mvagustaf4.com - take note MV Agusta S.p.A. !!!!!!!!!!!

greenspun.com : LUSENET : MV Agusta F4 : One Thread

I'm sure that several of you also visit the above site, and it is regretable that the administrator has experienced such disappointment with MV Agusta that he no longer has the enthusiasm or wish to carry on "promoting" the company's products - visit the site to see his parting message.

Many of us owners (particularly of Senna's, it appears) have had our patience tested to the limit by the apparent lack of quality control that went into our bikes, and then the delays in sorting out the problems when they do manifest themselves during normal usage - I can't believe that anyone who buys an MV would treat it anything but the care and attention it deserves, and I personally have had problems that should not manifest themselves for many tens of thousands of miles.

Despite Claudio Castiglioni's frequent assurances of looking after his customers, it would appear that all the factory can do at the moment is get as many new machines into the showrooms as possible, and the provision of much needed warranty parts seems to have taken a back seat.

This makes sound business sense in the short term as it generates much needed cash. However, how many F4 owners will be prepared to invest in a Mille or F5? Unless things change, Senna 026 will be the first and last MV I ever own, which will be a crying shame because, when it's running properly, it's the most stunning bike on the planet by a huge margin.

I only hope that someone at MV reads these boards - it's a great opportunity to gauge the market place. If they ignore their existing customers in favour of simply selling more new machines, then I'm afraid the future will be bleak.

-- Senna 026 (ralph@eurograv.co.uk), August 21, 2003

Answers

This is the TP's parting message:

"I would like to apologize to those who have been regular visitors to MVAGUSTAF4.com . But in the morning I have to look at myself mirror and I could not do that by continuing to run this site promoting MV Agusta and their motorcycles. I think I have been more than fair, understanding and patient regarding getting the issues with my 2002 MV Agusta F4 Senna resolved. But to date that has gotten me no where but frustrated which increases daily, as I continue to have a motorcycle that I can't ride.

Claudio Castiglioni talks about being passionate about motorcycles and the desire to share that passion with other enthusiasts. But I fail to understand how he can do that with the quality of service that has been provided to MV owners like myself, who have spent their hard earned money on a machine that we cannot enjoy. It is even worse when the problems are not user caused.

I purchased my Senna in June of 2002. Of the 14 months that I have owned the motorcycle it has been in the shop for 5 of those months. Unlike some I didn't not purchase my MV as a trophy, collection piece or as an investment. I purchased my MV to enjoy it by riding it. When you count the 3 months it was in storage for winter it's obvious that, that isn't something I've been able to do a lot of. What is worst is that I have no clue as to when I will be able to enjoy it again as it continues to sit in a shop waiting to be repaired.

The only "emotion" that Claudio Castiglioni is giving me at the moment is grief as I lose money daily on a motorcycle that I can't ride.

I started MVAgustaF4.com to show my love of the machine and the dream, but unfortunately my dream has become a $25,000 nightmare. For those of you who get to enjoy your MV....well I can only envy you because I know the joy these motorcycles can bring. To the others that are in the same situation that I'm in, well we can only hope that one day these companies will realize how important customer service is and the value of loyal consumers.

Unlike the F4, talk is cheap. I really hope Mr. Claudio Castiglioni is enjoying my hard earned cash. Cause I'm obviously not enjoying his vision of bringing passion into the hobby of motorcycling. All I can say at the moment is that you have lost one loyal consumer. But that probably doesn't really matter to you.

TP"

:(

-- Allan Gibbs (Phoenix, Az) (Agibbs996@aol.com), August 21, 2003.


