Where has the Fire Gone

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at annual conferences pastors stand and read their annual reports. conversions accesions so on and so on. some claim 1 some say 0 and we laugh or some questions arise. we think they would be embarressed to announce numbers like that after a year of work and preaching. but i was thinking as i travel all these different conferences i see something in common. david said i once was young but now i'm old but i never seen the rightous forsaken. i think i am going to insert my own terminology and say i never seen people saved at a ame conference or delivered. where has the fire gone. the best conference that i really look foward to is church growth. with dr.champion. he puts on a wonderful conference. i hope when becomes a bishop he keeps it up. my question is if we claim to have the best preachers and pastors. why do people come to church one way and leave the same way. i posed a question to the entire church where has the fire gone. and can we get it turned back on.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2003

Answers

First, I curious as to what were your numbers for this conference year? That would give us a frame of reference as to what you consider adequate. Second, it is not the pastor alone; sheep beget sheep, not shepherds. Jesus said that we should all go; not just the pastors. The Lay witness is what brings the lost into contact with the church. Third, the Conference is a place to report on the labors, recharge our batteries, and learn. The hard work is in the local church. In my opinion, we as AMEs, place far too much emphasis and money on the corporate structure of our denomination, Conferences, election of officers, etc.and not enough attention or money focused on the local church. I consider the local church as the most important link in the chain. Therefore the pastor and members of the local church are the most essential part of the church. After, we have no need for the top, if there is no bottom.

-- Anonymous, September 20, 2003

This is an interesting subject. There are many circuits and stations in our zion that are posting 0 and 1 for the number of accessions and conversions in the past year. We do not like this or are we overjoyed with our status quo. We need a fresh anointing of evangelistic fervor to come over us. Perhaps Pastor Al is correct, we do not put enough emphasis on the local church and the budget pressures do distract from the great commission at many of our stations and circuits. We lay and clergy need to refocus and renergize our efforts at outreach. Many of our churches have few visitors and many of our members are not actively reaching those who are lost. WE NEED FRESH FIRE!!!!

-- Anonymous, September 22, 2003

I never fail to be amused at Quarterly Conference at the "voodoo mathematics" that take place in this regard.

We state xxxx members, then so many deaths, those left with or without letter [which somehow is ALWAYS zero], new members, etc., and somehow the final count is always the same as we started -- with no gain or loss.

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2003


There seems to be a heavy emphasis on preaching in the AME church. Correct me if I am wrong because I have not been AME that long but as I have visited many of the churches in my conferences, there seems to be a void in the type of ministires which empower the laity to think of anything outside of the local church. Much of the focus seems to be on maintenance which gets old and routine over time. Preaching is a wonderful thing but how many people really remember the sermon at the end of the week? And you can preach folk into membership and salvation but if there is nothing really in place to move them from the intial stages of salvation, how long will they stay? And another thing how many of our members just enjoy being spectators and desire to do noting else. As a aspiring future Pastor, I think fire comes from leadership and should spread throughout the flock. My feeling is that we (the church) do not do a good job of helping people get beyond the things that hinder their development as Christians like education, discipling, and healing. If folk can get beyond their on stuff, there is a good chance that they can understand the reality of the great commission and maybe just maybe revival can take place.

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2003

"Where has the fire gone?" is certainly a question worth significant discussion. However, I think we should be careful when we link it to the numbers who have joined and conversions in a given year. Those numbers alone don't tell you much about whether the Pastor is doing her job or whether there is a "fire". Many demographic circumstances do not lend themselves to accessions etc. In some cases there ought to be embarassment on the part of everybody about the lack of numerical growth, but it's not always clear simply from the Pastor's report. There are always other numbers that are not requested and are not reported like how many times the Pastor went to check on sick members, how many times she prayed with a family in distress, how many times she stood by the grave side to give comfort, how many times she encourage some young person to believe in their divine purpose. Some fires burn unseen. I have a great deal of admiration for Pastors who have been faithful and honest to report 1 or zero when they have tried their best to cultivate the ground with worn out tools. Many of them are the real heroes of African Methodism. We give great attention to those who are like Simon Peter, who can preach one sermon and have 3,000 souls join the church. And we should praise God for such gifts within our Zion. But we must never forget the contribution of Simon of Cyrene who perhaps couldn't preach his way out of a paper bag. If he had to give a report it would read "zero". But all he did was bear the cross. And he bore it at a time when the other Simon was no where to be found. But I am in full agreement with the premise that it's time for "fire" The real question in my view is are we ready to let go of those things that such a fire would purge?

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2003


In my humble and honest opinion the fire left when we reduced many of our worship services to one BIG, yell, a holler and a scream. I got that from a jazz pianist in Atlanta many years ago. He was known as "Dr. Feel Good" or "Piano Red". I don't need this when I come to worship in my church. Frankly it borders on what Saint Paul describes as conforming to the world. If I want to yell and feel good I can do that in any disco, bar, party or nightclub.

When I come to worship on Sunday I need to hear a message from God and what thus saith the Lord. Then I am invigorated, renewed and inspired to go out in the hedges, the highways and byways and compel other to come.

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2003


Bro Byrd, I think you said something in that last statement: The true fire will indeed purge us!

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2003

as a lay person i can honestly say the fire has left the building due to comfort zones in the church , we have goten so comfortable in our positons and religion that we don't see the fire disappearing. we have the same people doing the same thing every sunday or every other sunday. we get afraid of new changes and it makes us uncomfortable . to me i really don't the good lord wanted us to be comfortable when it comes soul salvation. our ministers no longer have time to minister to the sick or call on the bereared . some other jobs that require some of their time other have their pet projects that have taken them away from their business. they have done away with programs that were in place that should have been of help to them . some of our ministers in the arrongant ways and thinking believe their way is the only way for the church to run. therefore, they have gotten away from teaching and preaching to us about soul salvation we have allowed the world to come and take us away from the business of church.

-- Anonymous, September 23, 2003

in response to brother matthews about not coming to church to feel good. and comparing the church to the jazz club. my biggest problem is when we see somebody shout or yell we act like they crazy. you don't what that person went through to get there. i shout every time i think about jesus on the cross taking my place. i shout and dance when i think about how the devil had and jesus went in to the enemy and got me back. we yell at a football game. we yell when were excited. i am excited to come into worship and praise the lord. there is a difference in flowing shout and disruptive shout even jesus said so. when he told the man to shut up. he was full of demons trying to hender the service. but when a person breaks out and shots and it helps move the service along. david dnced before the lord. man who was lame and got healed went into the temple leaping. i'm through preaching.

-- Anonymous, September 24, 2003

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