What do you think of the media printing photos of Saddam's deceased sons? Evil or not, I think it stinks. So does the vatican. Theresa

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), July 25, 2003

Answers

maranatha!

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), July 25, 2003.

T,

Why? We see pictures of Jewish people that where killed in camps. We see pictues of babies that are aborted.

We see pictues of soldiers killed in all the wars on tv. Why is it evil to show these pictures? We even saw pictures of OJ Simpsons wife and Ron G. (two innocent) people slaughtered.

Was it evil to see pictures of President Kennedy's shot in the head?

No it wasn't evil in my op. It wasn't like it was two innocent nuns.Did you think they would hide the pictures?

-- - (David@excite.com), July 26, 2003.

It wasn't evil. Just extremely TACKY!

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 26, 2003.

Hey Lady Tee:

I think the people of Iraq NEED to see that they really ARE dead. Who can blame 'em!

Gail

P.S. Ignore the Imposter Anna, as I think the moderator is deleting by IP address -- that poor, poor pitiful creature.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 26, 2003.

Our modern sensibilities don't easily stomach such tactics, but for the kind of brutal and primitive people that need to be communicated with in Iraq, Rumsfeld decision to publish the photos sent the right message and the only kind of message they understand. It's not in keeping with Christian practices, but war is a brutal and violent act in and of itself.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), July 26, 2003.

non-Catholic Christian,

Are we to assume then that the Iraqi people are animals then? Brutality, death, and killing might be the only thing that these people know but they are not stupid. Remember their country has been having wars for the past 1400 years. If not more. Present day Iraq is where Islam fought most of its wars with itself. The middle east is a more complex place then any other place in the world. Its problems are stagaring. Not only are their wars within each country, wars with other countries, and wars within Islam. Their are also modern societies dukeing it out for rule of their oil. Besides the fact that the west doesn't like how the people their are treated.

Remember that these people are God's children too. They deserve your respect and love. Don't blame them that they live in a harsh world. Remember that we the people that live in the United States take our freedom for granted. These people don't have freedom but they are still trying their best. Give the people a break. They have been oppressed for like the past 1000 years.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), July 27, 2003.

Scott,

Please read his post again. Its almost as if you can't understand what what was posted. What do you mean[we]? Please speak for yourself.

-- - (David@excite.co), July 27, 2003.

David what didn't I understand? "...[B]ut for the kind of brutal and primitive people that need to be communicated with in Iraq,Rumsfeld decision to publish the photos sent the right message and the only kind of message they understand." How else am I supposed to interpret brutal and primitive? He considers the people stupid. Without these people there would be no united states. Without these people there would never have been the works of Plato, Aristotle, and many other Greek and Roman thinkers because all of these documents were destroyed. This people are in fact so "primitive" that they came up with the first modern checking system in the year 900. These peopel are not primitive because they have the ability to do everything that we do. Once reconstuction occurs there will be a restoration of running water, electricity, food, shopping, and many other modern things. It's not like these people go around with spears and swords and live in tents. Have a bit of repect for people that are going threw hard times. I would love to see your reponce David@Excite

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), July 27, 2003.

Dear Scott,

I think most "rational" people would agree that the Saddam Hussein regime is both brutal and primitive. In fact, I would venture to say there is no word in the English language that could adequately describe these monsters of terror.

I think if it were my family that had been subject to unimaginable tortures at the hands of these neanderthals that I would want to see their heads on a platter. Not only for the sake of justice, but also TO BE SURE they are finally, unequivocally, undoubtedly, gone!

Please spare us the pious lecture, okay!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 27, 2003.

OH THE BLOOD OF JESUS, OH THE BLOOD OF JESUS, OH THE BLOOD OF JESUS; IT WASHES WHITE AS SNOW.

FOR YOU ARE LORD, YOU ARE LORD, YOU HAVE RISEN FROM THE DEAD AND YOU ARE LORD. EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), July 27, 2003.

