Greek Orthodox Roman Catholic Marriagegreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread
I have recently become engaged to a man who is Greek Orthodox and I was raised Roman Catholic. We both want to keep our religion.
We are trying to determine where to get married and I need to understand the types of impacts from a Roman Catholic point of view. I am able to get married in the orthodox church without the requirement of converting my religion. Is that a possibility with the Catholics?
Also we were thinking of an outside wedding, where we could have a priest from both performing the ceremony. Is this possible?
Any thoughts you could provide would be appreciated.
-- Christine (email@example.com), July 26, 2003
It is unlikely, due to the unfortunate situation between the Catholic & Orthodox Churches, that you will be able to celebrate your marriage with the 2 priests jointly performing the ceremony.
There is also an additional issue to consider. If you are married in the Roman Catholic Church, the Greek Orthodox Church will not recognize the validity of the wedding and your fiance will be refused the sacraments. On the other hand if you get married in the Orthodox Church the Roman Catholic Church will recognize the wedding as valid.
If you were to get married in the Roman Catholic there would be no requirement for your fiance to convert.
Hope that's helpful.
-- Fr. Mike Skrocki, JCL (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 26, 2003.
I believe what Fr. Mike Skrocki told you above is correct, but he left out a couple of pieces.
First, you can have your marriage blessed by the other religion so that both of you will be married in your respective Church's eyes.
Also, it is not easy to have an outside Catholic wedding. I believe a dispensation from the bishop is required.
My suggestion is to talk to your local pastor about your options.
-- Glenn (email@example.com), July 29, 2003.
Glenn is technically incorrect in his response. The Catholic Church would not "bless" a wedding that has taken place somewhere else. In the Church's eyes there would have been no wedding and so nothing to "bless." You would have to be married in Church. However, this is not true if you are married in the Greek Orthodox Church. The Catholic Church does recognize such a marriage as valid. There would be no need for anything subsequent to that - not even a "blessing."
Hope that's helpful.
-- Fr. Mike Skrocki, JCL (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 29, 2003.
Thanks Father for the clarification. I did misread your first post. I thought you stated that the Catholic Church would NOT recognize a Greek Orthodox wedding.
I do have another question for you though. If a Catholic had married outside the Church, then later decides they want their marriage validated by the Church, what is this process called? I had always heard of it as being "blessed" by the Church. Please clarify for me.
Thanks and God Bless.
-- Glenn (email@example.com), July 30, 2003.
Yes it is commonly called "having the marriage/wedding blessed." But literally it is marrying the couple. If they were married by a JP or in a Protestant Church (without permission) we would actually have to marry them.
Often the phrase "blessing the marriage" is used to calm one of the parties who believe that their first marriage counts and they shouldn't have to go through it again. This is, in my humble opinion, a cop-out and a watering down of our beliefs.
Hope that's helpful.
-- Fr. Mike Skrocki, JCL (firstname.lastname@example.org), July 30, 2003.
Hi there, I was reading your discussion and had a few questions myself. I am currently dating a Greek Orthodox man. It's pretty serious, but neither of us have really touched the subject of conversion. Over the top, we both seemed to think that it was necessary for one of us to convert if we were to get married.
Your discussion has brought me some relief in the sense that at some point, atleast it seems, both faiths will recognize the marriage. However, I'm Catholic, and to marry him through the Greek Orthodox church (which you stated the Catholic Church would recognize), do I need to convert to Greek Orthodox? Will the Greek Orthodox Church not marry us otherwise? If so, wouldn't that mean that the Catholic church would not recognize our marriage because I am no longer Catholic?
If you could answer my questions it would be great. It would help to have clear answers for when the topic does come up.
-- Carmen (email@example.com), September 01, 2003.
It is unlikely that the Greek Orthodox Church would demand that you convert in order to perform the wedding. Have a quick chat with the Greek Orthodox pastor of your boyfriends church. See what he has to say.
Hope that's helpful.
P.S. Thanks to John G for pointing out this posted question.
-- Fr. Mike Skrocki, JCL (firstname.lastname@example.org), September 02, 2003.
Hi. I am Macedonian Orthodox and my fiance is Roman Catholic and we are due to be married in February 2005 in a Catholic Church.
His mother wants the complete catholic mass to be performed for the wedding ceremony. My question is whether I am able to receive the Eucharist? My fiance does not want me to convert, but neither the Catholic priest nor the Orthodox priest have been able to advise us of the answer.
In literature that has been provided to us it states that as long as I am taking the Eucharist of my own free will I am able to receive it, the Orthodox Church simply does not recommend it. Do I need to be granted permission from my priest?
I am hoping that someone is able to help.
-- Irena Causoska (email@example.com), April 15, 2004.
I don't know the answer to your question, but this thread and its links may help:
-- Emily (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 15, 2004.
