Not real happy with the new rates. Who can (or why would) anyone drive 125 miles in one hour?

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2003

Answers

I agree. Not so thrilled with the new mileage rates, I make lots of short trips which take time, rather than miles. I'll be sure to watch if things even out, as promised...

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2003

I would have to agree... while I agree that getting rid of the mileage requirement is a plus, maybe some compromise could have been made. And now the higher daily rates really push car rental companies into the forefront. I do see it as a plus when I have some extra time booked at the end of my reservation. Now I can go run some errands or enjoy the freedom of driving around for a while. We will see how it all works out...

-- Anonymous, July 15, 2003

I also think these new rates will make it more expensive for most people. Boston is a very small city, so mileage isn't as much of a burden on the total cost as time is.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2003

For instance- right now the cost for my drive to church from Alewife is 17.64, including tax. New rate could go as high as $21.00, without tax. Not good.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2003

$9.50 per HOUR for a Beetle in JP??? It started out at $5.00! Now, this is almost double! There seems not to have been any middle ground considered here. If I'm just going to the laundromat, it could conceivably cost me $28.50 before tax! Yikes! A cab, although a little more troublesome, is a better value. This rate hike is going to certainly make sure that I ONLY use Zipcar when I MUST, and I certainly won't be able to use it for long! $9.50 per HOUR??! Come on, Zipcar.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2003

I, for one, would like to see the rates stay as they are. At the very least, give me the option of sticking with the current rate scheme and letting others choose to pay a $implified hourly rate.

The proposed rates make it much more difficult to use Zipcar the way I use it now: short trips around the city. Recent examples (excluding tax):

* Shopping errands at Target: 3 hours, 9 miles total what I paid 3*6.00 + 9*0.40 = $21.60 new rate 3*8.50 = $25.50

* Pick up friends (and lots of luggage) at the bus station: 2 hours, 10 miles what I paid 2*6.00 + 10*0.40 = $16.00 new rate 2*8.50 = $17.00

Most of my Zipcar trips are like the above. Some uses for Zipcar just go out the window completely under the new rates. For example, I would not be willing to let the car sit parked on the curb while I was at a friend's party for several hours. No more fun discussions with friends about the Zipcar I used to get there.

As stated in the "new rates" e-mail, one of the goals is to "improve availability for hourly use." Although they were referring to the new daily rates, the structure of the new hourly rate actually encourages me to use Zipcar only for trips that take me farther away. This, consequently, would mean I would have the car longer. It seems to me that this would not improve availability. Has anyone been having trouble finding a car when they needed it? That hasn't happened to me yet.

Speaking of the daily rates, by the way, what is so wrong with having the car for a day? Some trips just can't be scheduled to fit in a specific time window. If it really does cause availability problems, then tell me which car has historically been least used for the day I want it and I'll go get it. Better yet, get some more cars, designate them for daily use and keep them in a cheap parking lot somewhere. Price the "daily use" cars reasonably and I'll find a way to get to that lot.

There are two ways to "improve availability" of the cars: (1) raise the price so high that people can't afford to use them (2) change the system so people can use the cars the way they want.

I vote for #2.

-- Anonymous, July 16, 2003

I don't get it? Why (try to) fix something that's not broken? And then make it worse?

I think Zipcar's making a decision based upon financial incentives, not member's interests. I agree with 'New Bad Rates'... There are at least two ways to make cars available more often. Zipcar has decided to play according to the rules of economics, without regard for us, their loyal members. Demand went up, so prices are going up. If you ask me, that sucks. I kind of always thought of Zipcar as more of a co-op and a friendly group of people sharing cars. Now they're nothing more than money hungry business exec's. I can understand if the cost of maintaining the cars or insurance went up, but this is just a simple case of price gouging.

Something else that's interesting. There's a competing company, which will remain nameless, in the DC metro area that rents for $8/hour with 10 miles included for each hour. Zipcar currently charges between $8.50 and $10.50 an hour, not including mileage. How much is it going to be in August? What gives? Well, if prices don't give, I'll be going... and not in a Zipcar.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2003

Zipcar has a new CEO. Just food for thought.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2003

Hello all

I am quite discouraged by the new rates. Like others of you who have posted,I primarily rely on zipcar for short trips within the city. I have calculated my usual zipcar trips (yoga classes, visits to the Fells, visits to non-T accessible friends, medical appointments); my charges will be on average 25% higher under the new system. This is enough to make me consider - with regrets - leaving Zipcar(after 2.5 years of membership and zipcar cheerleading.)

