do ONLY Christians go to heaven?

-- Welp (satanswelp@HELL.org), September 26, 2003

Answers

No. Only those souls that have been judged by God to enter into the Kingdom of God. And, there is a way to eternal life.

rod..

..

.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 26, 2003.

Yes, only Christians go to heaven. True Christians that is. It's sorry to say, but "good" people do not make it to heaven. When you die, the true believers are taken to heaven; The unsaved are sent to Hades to wait for judgment day.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), September 26, 2003.

Sorry, I mean "good" people that do not have Christ in their life don't go to heaven.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), September 26, 2003.

How do we know if we have Christ in our lives?

-- gwen (gwen@panam.edu), September 27, 2003.

The operative word "Christian" and the syntax of the question makes the answer very exact. Even the stipulation of "True" Christian has added to my point. "Christian" means many things to many people. Mormons believe they are "Christian" along with Jehovah Witness and Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not saying that they are not going to Heaven. If one labels themselves "Christian"--as implied in the original question--does not automatically make them Saved. This is why I leave it up to God, not man, to judge. We know how man interprets the significance of other faiths/religions, but we do not know how God judges them. So, I'll stick with my interpretation:

Those who will be judged by God as being redeemed for Salvation will go to Heaven.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.

I mean "good" people that do not have Christ in their life don't go to heaven. (David)

The flip side to this idea would then be:

I mean "bad" people that do have Christ in their life do go to heaven.

I suppose the real issue here is the idea of "works". As in, "works" will not get you to Heaven. Let me remind us that "faith" without "works" is nothing. So, there has to be both and one without the other is fruitless. And, I sure that those "works" should be acts of goodness, yes?

..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.

Catholicism, Pentecostalism (AoG,Church of Christ), and others do acknowledge the existence of God's grace in other denominations/sects/you label it.

rod..

..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.

rod,

ONLY those who have obeyed the gospel will go to heaven for God has said that Jesus will return, "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thess 1:8-9).

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 27, 2003.

Yes. That is why I wrote "And, there is a way to eternal life."

rod..

..

.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.

rod,

My point is the ONLY CHRISTIANS are those who have "obeyed the gospel". There are NO Catholic-Christians, nor are there any Christians in any denomination.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 27, 2003.

Oh, Kevin.

Which Bible do you have complete faith in? True. The words used in the numerous versions and translations may seem trivial, but they do change the meanings of Scriptures. So, which Bible?

I ask this for the simple reason of determining which Bible is pure, correct, and infallible. When we read Scriptures, we read a human transposition, translation, and transliteration of an oral tradition. How I wish I could have walked with Jesus and learned directly from him. Instead, I must rely on the 2000 years of recorded history. Yes, I'm the "Doubting Thomas". "Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe".

I do respect your tenacity and faith. It is powerful.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.

rod,

I prefer the NKJV and anyone who reads this bible (and yes, even the NIV) someone can find out what they need to do in order to be saved.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 27, 2003.

I too have those in my library. I have a large collection of Bibles (mostly english and several spanish versions). I had a chance to buy a Geneva (britches) Bible; I was too slow and too thrifty. I wanted to read what the Pilgrims read. I wanted to see the Gospel through their eyes. They fled Catholicism.

rod..

..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 27, 2003.

"They fled Catholicism."

At least they had a chance to be saved for if they remained in Catholicism, they most certainly would be lost!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 29, 2003.

That Geneva Bible was one of those illiterate literary works. But, those pilgrims must have known what they were reading.

...just thought I should mention that.

rod..

..

.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 29, 2003.

if only people who beleive in Christ go to heaven,, that means,, EVERYONE in the old testament,, didnt go,,, that means,, jesus's parents DIDNT go to heaven. That means, 2/3's of the WORLD population DONT go to heaven. It means, EVERYONE that was born beofer christ,, DIDNT go to heaven, sionce the begining of time.

Yea,, that makes sense,,,,,,,,

-- Welp (satanswelp@HELL.org), October 01, 2003.

Welp, you are acting like a fool. Obviously, that does not make sense what you posted or think. You need to do some theological study before you make your claims. Ask a question, but if you are going to answer your own questions, why bother with the questions in the first place? That doesn't make sense.