That really makes me sad to read these lines of frustration. When I first heard about the MV Brutale I was sure that oneday I should have such an awesome artpiece of a Bike. That was and still is the most beautyfull naked bike on this planet. But then the production stopped Arghhhh!!!!. that was then. In January 2002 I was over to the local Ducati Dealer to see on a 748, when I stodd there I also saw the Monster s4 nothing special, the monster has never really turn'd me on. So he told me that he would get the Monster Fogggy home the next week. Ohh congrats!! I say, should that be something special with this Model?? Ohh yes, he told and starting to talk Bla Bla. But what about the 748 hmm! ok seeya next week The following week I wrote All about the foggy, Offcouse I knew who king Foggy was. The next week I saw the foggy in the shop, and I had never seen a more exotic bike (A MUST HAVE) My body was pumped full of adrenalin when I stood there. Just the thought of having a bike like this was -words don't describe this feeling- So a week later the bike was in my garage, waiting for summertime. It is and are the most exiting bike I ever had riding on The pull/sound/feeling/soul/etc./etc/ And belive me I have tried all the topguns of bikes MINUS the MV AGUSTA. Sadly only after 1200 miles It's still leak oil from the rear cyl. it has been in the dealers shop once for repair. Now it's second time I must go there, for the same leak. It has got new glass on the revcounter suddenly crack, Hmm!!! frontturnlight lose wire. Battery leak. imobilizer are teasing. It's a great bike, But pay so many bucks for a bike that is so special, and then have all these problems that just make me wery wery sad. They -Ducati- cannot see thru fingers with all these problems A Ducati make or have. They cannot live on selling the soul with tons of problems, it's a TOP BRAND. So I have decided to sell it and Buy a MV BRUTALE I cannot get it out my head. And now they have started the production again. UNTIL I READ THIS FROM YOU. NOW I AM REALLY IN SAD MOOD. Please tell me what the problem is with the bikes. Many many thanks. The Italians don't ride the same day they are saddel the horse. Many many thanks. Lars Denmark Sorry with the wrong spellings

-- Lars Andersen (l-duke@oncable.dk), August 21, 2003.

The situation is sad and a damn shame. It puts major doubts in my decision of putting down a deposit for a Mille. I will try to keep up with TP's situation, if it wouldn't turn out right it will be the end of my MV Agusta/Cagiva ownership.

Cheers!!!

-- David Nguyen (Archille@hotmail.com), August 21, 2003.


It is a very sad situation. It can happen to anybody of us (I have had 0 problems with mine). And we are loosing a very good forum (the best in my opinion) about our bikes.

I hope that things will change in a short time.

From my side, I will send a message to MV AGUSTA USA (since mvagusta.it is not working), in the section "I have a question pertaining to product warranty". I think that it can be a point to push a little bit the people from MV AGUSTA.

-- gafas (isantillan@ya.com), August 21, 2003.


There aren't a lot of MV Agusta forums. I think there were 3 MV forums that actually have "traffic": Greespun, Mvagustaf4.com, and the Yahoo e-group. A loss of a forum due to the reliability/repair issues is a MAJOR black mark against MV Agusta.

It doesn't really inspire confidence in those potential buyers looking for information. It doesn't inspire confidence in those who already have the machines (and suffered some reliability issues themselves). It really dampens the enthusiasm, which is a major part of MV ownership.

I hope TPs situation is resolved quickly. Hopefully, they can give him something comparable to the SPR or buy back the SPR at a reasonable price. I also hope TP still decides to hang around here.

Man, it feel like someone just died. :(

-- Allan Gibbs (Phoenix, Az) (Agibbs996@aol.com), August 21, 2003.



After 2 1/2 years, and 6500 miles, I've had no problems with mine either. The only problem I've had is the scratch I put in the fairing last week backing it out of the garage :(

-- Brad Cowell (bcowell@sbcglobal.net), August 21, 2003.

I say more power to TP. He's been screwed. And he's getting tired of the bullshit doubletalk that these people are giving him.

