Jesus to have married. What? Jesus loves all of humanity, but He loves Mary Magdalene more? That is crazy.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 20, 2003.

Hi, Rod.

Could Jesus be mariied to Mary Magdalene? Not enough evidence. John says that Jesus was at her house before his crucifixion. Like says that she listened to Jesus teaching as opposed to Martha. No Gospel either accepted or considered a fake says that.

Did Jesus love Mary? Yes. as a person yes. As a disciple , yes.As a woman , probably yes. Wouldn't you love a woman who cares what you have to say? Einstein did. He married Maleva who helped with his physics.. Gauss did. He corresponded with Sophie Germain for many years in math.He even recommended her to her a university degree. Abelard fell in love with Eloise. They eloped. And the list goes on.

Did Mary love Jesus: probably yes. She listened to his words. She took care of him. She was at his side during the crucifixion.She went to the tomb. She witnessed his resurrection. Strangely, Paul omits her at 1 Corinthians 15. The gospels don't.The gospels don't mention Jesus appearing to James , Paul does.

Saying of Thomas 114 says Jesus wants Mary to be part of his group on an equal footing as other male disciples were.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), October 22, 2003.