Here is something that you need to consider, while condeming the pre-New Testament people and Protestant thinking:

Jesus Christ was sacrificed on the cross for the redemption of all who believe in him. Also, you must consider the Old Testament covenant with the Jewish people. Also, remember that Great Flood and the cleansing of the earth by God. Noah and his Ark have a purpose, too.

I'm pressed for time, so I might continue this discussion later.

rod..

..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2003.

Actually, we discussed something like this at my catechism classes a couple weeks ago. The 10 commandments are tan expression of the natural law, which man has within himself, even if he is not aware of the commandments. People who lived within the natural law before Christ go to heaven. Or if they don't have the opportunity in this life to know Him, then they are given that chance at some point. In purgatory, maybe? I'm tired...

-- gwen (gwen@panam.edu), October 01, 2003.

The Old Testament tells of people "talking" with God. This is why I made the statement earlier about God judging one for Salvation. This is why I did not include the "Christian" title in one who is saved. People? Is this mic on?

rod..

..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2003.

Only those souls that have been judged by God to enter into the Kingdom of God. And, there is a way to eternal life.

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2003.

Could this be why the Church has made it clear not to evangelize the Jewish faith? The Jewish people have their covenant, but we must also consider their denial of the New Testament. Some did convert/accept Christ.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2003.

This also brings me to think about pre-Christianity. The early pagan beliefs. I'm not so sure that they were "Satanic". I think that in every human lives the essence of God. Man had that thirst to know God, to be close to God, and to worship God. But, they didn't have the empirical proof or system to worship Him. They found what they could and turned their gaze upwards to the heavens. Eventually, time and wisdom and spirit filtered the good from the bad. Man had a knowledge of God before the dawn of our structured religion in God and Christ. But, most will disagree, so Welp what is your take on all of this?

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2003.

still waiting for an answer... if ONLY christians go to heaven, meaning non-christian cant go. (including the old testament people), heaven must be a white rascist place

-- Welp (satanswelp@HELL.org), October 03, 2003.

I never said "non-Christians" never will be in Heaven. And, I never implied that only the "white race" will be in Heaven. Obviously, you do not know of my race, ethnicity, or shoe size. Man is not responsible for putting people in Heaven. God does that.

Welp? Are you from hell? Your email address has me confused. Why the reference to hell in your email address? Do you have any desire to be in Heaven or are you just wondering about who would be in Heaven?

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 03, 2003.

Welp,

The people in the Old Testament are already in heaven. They went to heaven when Jesus died.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), October 03, 2003.

"they went to heaven when jesus died,"???? it took the 400 years to go to heaven...WOW.. where were they all that time? Detroit??????

-- Welp (satanswelp@HELL.org), October 03, 2003.

Hi Welp.

Eternity is timeless. You are putting human parameters on eternity. Time is irrelevant when eternity is endless. If it is easier for you to understand, then yes, they were in Detroit all of this "time". If you can come up with a better answer, let's hear it. Join in on our discussions with something a little more than the fodder you've been throwing at us, uh......please?

rod..

..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 03, 2003.

They were in Hades, a compartment of Hell. But even then, God was Just and seperated the good from the bad.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), October 03, 2003.

From the beginning, when sin entered the world, people looked forward to the coming Messiah, the One that would save them from their sins. Remember all the lamb sacrifices? They confessed their sin and through the lamb's spilt blood looked forward to the time when Jesus, the real Lamb sacrifice, would die for their sins. So, these people were still followers, or believers, in Christ. "Christian" means follower of "Christ",and "Christ" means "Saviour".

And no, I do not believe they are all in heaven now. Doesn't 1Thess4:16-18 say that when Jesus returns that the dead "in Christ" (those who love and follow Christ)shall rise first, then we (persons in Christ)who are alive and remain shall be caught up with them, in the clouds, and so shall we ever be with the Lord?

The dead are now in the grave, both righteous and unrighteous, until Jesus comes again.(See Dan.12:2, John5:28,29).

-- dusty miller (animalubber@yahoo.com), November 08, 2003.

