SENNA VS. SPR ....SAME BIKE?....any one ?!greenspun.com : LUSENET : MV Agusta F4 : One Thread
Can any one tell me if Senna is just an SPR or better ...?! Do they have same motors?
I was told SPR has more HP, true?!
Also is it worth spending the extra money for a Senna instead of an F4S or an SPR? +
Thanx in advance :)
-- sam (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 18, 2003
Here is a response by Andrea Goggi to the yahoogroup via one of the members Peter (another message by another member is included below to which Goggi responded)
Hope this helps some,
James Dallas TX USA
============================ hi all senna - freddies here is what andrea goggi says about differences between normal f4s and senna: Basically almost everything written in msg. 13573 is somewhat right, but You
need to learn some history more.
In 2000 R&D was already working on the upgrade of F4 S engine, and on SPR
engine; at that time they were different projects, with different engine specs.
Then, due to all the production retards caused by our financial troubles it was
decided to make F4S same as the SPR of that time, calling it EV 02.
This is shortly the story of F4 EV02.
As a consequence the SPR evolution project began again starting from EV02.
Differences between first series of engine and EV02 are quite precisely listed
in msg. 13573 (pistons, valves, crancksshaft, etc. etc.), so I don't repeat
Senna engine is very similar to EV02 engine; differences are gearbox, clutch
disks, Eprom (basically rev limiter from 13300 to 13900), and a special care in
selecting production heads (better porting casting) in order to obtain a more
restricted production tolerance in engine performance.
SPR engine (which is finally going in production right now for the first time),
as a result of a further developement step, has many parts new and different
than EV02, i.e. increased compression ratio, both in-ex ports, combustion
chamber, 100% hand polished inlet ports, cam profiles, tappets, springs,
pistons, trumpets, other than same clutch and close ratio gearbox as Senna.
F4 EV03 engine is same as EV02, only with painted pick-up, clutch and sproket
covers (same color as Brutale).
I'm sorry to hear about troubles in getting the right informations, but in this
moment of re-start of all our activities communication is for sure suffering; It
will get better because as we always did we are working hard to make it happen.
Anyway the informations about differences between basic engine and EV02/Senna
have been communicated to press in a precise way, so it is strange that so many
doubts still exist.
I hope everything is more clear now.
Ciao - AG
hope this helps
Drew, nothing "confirmed" here just more guess-work. Misinformation on this issue begins at the top with the factory and trickle down from there. Whether this is due to poor language translations, mediocre reading skills by enthusiasts, or intentionally vague marketing efforts, I haven't a clue. For example, I was told by a contact at the factory that aside from a different exhaust header (not the SPR, but similar) and gearing, the changes to this year's Evo3 engine are purely cosmetic. Yet, MV's 2003 sales literature suggests a long list of improvements with the Evo3 engine; in reality, nearly all of these changes were part of the Evo2 redesign. Alas, even in print, it is sometimes difficult to tell. My thoughts here could quickly change the moment I see something even remotely official from the factory. If you find something of substance on the subject, let me know. My comments are based on various readings (extremely suspect) and some unofficial conversations with MV dealers (very suspect), a couple of MV/Cagiva factory reps (somewhat suspect), and a handful of mechanics (not-so- suspect). Since I'm at the bottom of the information chain, take these comments with a grain of salt….First off, I'm not really sure what the SPR engine was in 2002. I don't think it was even produced that year. Anyway, whatever it was (or wasn't), I doubt the Senna had the actual SPR engine. My guess is the factory was not able to complete their work on the SPR motor for the 2002 model year and ended up just making some simple modifications to the already improved Evo2 engine. Result…the F4 Senna. More specifically, I believe MV took the redesigned Evo2 motor (which included [for all versions] new Malhe forged pistons, a Malhe cylinder block, a lighter crankshaft, a redesigned combustion chamber, different exhaust valves and valve springs, jets for cooling the underside of the pistons, a modified clutch hub, and a fix for the self-removing oil filter) and made a few more changes to distinguish the Senna from both the "vapor"-SPR and the cooking version. When the dust settles on this issue, I think we'll find the Senna had the following engine improvements:
1) slightly different cams (not F4S, not SPR);
2) a different fuel injection control unit (possibly off the SPR);
3) a different gear box;
4) three rear sprocket options;
5) the SPR exhaust manifold; and
6) two new e-proms unique to the Senna and matched to the Senna's cams and SPR headers (one for the stock silences and one for the included RG3 silences).
I believe the Senna also has a different alternator and a sturdier clutch disc material to provide a stronger platform for the higher revs (13,900 rpm) allowed with the RG3 chip. There may have been other variations depending upon parts availability, holiday schedule, bike destination, and phase of the moon at the time of production. In sum, although not the SPR, these improvements are unique enough to justify the exclusivity afforded the Senna and certainly follow along with MV's official propaganda which suggests the 2002 F4 Senna: is "based upon the SPR's increased performance and capability." (Um, whatever that means….) Lastly, when it's finally released, I believe we will find the SPR to have very different internals and significantly improved performance over either the base or Senna versions. Just my 2-cents worth. Perhaps someday a repair shop will provide the answers you seek by having both Evo2 (F4S and Senna) engines open at the same time to compare parts. Until then, just buy what you can afford and enjoy it.
-- James (email@example.com), September 18, 2003.