I appreciate that zipcar is responding to feedback/complaints from certain members, but perhaps there is another group that was not heard from during the reevaluation process: those of us for whom the system was working well.

Having two billing systems would no doubt be an operational nightmare, but there must be a way to acknowledge that there are different types of zipcar driving behavior. Perhaps Zipcar would consider a rebate feature: something like a $5 credit for those who drive 10 miles or less for a 3+ hour reservation.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2003

Since the goal is to simplify, sales tax ought be included. Then (and only then) will the posted price exactly match what you'll pay.

I wonder if the new Romney 'fees not taxes' policy will impact Zipcar. I uderstand the fees for car leasing will more than double.

-- Anonymous, July 17, 2003

Unfortunately, there isn't really any competing service that we can go to. We're basically held captive by zipcar because it's the only company offering convenient, short-term car rentals in Boston.

What are we going to do? Leave zipcar? They won't exactly be shedding tears over a few people deciding to leave. Most people will stay because there isn't any other real option.

We need a new company to come up and compete with zipcar. Only then will consumers have their voice heard.

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2003

Hi I am sure you are getting a lot of calls/email about the new rates. I do have concerns listed below: 1) I do mostly city driving and duration is more important than mileage fees. I took an analysis of the last 2 months and found that this new rate will be higher for me pretty consistently. 2) The jump from $6 to $8.50 is steep. If this were the structure from the outset I would not have tried ZipCar. I wonder if this would be appealing to others and attract new business. $95 a day?? 3) If these rates continue, I am sure a lot of people would do the math again and find it more economical to own a car.

4) The quality of cars is going down. I have been in unsafe ZipCars on more than one ocassion in the past two months!

Quality goes down and rates go up. What is wrong with this equation??

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2003

I am seeing a lot of posts from disgruntled Zipcar members and no response from Zipcar execs. If you're out there and listening, are you planning on addressing our concerns?

-- Anonymous, July 18, 2003

Really disappointed with a zipcar! Inside a umbrella of pretending to consider your customers, you are deceiving them in a disgusting manner! Just be frank to say you want to raise the fee! I'll buy my own car not to transact business with such a mean, dirty company!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Anonymous, July 19, 2003

Just joining the general chorus of disapproval -- this is just a way to disguise a big rate increase, not a new "feature". For both of my usual ZipCar uses (grocery shopping and work meetings out in the 'burbs), the price is going to go up substantially.

-- Anonymous, July 19, 2003

Asa DC member, I find this discussion interesting. Someone stated that Zipcar has competition in DC which is true, but they are the same price or more expensive than Zipcar, as Zip includes all mileage, plus, you are limited to Honda Civics with the other company and I think you have to use lockboxes. I for one was happy with the new rates (switched 3 months or so ago here) as a trip to the airport to pick up my folks was cut by 2/3. My bills have been the same or less since the switch, so I would encourage fellow members to see the final bill before passing judgement.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2003

First of all, I didn't realize that the DC Zipcar rates included mileage. It would have been nice for them to have told that to those of us in other areas, had any of us decided to reserve a car in DC. I assumed that the charges in all areas worked the same, just different prices. Thanks for pointing that out Jim.

With regard to actual differences in cost... Zipcar is cheaper than the other company IF you drive an average of more than 6 miles per hour. Take their rate of $8 per hour, which includes 10 miles per hour and compare it to a former Zipcar rate of $6 per hour plus 40 cents per mile, or Zipcar's current DC rate of $8.50 per hour with unlimited mileage. If you're making a short trip to the grocery store, say 5 miles round-trip (which in my impression is typical of a lot of trips taken by Zipcar users) and it takes you 1.5 hours, the other company will charge you $12, Zipcar's old rates would cost $12 ($9 + $2 in mileage), and Zipcar's new rates would cost $12.75. You don't really 'save' any money until you start driving longer distances: A 3 hour reservation with 30 miles of driving would cost $24 for the other company vs $30 at the old Zipcar rates vs $25.50 at the new rates.

This pricing strategy rewards people for driving farther and penalizes people who drive shorter distances, which seems counter-intuitive to Zipcar's environmentally friendly mission. The one thing that I really do not like about the other company's rates are all of the confusing plans, just like all of those stupid, 'gimmicky', ever-changing cell phone plans. At least Zipcar's rate changes have been designed with the intention of keeping things simple.

-- Anonymous, July 20, 2003

As a member since October of 2000, I agree with many of the postings. to arbitrarily charge everyone for an average mileage per hour is a bad thing for many reasons. 1] It encourages driving fast, which is less safe for car and driver. 2] It doesn't reflect the true cost of operation, which is not good. 3] It doesn't encourage logical trip planning as much. 4] It discourages reserving for an extra hour in case of delays. 5] It is like freshness dating a can of Pepsi- all hype and no benefit.