The Catholic Church says: "There is a remote possibility of salvation outside The Church ~ but there are criteria; Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience?those too may achieve eternal salvation."

God says that Jesus will return: "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

You can either believe the Catholic Church, or believe God, the choice is yours to make.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2003.

okay Welp, lets see if i can explain this to you. up until jesus christ was born, people had to send sacrifices to God and what not in order to be forgiven of their sin. "acts" do not save or damn you. if you truely believe in God AND accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior and Lord, than even if the demons tempt you into killing 1000 people, and then you ask God for forgiveness in Jesus name, you will be forgiven and go to heaven. i am non-demoninational christian, "Believe and recieve." its a free gift, and its your choice wheather or not you want to accept it. also, Jesus' parents did believe he was the son of god too, dont u remember, an angel appeared to mary and TOLD her, and she told david. anyway, i hope that you find God in your life welp, good day.

-- AJ (fywdragon@comcast.net), November 11, 2003.

Kevin quoted from THE 1620 YEAR OLD (Written, Sifted, Identified, Assembled, Published, Correctly Interpreted, and Correctly Applied by the Eternal Most Holy Catholic Church with the Guidance of the Most Holy Spirit) MOST HOLY CATHOLIC BIBLE, "God says that Jesus will return: "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ said to obey this Commandment:

"I TELL YOU MOST SOLEMNLY, IF YOU DO NOT EAT THE FLESH OF THE SON OF MAN AND DRINK HIS BLOOD, YOU WILL NOT HAVE LIFE IN YOU." (John 6:53)

Kevin VEHEMENTLY REFUSES to obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 12, 2003.

James makes the bold claim that I have not obeyed the gospel of Christ, but yet this man does NOT even know what the gospel of Christ is!!!

James quotes John 6:53 which says, "Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." and says this is the gospel!!!

James fails to realize that Jesus EXPLAINED what he meant in John 6:53 when He wrote, "THE SPIRIT GIVES LIVE; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63).

Here is the gospel:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you THE GOSPEL which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures, and that HE WAS BURIED, and that HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

You can either believe James, or God. The choice is yours to make!!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 12, 2003.

Kevin makes the bold claim that he had obeyed the Gospel of Christ, but yet this man does NOT even know what the Gospel of Christ is!!!

Kevin quotes John 6:53 which says, "Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." and says this is NOT the gospel!!!

Kevin misunderstood AGAIN what Jesus meant in John 6:53 when He wrote, "THE SPIRIT GIVES LIVE; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life." (John 6:63).

Kevin misinterpreted AGAIN this gospel:

"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you THE GOSPEL which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures, and that HE WAS BURIED, and that HE ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the Scriptures, (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

You can either believe Kevin, or God. The choice is yours to make!!!!

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 12, 2003.

Dear readers,

Please notice that ALL that James can do is to MOCK what I have said on many different threads.

James once again PROVES that he really does NOT know what he is talking about!!!

Anyone who can READ can PLAINLY see that the gospel is NOT as James states in eating the flesh and blood for there is NOT even any mention of this in the text.

Anyone can PLAINLY read that the GOSPEL IS EXACTLY as the Apostle Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The gospel IS the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ and I CHALLENGE James or anyone else to PROVE otherwise.

If 1 Cor. 15:1-4 is NOT the gospel as Paul states, then James is accusing the Apostle Paul of LYING.

The answer is EASY to see unless of course you do NOT understand the Bible and need to have someone interpret it for you!!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 13, 2003.

What is wrong with addressing you in exactly the same manner in which you address me or the Most Holy Catholic Church?

Please notice that ALL that Kevin can do is to Lie about the Most Holy Catholic Church on many different threads.

The proof you need is already in your hands ~ The Most Holy Catholic Bible ~ however, you have an incomplete protestant version. The other proof you need is the Sacred Tradition of the Most Holy Apostles.

Kevin once again PROVES that he really does NOT know what he is talking about!!!

Is there still hope for Kevin?

Anyone who can READ can PLAINLY see that the gospel is NOT as Kevin states regarding the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ for the Correct Interpretation of this Gospel is a Literal one ~ the Correct Interpretation of the Holy Apostles as they heard it right from the Mouth of Jesus Christ, even before it was written as Sacred Scripture.

