Marriage Question

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If the Catholic Church does not recognize a marriage outside of the Catholic Church, then why would you have to have a previous marriage annulled?

Seems to me that if that marriage was one that never happened in the eyes of God then it should not have to be annulled and only Catholic divorces should be annulled.

Does this make sense?

-- Greg (gman1fs@sbcglobal.net), July 07, 2003

Answers

Jmj

It would "make sense," Greg, if your original premise were true -- i.e., that "the Catholic Church does not recognize a marriage outside of the Catholic Church."

But that is not true.

The truth is that the Catholic Church presumes as "valid" any marriage between two atheists, two Jews, two Muslims, two Hindus, two Protestants, etc., or any "mixed marriage" involving two non-Catholics.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 08, 2003.


Greg,

You say: "Seems to me that if that marriage was one that never happened in the eyes of God then it should not have to be annulled and only Catholic divorces should be annulled"

This demonstrates a lack of understanding of just what annulment is. Annulments apply ONLY to marriages "that never happened in the eyes of God". Annulment does not end or change anything. It is simply a statement to the effect that validity never existed, due to a serious impediment present at the time of the wedding. Marriages that "never happened in the eyes of God" are precisely those "marriages" that require annulment. A marriage that is valid in the eyes of God cannot be dissolved by any means except the death of one of the spouses.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 08, 2003.


Hi Greg,

I don't have the answer to your question but I agree with why you are asking it. I am in the same situation at the moment, where I want to marry my non-Catholic fiancee, who has been married before. The Catholic Church requires her to get an annulment even though she didn't get married in a Catholic ceremony, not to mention she was never married in a church at all. Why should she ask for permission, when it had nothing to do with the Catholic church to begin with. It's just ridiculous!

-- Anonymous (none@none.cm), July 08, 2003.


Dear Anon,

It has nothing to do with "permission". It has to do with ascertaining - as a service to you and to her - whether or not she is objectively free to marry. Finding out now whether impediments exist to a valid Catholic marriage sure beats finding out 15 years after the wedding that you never actually were married!

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 08, 2003.


Paul,

The marriage ended due to circumstances beyond her control. They went through the divorce procedure, so legally it's all over. What makes the Catholic Church so special that they can refuse to marry someone cause they've been married before? Why are some other religions more excepting? Not only did she have the heartache of divorce, but she then needs to fight to get married again in a Catholic church. She has to bring up all this past and heartache of an annullmanet when it wasn't her fault it ended to begin with. And the ridiculous questions they ask when you apply for an annullment. Who do these people think they are I are? I'm really appalled with them, and we have decided to get married in her religion. Despite what the Catholic Church will think, I will still be regarded as married, and that's what matters. Not what a bunch of people think of me and my love for someone.

-- Anonymous (none@none.com), July 08, 2003.



Jmj
Hello, Anonymous. Your words are in italics below.

The marriage ended due to circumstances beyond her control. They went through the divorce procedure, so legally it's all over.

Suppose person A murders person B, is tried, but is not convicted. To use your words, "legally it's all over," but you and I know that it's not "all over" in reality. Person A -- judged to be "not guilty" -- is actually guilty, is still on the streets, but cannot be tried again. My point is that when something is "legally ... all over," that doesn't tell the whole story. A marriage that is "legally ... all over" cannot be labeled as "all over" theologically. A valid marriage is not "all over" until a spouse dies. That's why the Church must determine whether or not there existed a valid marriage.

What makes the Catholic Church so special that they can refuse to marry someone cause they've been married before?

It's not that "they've been married before," but that they may STILL be married! When Jesus founded the Catholic Church -- the Body of Christ -- God gave her the power "to bind and loose," which includes the ability to judge a "union" as being valid or invalid (i.e., never a real marriage at all).

Why are some other religions more excepting?

I'm not sure what you are asking. Did you mean, "more ACcepting"? If so, it is because only the Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth. All other religions (and non-Catholic Christian communities) teach errors on the subject of the permanence of marriage, making them "more accepting" of adultery than they ought to be.