I actually think that Castiglioni is in danger of becoming extremely pathetic. I mean, we can see that he has vision to facilitate the creation of cool bikes (916, MV), but his record of keeping a company solvent after this happens is extremely poor so far. Look what happened with Ducati. Until they were sold out, they were known as nice but challenged, reliability and finish wise. The MV has had better reliability than early Ducatis I think, but only slightly. So they sell Ducati and it becomes probably the second biggest name brand bike in the world. The new owners only had to fix minor problems, then let the bikes sell themselves. Why is it that Castiglioni fails to grasp this? His former company that he sold now has the buying power to buy his rear end many, many times over. I can only hope that someone wrestles MV away from him and brings Tamburini with them.

Ok, enough of that.

I still have my MV, and I still love it. If I have a problem like TP's, someone is going to have an MV enema though. I think I have one of the more reliable years, ironically the 2nd year of major production (2001).

Would I buy another MV? Not sure. But the chances are only going downward every day.

What I'm going to miss about TP's place is that we talked mostly about riding. Track riding, street riding, whatever. Maybe the next most popular subject was maintenance. You can't beat that. There wasn't any "How to I shoehorn a 200 series tire onto my bike" lunacy. Or "What pipe looks best" or whatever. These are bikes. They are meant to be ridden. Maybe we can prepare a proper eulogy for those of us who are able to make it to the track day gathering next month?

-- Andy Ruhl (quadreverb@yahoo.com), August 21, 2003.


Oh yeah, let's not forget that www.mvagusta.it and the corresponding Cagiva web sites are still down. It doesn't cost much to put up something, but they can't even do that. This isn't good. If TP can run a nice looking site out of his own pocket (well, up till now), what does it say for the company who can't even do it?

-- Andy Ruhl (quadreverb@yahoo.com), August 21, 2003.

I'm bummed about the loss of the site as well. TP had a nice place going and I'll miss it. This board tends to be mainly for sale ads, and the Yahoo boards are just plain hard to use. It seems to be that all of the traffic comes from four or five guys. There seems to be a tight-knit group there, but it's kind of hard to understand the personal conversations about group trips they've all been on together in Europe or wherever.

If there is some interest, I'd be willing to start up a new forum to replace the loss. I'm a programmer by trade, so it wouldn't take too much work. What do you guys think?

--Josh

-- Joshua Armantrout (Josh@Armantrout.us), August 21, 2003.


I don't think it's a question of could you, it's should you. I can do it too. I run a message board for the track I ride at.

At this point, I say screw it. This one is here. It's not the most elegant thing, but it's good enough. If you really want to, fine, but I'd say that going out of your way to promote anything built by Cagiva is doing the wrong thing.

Let them prove they can do what they are supposed to do first, on all levels. New bikes aren't arriving in the modest numbers that they talked about a few months ago. There is no 1000cc bike. They can't send parts to fix the bikes already out there. Forget it.

-- Andy Ruhl (quadreverb@yahoo.com), August 22, 2003.



I fully understand people who've had trouble's frustration with Cagiva/MV, and the resulting desire to avoid promoting them and their products. However, I don't think that an enthusiast forum/site only serves to promote the company and products that it is dedicated to. I think that it is there to serve the enthusiasts themselves, those who own the products and those who are considering them.

I would tend to think that such a site and community would only serve to promote the products and company if the overall feeling throughout the community is one of endorsement and approval. If it is negative, then that will be the overall message imparted to those visiting.

The fact that a site exists may in and of itself add a few positive promotion points, but the fact that people are much more likely to comment on and discuss the problems they are having and frustrations they are encountering surely more than balances things out. How many message boards are we all part of where everyone loves the product and it is generally reliable but new visitors come and get scared off by all of the problems they are reading about?

At one of the forums that I frequent the slogan is "It's the people", and I'd have to agree. The forum/enthusiast site should be built to provide a resource for individuals who share a common interest. Even if the common interest is the appreciation for the design and concept of a product that has terrible build quality and support, hey - misery loves (and in that case maybe needs) company. This is what I propose and what I would build if I were to do it. We could call it the Online Support Group For MV Agusta Owners if you prefer, but no matter how one looks at it, it is much more in the best interest of all of us owners for a repository of information and wisdom to exist then not. Wouldn't you agree? --Josh

-- Joshua Armantrout (Josh@Armantrout.us), August 22, 2003.