Anyone can PLAINLY read that the GOSPEL IS in harmony with what the Apostle Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. The gospel IS the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Jesus Christ and so is the Celebration and Sacrifice of the Most Holy Mass and I CHALLENGE Kevin to PROVE otherwise.

Kevin has Zero understanding of the Most Holy Mass.

Kevin misunderstood AGAIN 1 Cor. 15:1-4 when he accused James of LYING.

The answer is EASY to see for Catholics. The answer is hard to see for someone like Kevin who audaciously misinterprets the Most Holy Catholic Bible in the privacy of his own room and own mind.!!!!

Those eternal souls who reject the Authority of the Most Holy Eternal Church are in great danger.

-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 15, 2003.

What you stated in your last statements, James, agrees with Paul;s words in Ch 11 of 1 Corinthians, the oldest version of the last supper, known also as the Eucharist. Ch. 15 also from ! corinthians agres with. Ch. 11.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 15, 2003.

James PROVES by his very words that he still does NOT understand the word of God!!!

The apostle Paul PLAINLY stated that the GOSPEL was the DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION of Christ in 1 Cor 15:1-4.

It is INTERESTING to note that NOT once does any apostle EVER state that the Lord's Supper was the GOSPEL.

We REMEMBER Jesus death when we partake of the LORD's SUPPER (eating the bread AND drinking the fruit of the vine) but there is NO mention of this being the gospel. If you make the Lord's Supper (what Catholics call the Eucharist) then you put your faith in some wafer instead of Jesus DEATH, BURIAL and RESURRECTION!!!

When we partake of the Lord's Supper, it is EXACTLY as Paul stated in 1 Cor 11:23-26, "For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took BREAD; and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; THIS IS MY BODY WHICH IS BROKEN FOR YOU; DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME." In the same manner He also took the CUP after supper, saying, "THIS CUP IS THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD. THIS DO, AS OFTEN AS YOU DRINK IT, IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME." For as often as you EAT THIS BREAD and DRINK THIS CUP, you PROCLAIM THE LORD's DEATH TILL HE COMES.

We observe the Lord's supper in REMEMBRANCE of Jesus DEATH!!! There is NO MENTION nor is there even any hint that this is the GOSPEL as James FALSELY asserts. Please notice that James (once again) does NOT provide ANY proof to back up his ASSERTION that the Lord's Supper (eucharist) is the GOSPEL. Nor will you likely hear any biblical proof coming from him for his assertion is just that, an assertion. I am sure that if he had proof, he would provide it!!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 15, 2003.

There is but one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ(1 Timothy 2:5). Jesus (not any one denomination) will be judging us. If one calls on the name of the Lord and repents, then he is a Christian be he Catholic, Baptist, AoG, or whatever. Can we get back to the original subject? Infighting between denominations only turns off non believers. I am trying to convice some of my friends to accept Jesus, and can use further thoughts on the subject.

-- jason (jasonhiney@hotmail.com), November 25, 2003.

jason,

The best way to bring your friends to Christ is by showing the Christ in you. Everwhere Jesus went there were religous leaders who were so sure they were right in their ways, but something still drew them to Jesus. Something made them curious on just who this man was. Do your friends see you in that way? Can they tell the difference between you and them?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), November 25, 2003.

jason,

What does it mean to "call on the name of the Lord"???

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 28, 2003.

God says in Hebrews 10:10, "By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

There is NO mention of Jesus body and blood LITERALLY having to be sacrificed "over" and "over" as Catholics FALSELY allege.

Hebrews 10:11-18 says, "And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin."

This verse: "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," fits PERFECTLY with what Jesus said in John 6:63, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

Jesus said in Matthew 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away."

Jesus words will NOT pass away because we have the WRITTEN word of God!!!

We are "born again" THROUGH the word of God (not by eating some wafer) for 1 Peter 1:23 says, "having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever"

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 28, 2003.