It is not too late. Please cancel this idea before you piss off all of your loyal members. This will only encourage them to switch to flexcar when they come to Boston. This is serious! Robin, if you are reading this, you know that I do not bug you about trivialities. DON'T MAKE THIS MISTAKE!

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2003

Here's how the "125 free miles" rate structure will affect my thinking about reserving a Zipcar:

If I drive a short distance I'll feel that I'm "wasting" miles. I'll feel that my rates are subsidizing others. And I'll be less likely to book extra time at the end of a reservation.

* * * I agree that simple, clear rates are important. Avoiding "airline" or "cell phone" pricing is a critical part of the Zipcar value proposition.

Sales taxes, annual fees, deposits, monthly fees and plans are all things I find complicated. The annual fee is the main reason I hesitated to become a Zipcar member, even after I sold my car. The sales tax is a hidden fee that feels deceptive.

But "hours + miles = rate" is very clear, fair, and simple.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2003

the 'other company' does not charge a 300 dollar deposit. 25 dollar lifetime membership fee only.

-- Anonymous, July 21, 2003

My concern that Zip Car is raising rates on the backs of those of us who are not heavy users. My value proposition with Zip Car is, "If I have to get somewhere, and a taxi each way will cost more than 1.5x the Zip Car, I'll use the Zip Car. With the new rates I may never want to use Zip Car. For my types of Zip Car trips the new costs will be about even to take the Taxi or Zip car. A real loss of my incentive to use the Zip Car.

My trips are usually short, quick, and done in a hurry, and to make these trips during lunch can mean a wait for a taxi. I appreciate that Zip Car is always there, parked and waiting for you, however I feel that with the new pricing structure I'll never see the rates balance out for me.

My short trips, almost always less than 3 hours to places in the city which don't facilitate a fast in and out by T, are key to my using Zip Car. Please reconsider your price increase.

--Tom

-- Anonymous, July 23, 2003

Re the price changes in Boston and what's behind them...

We implemented hourly flat rates in Washington DC last spring. These changes didn't happen on a whim. We do a weekly survey of a random sample of active users. We talk to quitting members and we work hard to understand the thinking of prospective members.

The change to flat hourly pricing in DC has brought few complaints and much kudos as members have seen their invoices. Driving habits of the DC market have changed little, and the surveys report that members continue to consider Zipcar a good value.

While the pricing change effects different kinds of trips differently, we aren't trying to encourage or discourage any particular type of driving...members’ hourly costs have always been the lion's share of their reservation totals and, as such, the biggest influence on trip planning.

For the business, mileage-related expenses are a smaller part of our operating costs than for most car owners. We did spend a lot of time modeling the changes on existing reservations, individual users and on business performance. One kind of driving doesn't really subsidize another.

Our goal is widespread adoption and we try to match the needs of existing members with the expectations of those who haven't joined. We will succeed (and have impact) through continued growth and ubiquity, not through adjustments to individual driving habits (which, for our members, are already pretty efficient). Stephen Oakley, Director, Zipcar Boston

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2003

Washington DC is not Boston and I beg your pardon but their driving habits ought not to dictate what happens here in Boston, Zipcar's one profitable market.

-- Anonymous, July 25, 2003

What an absolutely arrogant response from Zipcar's Mr. Oakley. It sounded very pro-business with NO regard for the loyal customer base. Zipcar used to have a friendly, down-home feel to it. Profit was made, but people still felt important. Sorta like we were all in this together. NOW- it's a total capitalist approach like any other business. I say BRING ON THE COMPETITION! No $300 deposit, either? No big time corporate RATE HIKES? Flexcar is more than welcome here.

-- Anonymous, July 26, 2003

Again, I am a DC member, but for those of you who want to see Flexcar in Boston, here are some facts for you: No web reservation system Only Honda Civics and Elements (the Elements are $10!, Zips are $9.50) Fill out paper logs no max daily rates 10 free miles an hour, and then .35, so a RT to the airport which is 60 miles, would run you $37, but would be $17 in Zipcar. Correct me if I am wrong, but for the same price, or significantly less, I can't even find the comparison between the two services.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 2003

I see the advantage of matching Flexcar's rate structure... but still don't like it.

-- Anonymous, July 31, 2003

In response to Zipcar: Srange. You say "people don't know how far they will drive". I have the opposite problem when making a reservation. I usually know exactly how many miles I will drive, but don't know how long it will take.

