Hello Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Agnostics, Gnostics, Confused, and Others.

If you are going to read the Jack Chick comics, you should also read his victim's defense. One sided arguments don't amount to very much unless you truly wish to live with blinders on.

At least read their defense against Jack Chick's comics.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 22, 2003

Answers

Let's get to the nitty-gritty of all of this mess about the Catholic Church.

Is the Church truly what Jack Chick says? Or , do people want to believe that the Church is Satanic? Is it fair to see only one side without going in and uncovering the truth from the lies? Will you at least take the time to find out what is really going on here? I sure do want to know if Satan roams around in the Catholic Church. So, let's put an end to this sometime before we all die and have our judgement day; it sure will be a bad day if it turns out we've been believing in a lie, yes?

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 22, 2003.

I used to have a little collection of those comics. I find them funny but I know some who find them offensive. He takes on everyone, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, and I guess everyone who doesn't subscribe to his particular world view. I have read all the anti Catholic ones and his depictions are nothing but a comical representation of the 'same old, same old" arguments. However, I think he is sincere in his beliefs and is concerned for people's souls. He is a great conspiracy theorist, and one of my favorite comics is the one where Satan is in hell watching "Bewitched". But I've gotta hand it to him, because people love comics. It's the perfect genre for communicating sometimes.

As for your second post/question, I believe the Catholic Church to be the Bride of Christ because of personal faith that I've been given, so I don't worry too much about what Jack Chick says. I was not raised in any religion and I see my faith as a gift that I am lucky to possess. But it makes sense to me intellectually as well. Protestantism came out of (and away from) Catholicism in 1517. Now I may not like everything that the Church or JPII does but I'm not going to run and try to find the truth in one of hundreds of sects that all seem to have disagreements and many without any real authority. I would rather have the Mass than have a 'worship service'. If you read the writings of the Church Fathers you will see how Purgatory, the Eucharist, the communion of the saints, and a lot of what Protestants say are incorrect doctrines keep coming up in the writings, because they are Christian doctrines.

-- gwen (gwen@panam.edu), September 23, 2003.

Gwen, WOW, your post was great!! Couldn't have said it greater myself. After being churned around within Protestantism for 20 some years, I am finally, unequivocally, happily HOME!! Ahhh, yes, the Church Fathers, what a blessing to have their writings available (and on-line). The treasury of the Church is its Saints!

God Bless you,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 23, 2003.

Hi everybody.

Many of Chick's propaganda against the Church have been used on me to "escape" the Church. I now have come to that realization after investigating some of Jack's comics. One anti-Catholic (and ex-Catholic) told me a story about his dying aunt and the demonic torment she experienced. I read the same exact story in Jack's comics. Hmm? Was that just a well rehearsed story told to me?

I recently stumbled across another Chick publication, "Two Babylons" by Hislop. I guess Chick bought the rights to that book. That book could very well be the anti-Catholic's bible.

Let me warn everyone; I'm looking for the truth. Please don't assume that every answer is accepted as the truth. I'm very cautious about what I read and hear.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 23, 2003.

Gwen writes:

"Now I may not like everything that the Church or JPII does but I'm not going to run and try to find the truth in one of hundreds of sects that all seem to have disagreements and many without any real authority. "

Experiments and tests must be repeated and duplicated many times before a conclusion can be reached. My lab work is still in progress. Some of you know how I feel about returning to my birth Church. My heart is willing, but my mind isn't.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 23, 2003.

Hi, rod. I have read parts of that book and am familiar with Hislop's claims. Is it being reprinted? I think I remember reading a copy that was quite old...

One of Hislop's pet theories is that Catholicism developed from paganism and is simply a rehash of the old gods and goddesses. He'll point out all the 'evidences' connecting the Catholic church with paganism. But atheists, agnostics and humanists say the same thing about Christianity as a whole, so where do you draw the line? He also uses the post hoc ergo proper hoc fallacy big time, as if anything remotely reminicent of pagan practices must have derived from paganism.