Kevin,

I would submit that to call on the name of the Lord is to acknowledge his position as the almighty and to make a plea for mercy and forgiveness. It would also be to seek him, to serve him and to maintain a relationship with him. Paraphrased out of the catechism, I believe. This phrase can be found in Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13. This, I believe is the foundation of Christianity along with Christ crucified and risen. But then again "Christ" and "Lord" can be used interchangeably in many cases. It is beautiful in simplicity, and it has to be simple to accomodate those with only base intelligence.

-- jason (jasonhiney@hotmail.com), November 28, 2003.

Kevin,

Here's one of the sticking points I have with Catholocism. Just to give a little background - My wife is a devout Catholic and I am AoG, so this makes a rocky path for our marriage sometimes but we both love and respect each other as Christians. Some of the most devout Christians I know are Catholic. So your discussions with James sound very familiar. Do you believe that the eucharist is the physical presence of Jesus? This would require the wine to taste and smell like blood. Maybe this happens sometimes as miracles have been reported, but most of the time it does not. If the wine does not have the physical properties of blood, then by definition it is not physically blood. To believe such would not be faith. I have heard it said that "faith is the hope for things not seen". In this case we have physical evidence that the wine is still wine. That is much different than faith in Christ where Christ is not seen. Thus, logic shows us that the wine cannot physically be blood, and Christ would not ask us to ignore logic. He asks us to have faith. Anyway, the awesome power of the Eucharist/communion is in the spirit even as Jesus says and James quotes above. This is only logical since God is first and foremost a spirit and Jesus had to become man.

I will be unavilable for 2 weeks after sending this but will reply upon return. God bless you and peace be unto you.

-- jason (jasonhiney@hotmail.com), November 28, 2003.

Hey, sorry about getting James and Kevin mixed up above. So my short term memory is terrible, but my logic stands.

-- jason (jasonhiney@hotmail.com), November 28, 2003.

jason,

No, I don't believe in the "real presence" of Jesus in some wafer as Catholics allege. Jesus NEVER said that a wafer would ever become His LITERAL body and blood as this is something that Catholics CANNOT prove.

Here is what it means to "call on the name of the Lord":

Romans 10:13 states, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Some say that this is justification for praying a sinner's prayer However, this is NOT what this verse is saying.

There are three questions asked about this in verse 14:

1) "And how shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? 2) And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? 3) And how shall they hear without a preacher?"

To call on the name of the Lord one has to have heard the word because "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Rom. 10:17).

How did people respond to the gospel message preached to them?

They cried out "what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37) and were told to "Repent and be Baptized" (Acts 2:38).

According to Acts 2:21 this is calling on the name of the Lord to be saved.

It is NOT saying a prayer to be saved.

It is Hearing, Believing, Repenting, Confessing and being Baptized.

Paul knew this because Ananias came into the house where he was down praying and told him "And now why tarriest thou? Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16). Here is one praying the sinner's prayer and had been praying it for three days but was told that instead of tarrying around praying he needed to arise and be baptized and wash away his sins.

You see the only way to get into the death of Christ is to be baptized into His death (Rom. 6:3).

You DO NOT get into the death of Christ by praying the sinner's prayer.

In contrast you do have the blood to cleanse if, as an erring child of God, you confess your sins and pray for forgiveness (1 John 1:7-9).

Jesus gave a parable in Luke 18:9-14 of a Pharisee and a Publican praying. The Pharisee told God how good he was while the Publican "smote on his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner." The Lord said he was justified rather than the Pharisee.

Now this is NOT an example of conversion by the sinner's prayer either.

These were both children of God under the law of Moses and so fall into the category of erring children. Such are to repent and pray for forgiveness (Acts 8:22-24).

God is NO respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34-35).

The people of the first century had to Believe, Repent, Confess and be Baptized to be saved which are same things we have to do to be saved.

To be a Christian, one must OBEY FROM THE HEART! What must he obey? "THAT FORM OF DOCTRINE." (Romans 6:17-18).

Of a truth, this doctrine or teaching implies commandments given from on high, and requires that one OBEY to be free from sin.

If you Believe Jesus to be the Son of God and are willing to Repent of your sins and acknowledge your faith in Christ by Confessing it publicly as Jesus said in Matt. 10:32, then all that is lacking is your being Baptized into Christ and thereby putting on Christ (Galatians 3:27).