Well, since it's not obvious to those who objected to my post, I'll spell it out. By publishing those photos, Rumsfeld wasn't communicating with the average Iraqi citizen who wants nothing more than to live in peace like most of us. I've read personal letters from soldiers in Iraq who state that 98% of the Iraqi people they encounter are grateful for what the Americans have done and NEVER want them to leave in order to protect them from the "brutal and primitive" people I'm referring to.

The true target of Rumsfeld's message (the publishing of the photos), are Baath party loyalists and terrorists imported from Syrian and Iran who are still causing troubles in that nation preventing the ability to restore peace, order and civilization. These are the same types of thugs that have been committing human atrocities for centuries in Iraq and other places in the middle east such as the Taliban in Afghanistan or the PLO in Israel.

They are people born to wage war. They attack and brutally kill innocents by the hundreds of thousands in these countries to gain their objectives and control people. Saddam Hussein ordered millions of his own people killed using chemical weapons because they were of a different race. The younger of the Hussein sons was personally responsible for murdering 300,000 Shiite Muslims in the early 1990's because they dared to ask for freedom - he personally executed the first 4 and then commanded his thugs to finish the job. The elder Hussein son did such unspeakable things to women and men that I can't even mention them on a forum such as this and even his father thought he was so dangerous and wacked that he was prevented from inheriting the leadership of the nation.

THESE are the kind of brutal and primitive people I'm referring to Scott and Venessa. These are the people who are the primary target of those photos. Violence only understands violence.

And how it is that you somehow think that the 3,000 or so soldiers that the American forces have killed since this war started somehow makes them more evil that the Iraqi leaders who've murders millions of innocent civilians. Now THAT's stupidity!!!

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), July 27, 2003.

It is beyond me, Fr. Michael and T. Fyfe, why you continue to make such lewd and disgusting comments towards Lady Theresa. You must have a very boring and hopeless existence! You wait and wait and wait for Lady Tee to post, and then you pounce like a couple of savage wolves. What is it? That you just cannot stand goodness? You cannot stand to hear of the love of Christ? You cannot stand to hear of His love even for YOU?

God help you, Fr. Michael and T. Fyfe, you poor poor wretched, pitiful, pathetic souls. Only Christ can save you from the filth in which you dwell. Only Christ can transform your pitiful existence. He is ready to forgive even the most heathen amongst us, even you!

May His love pierce your hearts, and may his Spirit convict your conscience.

Gail

P.S. Oh, the Blood of Jesus, indeed, washes white as snow!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 27, 2003.

Hi theresa,My personel veiw on this is i look at any death as sad. And i don't find any pleasure in seeing this type of public display of dead corpses is gonna do anyone any good. I am against it in any form...

-- Andrew M Tillcock (drewmeister7@earthlink.net), July 27, 2003.

Gail thanks for flying to my aid and defense!!!

yep, I hear you too about the pictures, I guess what I saw in looking at them, were my own two sons, and when all is said and done, and they're laying in their coffins, ahhhhhhhhh, all we can do is pray for mercy, they too, were once innocent little boys.

I know it's complicated, my God, sometimes the evil around us is overwhelming. But I'm convinced when perpetrators are dead that does not mean there is 'closure'. People who were raped or tormented are so "relieved" when their captors are caught or killed; "ah, justice is done, now there's closure, now we can sleep". uh uh, no way. Death doesn't do that.

I'm not directing this at you dear Gail, I know you understand, I'm just processing this out too. What is the freedom the Iraqi people will need? Is it photos of their dead torturers? If we're not healed by the touch of Jesus interiorly, we're still looking over our shoulders in fear. WHo is the real boogie man? Theresa

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), July 28, 2003.

Hey Lady Tee,

I think if it were me, it would be mostly a psychological need that would be filled by seeing that they were actually gone. These poor people have lived under the Saddam threat for over 30 years. One couldn't speak ill of any of the regime without SEVERE repercussions. Plus, in the past there were times when the Husseins were thought to be dead, and then, lo and behold, here they are again. Can you imagine, thinking they were gone, poking your head up out of the sand, and boom, they take off one of your kids to a torture camp!