I agree with Josh. These internet forums can be really powerful tools for manufacturers to keep track of customer attitudes both positive and negative.

I seriously doubt Cagiva Italy would really care. However, I believe Cagiva USA does monitor this the few MV sites, and would have more influence on Cagiva Italy that any of us would. I'm hoping TP's pulling the plug get's Cagiva USA's attention to actually solve the problem.

As for Greenspun and MVAgustaF4S.com, they are both really great forums, and each has it's strong points. MVAgustaF4S had very useful track and technical information. I think most of the "hardcore" MV riders (Andy, TP, Pete) were there! :) Greenspun's is a bit more "softcore" but it has an extremely long history. Scroll down and see how much F4S is covered in the past 3 years! Greenspun is a place a potential buyer would visit to get basic info about the MV. TP's site is were he'd go after he/she gets the MV and wants to "use it".

I'm hoping the threads on TP's site haven't been lost or can be recovered. Perhap someone or some entity (like Monroe Motorcycles) may want to buy MVAgustaF4S from TP and continue those threads.

-- Allan Gibbs (Phoenix, Az) (Agibbs996@aol.com), August 22, 2003.


AAAGGRRRRHHH!!! Couldn't get the damn warranty contact page @MVAGUSTAUSA.COM to submit. It's frustrating and only now that I begin to appreciate a small percentage of the frustration that TP has gone thru. I would have a f*cking cow if the same situation happened to me.

Something like this really kills your enthusiasm for the marque. I understand that TP is exploring all possible legal action against CAGIVAUSA. This is sad but maybe we should start a legal fund drive for TP.

Cheers!!!

-- David Nguyen (Archille@hotmail.com), August 22, 2003.


I am sad to hear about all of the difficulties that TP has gone through with his MV. I have only a minor problem (headlamp glass on back-order for over 4 months) and I am frustrated so I can only imagine his disdain for the MV Agusta name. I thoroughly enjoyed MVAGUSTAF4.com and will be sad to see it leave.

I have had several issues answered by just reading other people's posts their and have asked a few questions myself. I also enjoyed reading the posts about future machines and pics of MV's that I had not seen anywhere else.

This all being said, I completely understand the decision made by TP. As others have said, hopefully this doesn't go unnoticed by the people at Cagiva USA and something can be done to "win back" dissatisfied customers and motorcycle enthusiasts such as TP.

Good luck and thanks for the wonderful times provided by your site.

-- Pete (pistonpete@hotmail.com), August 22, 2003.


Josh,

As upsetting as I am at how CAGIVAUSA handling TP's sitation, I have to agree that you brought up a very good point...but with so much financial and emotional investments and only to be let down in this way is beyond words...

Cheers!!!

-- David Nguyen (Archille@hotmail.com), August 22, 2003.



What TP should do is turn his board into a list of known problems/issues with individual bikes divided by region. That way people in the US and Europe can collect and document all issues and thus present a better case to Cagiva USA or whoever may listen. If that doesn't work, turn it into a class action issue and bring it up with the appropriate governing body, especially if the issue can cause a fatality. Most states in the US have lemon laws concerning "cages" , not sure about bikes. It might be worth looking into and help MV get their act together. Quite frankly, all the issues people have been having with the MV is scaring me towards a new Factory Mille R. And quite frankly, for the dough, MV needs to fit proper carbon bits in place of the ugly faux pieces adorning the "standard" bikes. There's simply no excuse. Just my 2 cents :-)

-- Michel Fortier (rx7tt95@aol.com), August 22, 2003.

TP... ...and supporters of the sites!

This may not be THE answer gents but as a dart/rant? for discussion have a go...