Why not accept the truth of Christ, OBEY His gospel plan (Romans 1:16) and become simply and only a Christian and a member of Christ's blood bought body, His church, the church of Christ?

God bless you and have a safe trip.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 28, 2003.

Through-out this thread, people have been trying to determine their eventual fate as christians and non-christians alike. Yet, when considering all of the answers so far, no one has given a direct set of scriptures that answers these questions:

1) Will only christians go to heaven?

2) Will all non-christians (even those who have had no possible way of hearing Christ's gospel) go to hell?

If someone here can quote a set of scriptures that definitively answers those two questions, I would much appreciate it.

I think God is a just God - he would not summarily condemn billions of souls to the depths of hell only because they were born into regions not influenced by Christianity (or Catholicism for that matter).

-- Aaron J.S. Outram (alpha_and_omega2001@hotmail.com), January 17, 2004.

Aaron?

Do you have Scriptures to back up your assertions?

.........................................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), January 17, 2004.

"1) Will only christians go to heaven? "

Yes.

"2) Will all non-christians (even those who have had no possible way of hearing Christ's gospel) go to hell?"

Yes, you cannot go to heaven without knowing Christ. If there was another way, then it'd be shown in the bible.

"If someone here can quote a set of scriptures that definitively answers those two questions, I would much appreciate it."

Mark 16:16b, "he who does not believe is damned"[paraphrase]. Read the book of John too.

"I think God is a just God - he would not summarily condemn billions of souls to the depths of hell only because they were born into regions not influenced by Christianity (or Catholicism for that matter)."

Then we shouldn't preach, the more people that don't know about Christ the better. That would be a great evangelism tool. More people go to heaven that way right?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), January 17, 2004.

Aaron,

Only those who have obeyed the gospel will go to heaven for it is the gospel that is God's POWER to salvation!!! (Romans 1:16).

Those who have never heard of the gospel AND those who do not obey the gospel will be lost for Jesus will return, "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thess 1:8).

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that one must obey the gospel in order to get to heaven, neither does any denominational body teach that one must obey the gospel in order to be saved.

Faith does NOT come from the Catholic Church as they would have you believe, it comes from the word of God for this is what Romans 10:17 teaches.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), January 19, 2004.

"The Catholic Church does NOT teach that one must obey the gospel in order to get to heaven, neither does any denominational body teach that one must obey the gospel in order to be saved."

Kevin, can you support this with Scripture ?!?! or is this your own "personal interpretation" of "something".

on a more serious note, it follows (see another thread) that Kevin and David must, from the above posts, believe that:-

(1) mentally disabled people are damned

(2) those pre-dating Our Lord are damned

(3) those growing up in non-Christian countries are damned (including those that never had any opportunity to hear the Word, such as their disabled, ...... and young, and new born,....)

(4) aborted foeti are damned

(5) ..i can list others,..

scripyure, ignored by the scripturists, seems to offer some salutary relief for such persons:-

St. Mark 10: 14, "....Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God."

St. Matthew 3:7, "And seeing many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them: Ye brood of vipers, who hath shewed you to flee from the wrath to come?"

i'm sure there is plenty more -- but that all depends upon your "personal point of view".

i'm sure that a private interpretation could easily be swayed by a personal tragedy, or some other such occurrence.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 20, 2004.

I wrote, "The Catholic Church does NOT teach that one must obey the gospel in order to get to heaven, neither does any denominational body teach that one must obey the gospel in order to be saved."

To which Ian replied, "Kevin, can you support this with Scripture ?!?! or is this your own "personal interpretation" of "something"."

Since the doctrines of the Catholic Church CANNOT be found in scripture, how can I support something that is not there to begin with???

Catholics claim that an infant can obey the gospel and be saved???

Scripture????

God says that Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17).

Please do tell everyone here Ian which infant is able to hear and UNDERSTAND the word of God???

This is IMPOSSIBLE, so infants are NOT candidates to be saved for they have NO SINS TO REMIT.

Ian wrote, "on a more serious note, it follows (see another thread) that Kevin and David must, from the above posts, believe that:- (1) mentally disabled people are damned"

No, I never said this Ian and I challenge you to provide the EXACT words where I have said this to be true. If you CANNOT, then you are a LIAR. Mentally disabled people CANNOT sin, and they are in the same situation as children, they are saved.

