More pictures of F4 1000sgreenspun.com : LUSENET : MV Agusta F4 : One Thread
110Nm at 10.200rpm, 166HP, max rpm 12.500. Top speed 301km/h oh yeah baby, drive me crazy !
-- Marco Peters (email@example.com), September 15, 2003
-- mod (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 15, 2003.
Will the 2004 Jap bikes be faster that the new MV 1000?
-- big l (email@example.com), September 15, 2003.
Does that look like a larger radiator?
-- Allan Gibbs (Phoenix, Az) (Agibbs996@aol.com), September 15, 2003.
Ho hum. No nitrided forks. No radial brakes. No new anything. Except maybe a seriously, incredibly bad heat problem where we just had a bad one before.
That paint scheme is seriously ugly too.
This bike is a total cop out. It's just an F4 with a bored and stroked engine, as far as I can see. I'd be really surprised to hear that anything much more than that changed.
I'm going to speculate here. I can't help it, I just start thinking this stuff.
This bike is a make or break. If the company is still in control of the government, then I'm guessing that this is some kind of test, or some kind of last chance. It looks like there was next to zero money for development of a new bike. So they just put out the old one with a Casoli moto big bore kit or something. Change the paint, and maybe a few details, and prolong the agony for a little while longer.
This sure as hell isn't anywhere near what I was expecting after that big long speech from Castiglioni.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here. If Cagiva gets it's act straight, and can build a NEW reliable and decently performing product, then I'll buy it. He was talking about a 1000 and a 600. Well, sorry, if it's just a de-bored and de-stroked version of the F4 motor to make a 600, then that's a cop out too.
The F4 is a great bike. But I don't think it can live on as long as the 916/996/998 by just doing minor upgrades like this.
-- Andy Ruhl (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 16, 2003.
Any idea of what the price tag is going to be yet? Seems like I've heard the number $25k tossed around some.
-- Brian Ogle (email@example.com), September 17, 2003.
This bike isn't a "make or break" for MV Agusta. The Brutale will keep the company afloat much like the Monster keeps Ducati's books balanced. You can't build a volume production motorcycle company on exotics alone.
Expect cosmetic upgrades to be minimal/non-existent for the MV F4 for quite some time. You can expect to see Evo4, Evo5, electronic slipper clutches, variable intake manifolds, etc. Frankly, the stuff that counts -- the bike is and always will be a classic work of art.
-- detansinn (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 17, 2003.
What Brutale? Who actually owns one? Who actually rides one? What revenue can MV generate right now? This bike certainly isn't going to save them from themselves. I say it's make or break because I think this bike is going to have to get the ball rolling so they can start on other projects. I think it's success will dictate how far the ball rolls.
I just don't see them even trying here. I see an F4 with a big bore kit and a few other odds and ends. So what? On one hand, ok, it sure would be cool to ride an MV with maybe 140 hp at the rear wheel (if we're lucky). But I'd be much happier if they did some more development on the bike. I've ridden mine on the track extensively. There are plenty of places that they can work on it. It's a little heavy. It doesn't cool well. The brakes don't have the feel of modern radial mounts. The suspension action isn't the greatest. I don't see any improvements here. The Ducati 916 always got something little that made it better and kept it relevant. I don't see a heck of a lot of that here.
Maybe they are a victim of their own intial success. The F4 is a great and beautiful bike, for it's time. It still is, but it's not as young as it used to be, and how to update something so classic? Maybe the answer is not to, much as they have already done.
-- Andy Ruhl (email@example.com), September 17, 2003.
I think Cagiva's bread and butter comes from the other Cagiva models. As for the MV, the Brutale hasn't been out long enough for it to be really profitable. I though owners were just starting to take delivery.
As for the MV Mille and Tamburini, I think MV's doing it's usual marketing tricks again. Add a little more "special parts", put on a little more color, and make produce a special version in small numbers. However, the 160+hp is something I won't complain about.
Maybe once money starts trickling in again, Cagiva will invest more in R&D. I don't think they can rely on the current design to stay fresh for as long as the 916 did.
-- Allan Gibbs (Phoenix, Az) (Agibbs996@aol.com), September 17, 2003.
Andy...so much b..ing and moaning here like an old woman in a turkish bath! If you think its easy to build a 166HP engine get your butt out there and get busy jack ...! You work for NASA right ?! Oh i forgot its Mcdonald...oooops! Ok then, just flip the burgers.
Upgrades are good, but personaly i care more about the reliability and part support (a real MV issue) than the Ti Nitrated forks.. Like you will use it at WSB when you race one there ...right!
Also like Ag. aid himself its better to keep the design than turn it into an ugly beast ... duc. 999.
-- sean (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 18, 2003.
I'm disappointed by your response Andy.
It seems the old group from mvagstf4 has been spiraling downhill since a certain senna issue cropped up...down in the valley of the enthusiasm waveform at the moment I guess. Strange to be feeling so down now that the business is back on its feet and producing exciting things. Especially after all the time and mental investment.
