Would an incompetent doctor be allowed to practice?greenspun.com : LUSENET : A.M.E. Today Discussion : One Thread
Have you ever been in a hospital where the doctors did not know how to operate? An incompetent doctor would never be allowed to practice but not in Churches. Unfortunately most churches are made up of doctors or ministers who don't know how to minister or to be a doctor! But Jesus knew how to minister or to attend to the wants and needs of other. The bible records:
MT 4:24 Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.
ACTS 10:38 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
Jesus taught His true disciples how to minister AND MINISTER THEY DID: MK 16:17 "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 16:18 "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." 16:19 So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.
ACTS 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. 8:6 And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.
BUT THE FOOLISH MINISTERS TODAY DON'T ACCEPT THE WORDS OF JESUS AND AS A RESULT SHOULD RESIGN FROM BEING MINISTERS AS THEY ARE NOT TRUE MINISTERS OF THE GOSPEL AND ARE NOT DOING WHAT GOD HAS COMMANDED THEM TO DO:
EZ 34:1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 34:2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD to the shepherds: "Woe to the shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 34:3 "You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock. 34:4 "The weak you have not strengthened, nor have you healed those who were sick, nor bound up the broken, nor brought back what was driven away, nor sought what was lost; but with force and cruelty you have ruled them. 34:5 "So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; and they became food for all the beasts of the field when they were scattered. 34:6 "My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and on every high hill; yes, My flock was scattered over the whole face of the earth, and no one was seeking or searching for them."
-- Anonymous, July 28, 2003
This is an important topic and I'm puzzled at how and why I have been so delinquent in responding. The basic premise of this rhetorical question is that the safe delivery of medical procedures is assured through a rigorous quality-control screening process for physicians. Normally the license to practice medicine in this country is determined through a collaborative arrangement between medical schools, the AMA, hospitals and the state government which issues the license. Ergo, Christian ministry is absent of such professional safegaurds. Interesting thesis but one which I have to reject due to empirical observations.
At least in the AMEC, the model used to promote quality control screening and protecting professional safeguards is embodied in the concept of a Board of Examiners for clergy prior to assuming pastoral assignments. In fact, a case can be made that seminary training is no different than medical school training in that both institutions are designed to provide the supply of their respective professionals. That is why these schools are often referred to as "professional schools". Perhaps a state should require a clergy member to take a state wide test like MD's, lawyers, accountants, etc. BEFORE being allowed to "practice" in a particular state. This would assure greater accountability and provide a clear signal that each state is protecting the public against fraud, deception and general incompetence. This latter suggestion of mine however would probably invoke heated rejection by my clergy friends based on slippery reasoning about church-state seperation issues.
However, even though an M.Div. degree holder or an M.D. have satisfied basic academic and professional requirements neither degree will guaranteed the elimination of incompetence. The Hippocratic Oath, is routinely violated. The rising number of medical malpractice suits and the growing list of clergy malfeasance lawsuits occurs despite the growing number of M.Div's and M.D.s. QED
-- Anonymous, September 01, 2003
The Sin Of King Saul
Samuel also said to Saul, "The LORD sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now therefore, heed the voice of the words of the LORD. "Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 'Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' " 1 Samuel 15:1-3
King Saul the anointed one who prophesied with the prophets and had a supernatural miraculous change of heart was not a bad king. Rather he was an excellent king who had the favor of his people until he died even though the Lord was upset with him and had turned his face from him. Saul was no different than most prominent religious leaders of our day who pick and choose what parts of the bible they will obey. Saul attacked the Amalekites and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword but Saul and the people spared king Agag and the best of the sheep, the oxen, the fatlings, the lambs, and all that was good, and were unwilling to utterly destroy them. But everything despised and worthless, that they utterly destroyed. All this caused the word of the LORD to come to Samuel:, "I greatly regret that I have set up Saul as king, for he has turned back from following Me, and has not performed My commandments." And it grieved Samuel, and he cried out to the LORD all night. 1 Samuel 15:11
Sins of omission like King Saul are very common amongst Christian leaders in America today. Case in point is William R. "Bill" Bright, founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, the world's largest Christian ministry, who died July 19, 2003 from complications related to pulmonary fibrosis. He was 81, according to a news release from DeMossNewsPond.com. But for some Bill Bright was no different from King Saul as he didnít do specifically what Jesus instructed him to do? Jesus was very clear in His commands:
And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. "And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; "they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. Mark 16:14-20
In the Christian world there are many doctrines of demons including Ďonce saved, always saved,í Ďuniversal salvation,í miracles, tongues and the gifts of the Spirit have ceased, and the local church is Godís representative on earth. Itís all hogwash because none of it matches the words of Jesus who said that "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. "He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Revelations 21:5- . Those who are overcome shall not inherit all things and to say anything else is to be a liar! And liars donít go to heaven but to hell. It's only those who abide in Jesus word are His disciples indeed:
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. John 8:31
"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. "By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. John 15:4-8
The problem we have today is that too many of Godís people are listening to pastors, priests and preachers who know only slightly more than them. They listen to pastors, priests and preachers who have a form of godliness but deny its power. Pastors, priests and preachers who donít do what Jesus has commanded them to do! Itís a fact that people need real miracles and healing and not just words that are dead the moment they are spoken because they donít have life in them. Life comes from God and His Spirit and not from them. Life gives life and not just empty promises of a pie in the sky! Godís word is unchanging:
"Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know- Acts 2:22 "how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Acts 10:38
Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them. And the multitudes with one accord heeded the things spoken by Philip, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with a loud voice, came out of many who were possessed; and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. And there was great joy in that city. Acts 8:5-8
Phillip was not an apostle but an ordinary layman filled with faith and the Spirit of God chosen to serve upon the widows. And if Philip could have a miracle ministry than any pastors, priest and preacher can if he is a true man of God. For the same Spirit that was on Jesus is available to be on all His servants. Godís word is unchanging:
There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots. The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. His delight is in the fear of the LORD, And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears; But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins, And faithfulness the belt of His waist. Isaiah 11:1-5
"The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD." Luke 4:18-19
Yes, the same anointing that was upon David, Jesus and all the Apostles is to be on all of Godís servants today! Yes, they can have the same Spirit of the LORD resting upon them, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. As a result their delight will be in the fear of the LORD, and they shall not judge by the sight of their eyes, nor decide by the hearing of their ears; But by the Spirit of the LORD with righteousness they shall judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the earth; they shall strike the earth with the rod of their mouths, And with the breath of their lips they shall slay the wicked. Godís word is unchanging:
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 1:4-8
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect. 1 Corinthians 1:17
And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 1 Corinthians 2:1-5
-- Anonymous, September 01, 2003