Ian continued, "(2) those pre-dating Our Lord are damned"

Once again Ian continues the Catholic tradition of "putting words in someone's mouth" for I never made this statement and once again I challenge Ian to cut and paste my words and if he cannot, then he is a LIAR.

Ian continued, "(3) those growing up in non-Christian countries are damned (including those that never had any opportunity to hear the Word, such as their disabled, ...... and young, and new born,....)"

How does one get faith??? (See Romans 10:17).

What does God say about those who DO NOT KNOW GOD??? (See 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9).

Ian continued, "(4) aborted foeti are damned"

Once again, I challenge Ian to cut and paste my words where I have stated this to be true. If infants have no sin (and they do not and are therefore saved), then also the "aborted foeti" are also saved.

Ian, I have asked you this question before and you did not answer it, please tell everyone here WHAT IS SIN???

Ian wrote, "scripyure, ignored by the scripturists, seems to offer some salutary relief for such persons:- St. Mark 10: 14, "....Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not; for of such is the kingdom of God."

Of course, infants are safe and have NO SIN that is why Jesus was able to say "for of such is the kingdom of God".

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), January 20, 2004.

here's some cut and paste:

"Those who have never heard of the gospel AND those who do not obey the gospel will be lost for Jesus will return, "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Thess 1:8). "

have little babies "heard of the Bible"? have those that are severely mentally disabled heard of the Bible.

in both cases, they are unable to go to the toilet themselves, let alone comprehend Scripture.

there you go.

as for this: "Ian, I have asked you this question before and you did not answer it, please tell everyone here WHAT IS SIN???"

where exactly did you ask me. i do not recall being asked, nor do i have a problem answering. show me where you asked me before. or start a thread as this is getting cluttered.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 21, 2004.

who said this?!?!

"If I am guilty of twisting scripture to add water baptism to salvation, then first you need to be able to PROVE that water baptism is NOT part of the salvation process. I have shown you numerous times where water baptism IS REQUIRED in order to be saved, and all you do is come back and tell me that I am twisting scripture without even bothering to PROVE me wrong. This is typical of all false teachers who do NOT respect the word of God."

-- Ian (ib@vrtigo.com), January 21, 2004.

Ian,

You are correct and I was WRONG. It was David that I had asked "What is sin" on another thread, NOT you. Please forgive me for my error.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), January 21, 2004.

no worries Kevin. humanum est errare and i am living proof.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), January 22, 2004.

As far as the old testement Jews were concerned, all that were awaiting the coming of the Messiah and followed the old covenent laws given by Moses were taken into Heaven upon death. We do know that the body is in the grave and awaits to be resurected and reunited with the soul, however, the soul is with the Lord in heaven if the person was a believer, as far as the dead that died without Christ, it is uncertain of where they are now, some say they are sent directly into Hell, as the story of Lazarus and the rich man would imply, others say that even those souls are with the Lord, but when reunited with their bodies, they will be cast into hell at that time. "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"

-- Don Schmidt (nscaledon@netzero.net), January 24, 2004.

this site helps a lot. you should check it out for a somewhat informative answer. take care

http://www.angelfire.com/journal/althehare/inclusive.html

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-- Someone Anonymous (silveradio182@hotmail.com), June 21, 2004.

sometimes we just have to have fait with the answers we will never fully be able to answer. god will do what is right..he is the truth

-- me (silverchair7983@yahoo.com), June 21, 2004.

For Kevin..,

You said:

ONLY those who have obeyed the gospel will go to heaven for God has said that Jesus will return,

"in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thess 1:8-9).

Those verses speak about the time when Christ returns to judge the unbelievers....

He has already taken the Church up to Him and when He returns to judge the remaining unbeleivers--we are riding with Christ. Notice that your verses only speak to the destruction of unbelievers....

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 21, 2004.

Faith, did you just post that right now?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), June 21, 2004.

What do you mean? Right now? I posted it with the date you see attached to it--if that's what you mean.