I enjoyed reading it (and Chick tracts) with the same relish as I enjoy conspiracy theories (Kennedy, Illuminati, and Paul is Dead, etc). The arguments are based on jumps in logic and don't hold up, but there's something enjoyable about them.

By the way rod, in the above comment where you quote me I was referring to myself ("I'm not going to run and try to find the truth in one of hundreds of sects") , and not trying to make a personal comment about your own spiritual/ religious path. Likewise my comment about a worship service. I hope you didn't take it that way.

gwen

-- gwen (gwen@panam.edu), September 23, 2003.

rod,

Anything against the Roman Church is propaganda to Romanists.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), September 23, 2003.

Hislop reminds me of a lunatic who is cutting the tiny edges of jigsaw puzzles in order to complete the picture, which is obviously distorted. It is my firm belief that the human mind is universal and will surmise concepts and theologies in unison or even harmony. But, the truth is more universal than anything man could imagine. I hope that made sense; I've just finished reading a book about Gnosticism. When Gnostics put puzzles together, all the pieces fit precisely well. The problem then becomes apparent when the puzzles are completed. The observer is left with this aching question: What is it?

Anyway....

I was once an altar boy. Saturday evening mass was the most nerve racking for me. It was inevitable that Fr. Leo would find me sitting at the back of the church. I could never hide well enough from his power of vision. I dreaded the raising of his arm and aiming of his index finger that seemed to target me with the most extreme prejudice. Yes. I was being summoned to fulfill my duty as "altar boy". It wasn't that I didn't like the idea of being an altar boy. It was that I could never get the mass order figured out. Somehow, my altar training had overlooked me, typical. It never failed that I would mess something up every mass that had me as the sole servant. But, this I do remember with great joy. The mass was holy. I felt that I was in the presence of God. I do not feel this during my present church service. The feeling of attending a Bible lecture or Bible study group is more the presence. The other joy was in knowing that Fr. Leo was an excellent role model. He was what I wanted to be--a priest. He was strong; his handshakes had a meaning. That meaning is clear today, after his life on earth has since passed. His powerful (painful) handshake was a message about being strong while having to suffer the things that we do. It was a message of faith. It got to the point that I didn't fear his handshakes. I suppose that he helped me get stronger in many ways.

Things changed when Fr. Leo left. I heard that he had died when I was in college. That was about the same time that my faith in the Church had also died. Strange.

I wonder if I have changed that drastically or if society has. I can't find that "holiness" I once felt in church. That's what I truly miss. Some call the mass another "funeral service"; I call it a fear of God. It is a fear of being in the presence of God. I don't mean the fear we have of disease or a car accident; I mean the awe of being with God. But, I was a ch

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 23, 2003.

That last word should have been "child".

David writes:

"Anything against the Roman Church is propaganda to you Catholics."

There are many things said about many things. Here is a list:

1. criticism.
2. ignorant lies.
3. misinterpretations.
4. flat out lies--propaganda.

Parts 1, 2, and 3 can be ironed out, eventually. Propaganda is another weapon in a war. I have never used propaganda against the Assemblies of God or the Church of Christ. I look for the truths that can be found there, as I do with any denomination or doctrine or faith system. Propaganda is for people who want to destroy an institution or a soul.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 23, 2003.

Our altar boys always look somewhere between a bit nervous and terribly anxious. Especially at the Latin Mass, you can see in their faces that are trying to keep up with the priest's quick Latin. Society and the Mass have both changed. I think a lot of the 'fear of God' went out when the focus at Mass became more horizontal rather than vertical.

-- gwen (gwen@panam.edu), September 23, 2003.

I keep hearing that the Church is becoming more like the Protestant church. I do remember when the Charismatic movement started to infiltrate the Church. Hey, I also remember the rail and kneeling for communion. And, today I'm confused about SSPX. Yes it is ok, but it isn't ok.

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 24, 2003.

Rod, Excellent point on "Propaganda." Propaganda is the greatest tool used in our society today, and yesterday too! Check out Hitler's great propaganda war against Jews!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 24, 2003.

Chick this out.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), December 20, 2003.