Not only did she have the heartache of divorce, but she then needs to fight to get married again in a Catholic church.

Point 1: Life is not necessarily a rose garden. Sometimes innocent people have to suffer a bit. You both will get over it and will have no regrets.
Point 2: No one can "get married again" until a spouse dies. After a Declaration of Nullity is granted, what appears to you to be a second marriage ("remarriage") that takes place in a Catholic ceremony is actually the couple's FIRST marriage. What happened to one or both of them before was not a marriage.

Despite what the Catholic Church will think, I will still be regarded as married, and that's what matters. Not what a bunch of people think of me and my love for someone.

The Catholic Church doesn't "think," but knows/teaches/judges. The fact that you are whining here is a sign that, down deep, you are feeling guilty about your plans. Your public trumpeting is a psychological trick to fool yourself into having the courage to go through with something that you know is gravely morally wrong. Oh, and "be[ing] regarded as married" is rubbish, because you won't be thus "regarded" by God, whose judgment is the one that really matters. The Catholic Church is God's instrument, letting you know that you won't really be married in his eyes. Set aside your bravado, and do what is right.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 09, 2003.


John,

You say do "what is right." What is right is that I love this person and I want to spend the rest of my life with her. That's what is right! God can see that I love this person and I want to be with her. I'm not doing anything wrong by being with her. It's not my choice to not get married in the Catholic Church, it's the Catholic Churches choice. I'm left with no option. You don't know the story with my partner and the reason for her divorce. I'm not hanging around for a year to 18 months waiting to see if an annullment will be granted, and then to find out it could possibly be knocked back. No thanks! I have a life to live and I'm not hanging around for no one. God will always be with us. And if I have committed a sin, he will forgive me, cause God loves me like he loves everyone. God knows my good intentions are there, despite the opinions of some of those on this forum.

-- Anonymous (none@none.com), July 09, 2003.


Anon calls the girl ''my partner''. He sure hasn't hung around for 18 months. He didn't care any at all, because he has her for a ''partner'' anyway??? No wonder he's ''anonymous'' here. I would be too.

There's no religious intention anyway, is there? This is merely paying lip service to God; who, if He doesn't like it, --anon won't care. He feels God has to love him, moral or immoral. ''if I have committed a sin, he will forgive me, cause God loves me like he loves everyone.'' --

He'll forgive your sin, even if you never repent, anonymous???

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), July 09, 2003.


Exactly right, Eugene. Assuming that God will forgive a sin without repentance ... is itself a mortal sin called "presumption." Like despair, presumption is a sin against the Holy Spirit that cannot be forgiven at death. These are the sins that lead to damnation.

The one sign of hope is that "Anonymous" uses these words:
"... if I have committed a sin ...".
At least he is open to that possibility, which is better than insisting that he can do as he pleases without any possibility of offending God.
JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 10, 2003.


I will pray for your soul and hope that one day MY FATHER can look at you and say, these are mislead children and I will forgive them for their petty thinking.

God Bless your strayed heart and soul!!

I am going to be leaving this forum. I WILL LIVE MY LIFE IN LOVE WITH THE WOMAN I LOVE AND WITH GOD HOLDING OUR HANDS.

You will always be unhappy and seek the same God and the maybe one day you might find him beside you when you welcome everyone and Love them for what they are and not judge them. Leave the judging for God, it's job and not some people like you guys.

-- Anonymous (none@none.com), July 18, 2003.



i cant believe you people so miny diferent opinions but i think i will take the the apolstle pauls and the desciples opinion "Haven't you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together. lET MAN NOT separate." Matth.19:4-6 "It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail." "Anyone who DIVORCES his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." Luke16:18 "Anyone who DIVORCES his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery." Mark.10:11-12 by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage." Rom.7:2 "A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, ...." 1 Cor.7:39 "To the married I give this command ( not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must NOT divorce his wife." 1 Cor.7:10- 11 "The Lord is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant. Has not the Lord made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his." "So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith with the wife of your youth. I hate divorce, says the Lord." Mal.2:14

-- jason kennon (jasonkennon@yahoo.com), December 14, 2003.

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