-- Anonymous, August 02, 2003

Want to add my voice to the chorus of people upset with the pricing structure change. By bundling mileage with hourly rates you penalise people who use Zipcar for short trips only and for those who intelligently plan their errands. In terms of driving habits, the new rates will make almost every trip I take more expensive.

I've also noticed cars being moved a lot lately with no prior warning and bad general condition (pet hair, dirt, etc.) in some cases with no response to e-mails indicating these problems. Surely it can't be too hard to e-mail frequent users of a particular car when it is going to be taken off the road for a few weeks, rather than leaving them to scratch their heads when the car simply vanishes from its spot and the Zipcar reservation page.

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2003

I just got rid of one of the family's 2 cars and joined Zipcar as an alternative. It was a little surprising to read that the rates were going up 8/5, right after I made this irreversible decision (note I say "going up" because clearly that's what happened unless you drive the Zipcar into the ground while you have it...)

The rates do discourage my use, so thinking like an economist I wonder if they really make more money for Zipcar. They probably do despite the lower usage, since I assume they did some research before making the change. I understand their need to make the service make money and generally think they are trying to do the right thing.

My problem is the magnitude of the increase. A jump from $6 to $8.50 (it was actually $9.50 for a while but they seem to have lowered it) on my local Zipcar is a big shift, and may eventually push me back to buying a second car.

But that's my problem, not Zipcar's, I guess. I will still use Zipcar for long trips since the mileage is not included. I will avoid it on the local trips, particularly ones where I am going to park the car for any significant time.

-- Anonymous, August 12, 2003

Alex Corn has it exactly right: The vast majority of drivers know pretty close to the number of miles they will be traveling, but thanks to our current state of automania, there is no telling how long it will take to get through all of the traffic jams. This latest simplification of rates is nothing more than a thinly veiled rate hike. I am very disappointed with Zipcar for making this latest move with the song and dance that it will make Zipcar more appealing. If they are losing money and need a rate hike, they should just admit it. Trying to spin it any other way is just pissing off loyal members like me, who got Zipcar its first 2 spaces in Brookline before the first meeting.

-- Anonymous, August 13, 2003

A quick integration with "driving directions" from Mapquest or Yahoo! would have solved the "I don't know how far I will drive" question.

-- Anonymous, August 19, 2003

Some feedback on the new rates: There are quite a lot of cars "on sale" now. Taking a car for a day makes financial sense only if you grab such a "driving special".

But the reservation screen shows only the hourly rate, not the daily special rate. It thus becomes tedious (read: "not simple") to find an available car that's also a "driving special".

-- Anonymous, August 30, 2003

I agree with most people and think the new rates suck! I understand that the rates were increased on an hourly basis, but why they also went sky high for daily rates I have no idea. They always gave you 125 miles for free in a day usage... I only went over that once when I drove home to NY for a family emergency (and when I was 5 minutes late getting back from the funeral, and called and said I would be late, they were more than happy to slap that $25 fine on me).

Here in DC before the rate changes, I was used to paying 55-65 dollars for a daily rate -- now I pay 85-105! That is crazy! In one month I racked up over 600 dollars in charges. I have decided that Zipcar is very quick to slap fees and charges on loyal customers without researching things first, but constantly say we are so sorry, when you get a zipcar that is not working or is having problems (Beetle Bambi - Civic Chad at it's old Georgetown location). I think they are getting a bit to greedy and I have decided that taking the metro here in DC will be cheaper (might be more of a hassle), but at least it won't cost me $30.

I have decided that I would part ways after this month with Zipcar!

Good Luck Everyone!

-- Anonymous, September 02, 2003

Hi,

I have to disagree with Valerie about Zipcar being "happy to slap on extra charges" - I've always found them to be fair about this, and was actually pleasantly surpised recently when they gave me a credit on a reservation where the previous driver had not returned the car in time for my scheduled reservation and I had to call Zipcar to find a different car I could use. But, I do have have one complaint with the new rates - there used to be no charge if you had a car between midnight and six AM, and now it costs $2 per hour. My problem is that I used Zipcar a lot to get back and forth to some classes I take that end late at night, when I don't feel safe on the T, and it's too far for a taxi to be cost-effective. I used to make the reservation until 6AM, drive home and park the car in front of my house, then wake up right before 6AM and return the car to its space. Now, the $2/hour charge makes that really expensive, but I don't feel comfortable leaving the Zipcar in its space and walking back to my house alone late at night. It looks like I'll be getting more creative about how I find a ride home, and Zipcar will be losing out on the very regular reservations I used to make for this purpose.

--Liz Hughes

-- Anonymous, September 27, 2003