How about... every member here and there send $10.00 to each board for funding... these funds support the boards AND provide for a special section/thread/forum for the discussion of the service and support of these bikes both GOOD and BAD. The GOOD to be fair and candid, the BAD to show MV/Cagiva/Castiglioni where immediate solutions are needed.

For instance the good will that could be generated by MV/Cagiva/Castiglioni should "they" bite the bullet, pay the freight and GET the FN parts out would be HUGE right now! What owner/rider/future customer here would not take real and significant notice of that sort of action. The costs of which are minute compared to the damage being done by the current lack of response. How many lost sales does it take to out weight the costs of such a remediation? 10, 5, 1 bike? Can the costs really be the issue? Can the impact of scavaging the part from a produced bike really be so great as to make that an impracticle solution?

Please MV/Cagiva/Castiglioni go to the production line, pull the parts that are needed to service YOUR customers, send it fastest most direct method and then continue manufacture of these bikes without the burden and drag of bad moral and ill will from your most valuable marketing asset...satisfied customers.

I do not believe this is a matter of pressure/threat. It is also not a matter of begging for a response that is reasonable and fair. It is, I think a matter of presenting the issue such that is is truely understood by those in postion and authority to make decsions and take action. Deal in good faith no matter how you are dealt with by others. Sooner or later you will get to the person or persons who can solve you problem. Doing less only provides a rational for you request to be denied.

I to have had to confront similar issues (availablity, timelyness, etc) of warrenty parts. While the Senna's are of a more bothersome nature, in my experience, success was found exactly as outlined above. It is not easy, it borders on real work, the kind people pay you to do, and it cannot be approached as anything less. One thing to keep in mind...

This must be turned to a benefit to MV/Cagiva/Castiglioni in order for it to be resolved. They will certainly do the right thing for themselves if not for you. WE must simply discover what the right thing for them is...

Ok, this may seem a bit disjointed. Take it as a stream of consciousness thing. The energies generated by this issue should be combined and focused. There are examples of actions that have worked for oithers, it can be accomplished, it is not impossible. We do have the potential to exert some sway in the matter. There are many here who either directly or indirectly, presently or in the future, will be affected by this.

So, what are we going to do now? As always if you can...

Good Roads, Ride Well

Scot/NC f4s2002us Mooresville, NC

-- Scot Hennon (scot/nc@i-bmw.com), August 23, 2003.


TP, Thanks for creating mvagustaf4.com. It was the only place that really got down to MV issues and riding. greenspun was more is more a message board, and Yahoo is more a Social type group that is Euro based. Both good, but not as focused as TP's forum...Anyway..loved being part of the many useful discussions, and I'll miss the enjoyment, friends and learning the forum brought. So to TP, Andy, Archille, and all the other regulars at TP's site. Let's hope we can muster up another MV Forum. {I'll chat with my sources to see if it's possible}

Regards Pete {pete_mvagusta}

PS: I'll be looking at ways to maybe introducing a forum though my MV site at http://www.nitor.co.nz/~pete/pete.html. No promises...see how we go.

-- Pete Hughes. (pete_mvagusta@yahoo.com.au), August 23, 2003.


thanks everyone and again sorry for pulling the plug so suddenly. whenever this issue with my Senna is resolved without a doubt the site will be back. but unfortunately when that is depends on MV. thanks again and its good to see that my effort was appreciated

-- TP (tp5ow02@yahoo.com), August 29, 2003.

Was very keen to buy an SPR but have just read all the above. Who needs that. If MV read this, know that you have lost a $25,000 sale. If that doesnt concern you then you have no right to be in business. Ferrari have a beautiful product that is reliabile - copy that business model and I will be a customer.

-- J White (white@worldcom.ch), December 20, 2003.

I started out looking for an MV to buy. Now I am not sure I will, especially living in NZ where dealers are small time and parts availability marginal. What a pity. Back to the trusty old R90S I suppose. Good luck guys.

-- Andy Tie (abmt@welpath.co.nz), April 15, 2004.

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