The Brutale will be a money maker. They have been in and now out of my local dealer and many others. They have been produced, shipped to the US and now sold. Profit made and money funneled back to ITA.
'03 EVOIII's have been in and now out of my dealer and many others. Produced, shipped to the US and sold - yadayada.
EICMA shows the promised 1000cc machines in standard and two special versions (see closeups for nitrided forks btw).
Specs speak for themselves and I'm sure you've reviewed them? Several new and potentially exciting acronyms to learn about (e.g. EBS).
As plainly stated the company is still under supervision. This more than anything since the reorg/refinance by Itesa should tell you they are on track to do everything possible to keep the momentum going in the correct direction.
Satisfying everyone with every model is a bit of a different matter but I ask what you would do to further the business with realistic resources and get the best bang for your buck? It seems to me meeting potential clients in the middle with a 1000cc machine and several special versions goes a long way towards improving the offerings while still maintaining a realistic budget. A fair balance.
The Mamba at 166bhp is likely around 141bhp if we follow the standard model for WHP. Aren't current GSXR1000's putting out similar real- world figures to the wheel (granted we can't yet substantiate where the MV will fall in this trim). Tamburini at (what was it?) ~175bhp should put it in line or above the BRAND NEW Japanese litre bikes. Despite your statement to the contrary incremental changes have been made. Neither you or I can speak to their effectiveness yet. As a package I think it is exactly what many passionate people are looking for.
Heat. Another issue. I can't claim quite the high spikes of AZ but here in North TX we were 100-113F all summer with humidity to match. I understand where you are coming from but I also know that in trips riding around the deep deep desert my MV was fine (no break downs or flashy lights) while we had to stop repeatedly for a new RC51 in the group. Not isolated by any means.
I know that for such an emotional purchase and with such passion involved enthusiasm seems to run hot or cold. If I were this down on the marque I'd probably be moving on. Hopefully not looking back...
As it stands, I for one am happy and excited.
-- James (email@example.com), September 19, 2003.
Color sucks? Ok...fair comment. I assume your comments are based on the fact you've seen one? We all know that these things look bloody great in the flesh and reports coming from Milan are confirming this.
It's far to early for ANYONE to assume that MV will only produce the 'brochured' color scheme, ignoring the tradition red and silver. I don't believe they would bastardise their heritage and drop the the marque color scheme.
No nitrided forks. No radial brakes. No new anything. Huhh!!! I didn't realize that nitrided forks and radial brakes make a new bike? Hmmm... I wonder if a Torque Shift System (Tamburini only), and Engine Brake System (EBS), less weight than a 750, 20-30 extra HP over the 750, different handle bars, never before produced 1000 cc engine (and lighter than the 750 motor), different gearing, top speed, brake calipers and suspension, larger diameter forks, double- bouble screen, adjustable rearsets, hydraulically controlled rear suspension pre-load, cosmetic changes and more.... make any sort of headway into making new bike...
Oh... almost forget. It has a different name as well.
How many times has it been said on this forum and other, by many people, Andy included, that the f4 just doen't quite cut it in the power stakes.
Well folks, 1000cc is here! more HP is here! less weight is here! better suspension and brakes are here! If you STILL have something to complain about, sell your bloody bike, buy a car, and piss off cause your clouding up my perfectly fine day.
-- Rob McCaskie (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 19, 2003.
My friend just picked up his SPR from a bike shop here in Italy, and they are already taking orders for the december delivary of the 1000cc. The other said that the new bike would run circles around almost anything just from what he's heard about it. I'll be sure that once it gets here and I get to go head to head w/my buddy and his SPR to fill anyone that wants to know how it ended up.
-- bill (email@example.com), October 27, 2003.
I don't think the F4 1000 will be faster than a gsxr1000,a zx10r,or the new r1.As fast as the new cbr1000rr maybe(big H always talks about big numbers,but never come true on the dyno).F4 also weights a lot more kilos than the current japanese bikes.a very expensive edition of the mv F4 1000 maybe be faster than the japs. In my opinion that's not a problem cos it's a unique bike,fitted with great suspensions,brakes and it's very beautiful.If i had the money to buy this bike i wouldn't care if it wasn't the faster bike out there.The F4 750 makes 114bhp and the gsxr750 121bhp(as dynotested here in greece on a 250 dynojet)but put one bike next to other and look at them,F4 is awesome and you can't your eyes from it,the gixer suddenly looks big,fat and ugly(i say that eventhought i own a k2 gsxr1000)even if it's much faster on road and track.So if you like the inline 4 cylinder bikes and have the money buy that piece of art,but don't thinking you are the fastest out there!!The price of the f4 1000 is expected about 25000 to 30000 euros(in greece) it's 11000 to 15000 more than the gsxr,r1,etc and with 2000euros my gixer now makes 163bhp and that's the only reason i will never buy a mv f4 1000.
-- ..... (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 15, 2004.