I, believe in one Baptisim as we say in the Creed, and one Priesthood, one Communion, one Church. We profess this in the creed, do we not? ("I confess ONE BAPTISIM for the fogivness of sins") The Latin church is an uncononical church, its mysteries are invalid, and therefore its Baptisim is invalid, because if Christ said to his Apostles "go therefore Baptise all nations, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spitit, teaching them all I have commanded you.." and if we take into consideration our Nicean Creed, the basic summary of our faith, then Christine would have to be Baptised in the Orthodox Church, and married in it also. I do believe she (along with her future husband) should be insrtucted in the faith. This will lead to a fruitful marrige in the Church, and a happy one.
Note: Baptize means to immurse into water. Christ is speaking of immursion, and not sprikaling as the Latins do. Also He is refering to Triple immursion when He mensions the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Latins do not do this. Therefore, they dont Baptize they "Sprinkle". And we must notice that Christ is speaking to His Apostles. The Deacons, The Priests, and The Bishops have Apostolic Succesion. They do the work of that the Apostles did. Well, when Rome left the Church, she also left behind her Apostolic Succession. Therefore ALL her mysteries are invalid. Many Saints of the 19th and 20th centuries (St. Nektarios, St. Nicodimos the Agiorite) and many more fathers hold the same opinion as I do.
I strongly recommend you read the book "I Confess One Baptisim" by ProtoPresbyter George Metallinos. I myself am a Tonsured Reader, and under a the Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Toronto, Canada (Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople)
-- Reader John (email@example.com), June 08, 2004.
"I, believe in one Baptisim as we say in the Creed, and one Priesthood, one Communion, one Church. We profess this in the creed, do we not?"
A: Well, there WAS one Church from the time of the Apostles until the Orthodox officially declared schism in the 11th century. Then there were two churches. Now there are hundreds.
"The Latin church is an uncononical church, its mysteries are invalid, and therefore its Baptisim is invalid, because if Christ said to his Apostles "go therefore Baptise all nations, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spitit, teaching them all I have commanded you.."
A: Yes, Christ gave this command to the leaders of the Holy Catholic Church, more than 1,000 years before any such thing as an "Orthodox Church" existed. And the Catholic Church followed that command, catechising most of the known world centuries before the schism occurred. If its baptism was valid then, it is valid now. If Baptism is not valid in the Church to which Christ gave the sacrament, then it is not valid anywhere.
"if we take into consideration our Nicean Creed, the basic summary of our faith, then Christine would have to be Baptised in the Orthodox Church, and married in it also."
A: The True Church recognizes baptism in the schismatic church, just as it recognizes baptism in many of the heretical churches. Nevertheless, given a choice of baptism in the Church to which Christ gave the sacrament, vs. baptism in an unauthorized schismatic church created 1,000 years later, I'd go with the Church Christ founded.
"Note: Baptize means to immurse into water. Christ is speaking of immursion, and not sprikaling as the Latins do."
A: Actually baptism means to be immersed in the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church does not baptize by sprinkling. It baptizes the way the early Church most often did, by pouring water on the head; or alternatively, by immersion, which it also recognizes as a fully valid form of baptism.
"Also He is refering to Triple immursion when He mensions the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
A: This a referal to the verbal form of Baptism, which the Holy Catholic Church follows precisely, not to the physical method that is used. There is no biblical, traditional, or historical evidence to support your private interpretation.
"Well, when Rome left the Church, she also left behind her Apostolic Succession."
A: Now that would be a really good trick, since there was no Christian church on earth but the Catholic Church from the 1st century until the 11th. Did the Catholic Church leave itself?? If not, what church did it "leave", since there was no other on earth? Every document of Christianity prior to the 11th century is a document of the Holy Catholic Church. Only after the formalization of the schism can we find any document by or about anything called "the Orthodox Church". It would be rather foolish to claim that Great Britain seceded from the United States. It is equally absurd to suggest that the Catholic Church separated from a non-existent Orthodox Church.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 08, 2004.
I am in the same situation (I am Catholic, he is Greek Orthodox). I was married before and applying for annulment. However, we are planning a Greek Church Wedding.
My question is children. Can we raise them in both religions, strictly alternating weeks or do we need to choose? I want them to go to Catholic school strictly for the excellent education - do they allow them if I am Catholic and raised them Greek. Suggestions are welcome.
-- Janet (firstname.lastname@example.org), June 18, 2004.
I suggest looking into the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church. Every Eastern Orthodox Church has a Catholic counterpart. This would allow you to remain in full communion with Rome and the Catholic Church, but also follow the disciplines of that particular rite in the Orthodox Church. I think the Greek Orthodox follows the Byzantine rite, so if that's correct, do a search for Byzantine rite Catholic Churches. You might like to talk with a Catholic priest about this to find out more.
As far as I know, the Catholic weekly requirement to attend mass is not fulfilled by attending an Eastern Orthodox Church, so you would still need to bring them to mass. Also, I think raising the children under both religions will just confuse them. Children are impressionable, and hearing things on both sides from the parents may prove detrimental and (God forbid) lead to their abandoning religion altogether. I think your best option is to look into an Eastern rite Catholic Church. Talk this over with your fiance and hopefully you can agree that this arrangement will be a good compromise.
May God bless you and your marriage.
-- Emily ("email@example.com), June 18, 2004.