I have to say that I wasn't aware that it was such an old post until after the fact. Otherwise I probably would not have responded. Someone pulled it up from old threads. I don't know why people do that. It is pretty annoying. They should just start a new thread and pose their question...

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), June 22, 2004.

will my homie tupac and biggy smalls go to heaven?.. what the heezy for sheezie

-- kayay west (haha@boohoo.com), June 30, 2004.

Kevin are you saying that I have to follow every single thing in the Bible, and if I slip up I'll go to hell? Kevin, there's a reason for Christ's death!

-- Logan James Trussell (Logant12590@hotmail.com), September 13, 2004.

"do ONLY Christians go to heaven? "

what a question.

salvation cannot be earned; it is a gift.

is that not the start?

thereafter we look to the teachings of the Church.

they seem clear.

and they urge us to concentrate on conversion as opposed to speculation.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), September 13, 2004.

in this debate, pls bear in mind that Abraham was not Christian.

there are plenty of other examples.

there may well be Apaches in Heaven. I hope so.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), September 13, 2004.

Yup, I'll say it again; Only those souls that have been judged by God to enter into the Kingdom of God, will go to Heaven.

.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 13, 2004.

Hey Rod!

did the Apaches have KJV?!?!

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), September 13, 2004.

Hi Ian.

I read somewhere that the early Native Americans did not have the concept of "sin". Yes, they believed that good and evil exists and they also maintained a firm belief in a "messiah" (obviously not Jesus, though).

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 13, 2004.

1. NATIVE MEXICAN DO BELIEVE IN JESUS GOD THE FATHER MESSIAH SO DONT DIS THE NATIVE AMERICANS WE LOVE GOD EVEN THOUGH IM MEXICAN BLACK NATIVE AMERICAN IT SOESNT MATTER IM GONNA LOVE GOD ANYWAY DONT JUDGE ME ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE ME UNO AMOR

-- ASHLEY SCOTT (LOSANGELESGIRL2004@YAHOO.COM), October 15, 2004.

I dis nobody.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 15, 2004.

No. Nowhere in the bible does it mention going to heaven when one dies. In fact it is written in John 3:13: "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] who is in heaven." This scripture makes 2 significant points to our discussion here. First, these are Jesus' own words. If anyone had gone to heaven, Jesus would know about it. Second, John recorded these words many years after Jesus died and ascended to heaven-still affirming that no one other than Jesus had gone to heaven. If you would like to know more (I am runnig out of room) email me. :)

-- JS (czeck_shell@hotmail.com), March 08, 2005.

Oh, regarding the above, please dont email me about the Thief on the Cross as proof we go to Heaven when we die. Why?? "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43) Jesus lay in the grave for three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40).

Nowhere does the Scriptures say that His body was buried and His soul went elsewhere. Jesus died and was buried. He went only to the grave. Therefore the dying criminal could not have joined Jesus in paradise that day, because He was not even there. What did Jesus mean ?? Simple. His reply, "Assuredly I say to you today" was "a common Hebrew idiom ... which is constantly used for very solemn emphasis" (The Companion Bible, 1990, Appendix 173, p. 192) and It wasn't until many centuries later that the punctuation marks that we see in our English versions were inserted. When commas were added, Jesus' meaning was distorted and this Hebrew figure of speech obscured.. "Assuredly I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43)

-- JS (czeck_shell@hotmail.com), March 08, 2005.

Did not Paul say "To be Abscent form the Boy is to be preasent with the Lord?"

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 08, 2005.

Well, Zarove, you fixed your first thread.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 08, 2005.

Yes, I did.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 08, 2005.

JS,

At the time Jesus made that statement, that was true, but when Jesus ascended into Heaven, He opened the gates and now those who die can get there. The Church has always believed that from the beginning. Who else was John viewing in Revelations surrounding the throne of God in worship but the 24 elders? And what was the multitude under the throne but the martyrs who were killed for their faith in Christ? You see, God's Word clearly shows that Heaven is quite populated with men and women now. Prior to Christ's ascension, the righteous of the Old Covenant awaited their Messiah in Abraham's bosom or Paradise. But after Jesus ascended, He led them into Heaven.

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (no@spam.com), March 09, 2005.