The other thing is that the Saddam loyalists must SEE with their own eyes that their guys are dead and that they are surely losing the battle. Anyway, it is an exploitive tactic to be sure, but the alternative is that these Iraqi's would have to live with faith only in "rumors" with no certainty whatsoever.

I have thought about the fact that these boys were once innocent, and I also think about the mothers whose sons have served this evil regime and lost their lives doing it. Mother Mary pray for the mothers of Iraq!!

May Jesus Christ's name be exalted!

Lots of Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 28, 2003.

Thanks dear Gail, yes I see, we are far removed from such a life, but if it were our existence, in order for our lives to begin to get in order we'd need to really know these things were so. Do you think papa Saddam will pull some retaliation, if he's still alive? Tee

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), July 28, 2003.

I figured that the pictures were really for the Iraquis, not the Americans. If one had to live under a psychopath, one would REALLY want to know they were dead before switching loyalties. After all, look at the Bay of Pigs.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 28, 2003.

Not so long ago while everone was saying the weapons of mass destruction was right there, I made a post making no direct comparison about that war, but focusing on what God says about war, and how human beings are supposed to live regardless or race, colour or whatever feature since every one is created by God. However, somone posted that it was some kind of a political post immediately and demanded it to be deleted, and some people agreed on that. I left the forum then, knowing that even among catholics who proclaim to uphold the word of God, when "tricky" things like "their" or "our" or "my" things like country and things like that are concerned, the human tendency to forget God's words and vouch for land, which is land instead of understanding that human life is superior to a piece of land. Instead of "my world" or "our world", it changes into "my country" and what "my people" do whether right or wrong. The priority changes from standing by God to standing by other things. In those circumstances, those people have a gift given by Go'd adversary to change posts where it is said about love and peace into political posts.

The most interesting thing is, when things change unexpectedly, all these views make a dramatic turn. Posting about displaying pictures of Saddam's sons is not political, but aboslutely catholic. If someone talks about love and it could be changed into politics and as "non-catholic" (see the irony), it should be indeed easy to do it in reverse.

I do not call identify myself as a catholic. I call myself as a christian. Every catholic is a christian, and every true christian follows the holy universal church of God. When interests differ in a community like this, it leads to confusion and trouble for many. I am absolutely sure that God will send, or has sent some message to open up our eyes and see what we are doing. Instead of talking about being catholic and at certain times throw it all away and justify bashing others and finding different meanings, simply obeying his word and upholding it is the best thing that anyone can do. I am not surprised to know why God would allow such an important forum which gives useful information to many, to be disrupted by imposters and such.

Even saints are not free from temptations, and it is very hard to keep up true faith when personal judgements or opinions differ from it, but anyone can do it, as long as the desire is there, and the heart is pure.

God bless this forum and everyone. I did not use this post to mention anything about my post or what happened, or to say that posting things like this is not supposed to be in a catholic forum, or anything like that, but to point out how dangerous it is when interests collide. It is more dangerous than it sounds, especially to devouted catholics. The more we know, the more responsible we are, and the more we have to suffer because of our ignorance or carelessness. It is very serious.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), August 06, 2003.

I happened to remember one man who died a very painful and humiliating death, and at he moment of his death he prayed to forgive those who cruelly did it to him. He just happened to be God himself. I have a strange sensation when catholics list the cruel things in the world and lists the cruel people, and says that they should go to hell and burn and suffer, and no one but God wants to give them one more chance whether they are dead or alive. If innocent people died they are at God's side, their home, where we all long to go. On the other hand, the evil people who died without God's grace await terrible fate, and God shows mercy even to them. Even many catholics "willingly" forget God's words are replace them with their own justification, looking to justify themselves. it is normal for a normal person to condemn the bad people, but a true christian does not. It is disturbing to see at some times, God's words are thrown away like trash replacing them with human words. I think even among catholics, some are trying to replace God's "old" words with modern views and means of justification. Only, they do not know they are so involved in all the wordly things that will disappear forever. This dangerous phenomenon has caused even highly devoted catholics and even scholars. It is actually quite simple to get away from this danger. Then again, no one would want to hear something they do not want to admit or agree with. I guess this goes on forever and ever.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), August 06, 2003.