Save Our Sundays, A Sunday Law is cominggreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
Would like to invite you to visit our web site Save Our Sundays There are reasons to believe from what we hear that a Sunday Law is coming .According to this sites this indeed is happening http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/sundaylaw.html
*** PLEASE SAY NO TO SUNDAY SHOPPING LETS KEEP OUR SUNDAYS A DAY OF REST***
-- Tony Lohnes (saynotosundayshopping@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003
In Texas, we used to have what was called blue laws. These laws stipulated what could and could not be sold on Sundays.They have been repealed, with no real effect one way or another.
What we need to do is encourage the merchants to completely close their doors on Sundays / Holy days.
I proud to say that there are still some businesses that advertise the fact that they are closed in observance.
God Bless,
-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), July 01, 2003.
It appears Sunday shopping is a problem world wide it was just defeated in Australia .http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0, 5478,6675665%255E462,00.html
John i'm hoping the laws will be reversed and nothing is impossible. People have not really heard our side of the coin. If we had millions of dollars to advertise on TV , i'm sure the people would not want Sunday shopping. God Bless , thanks for allowing us to post on your forum.
-- Tony Lohnes (saynotosundayshopping@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003.
There is no reason to save our sundays. The sabbath was fulfilled with Jesus Christ!
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@prodigy.net), July 01, 2003.
There is enough already going on in the corporate world. People need some rest and ability to take in activities and family values freely without interference, as a result most retail activity should be banned on Sundays, as well as on all major holidays, religious or not. It is more than a religious issue, it is a quality of life issue as well.
-- Craig (flowersongbird06@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003.
Uh, what exactly would happen on the Sabbath? Would it be a day of rest as with the Jewish law?What is higher than a religious reason compared to a "quality of life issue"?
How many people will keep the Sabbath because of Blue Laws who don't already keep the Sabbath?
rod.. . .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003.
The problem with legal Sunday shopping is that it puts the businesses that do close on Sundays at a disadvantage.My grandfather owned a general store most of his life and was gradually forced to keep his store open on Sundays- because all of his competition did.
Sure, making Sunday shopping illegal would be mean to customers who have grown to depend on it, but maybe our "instant" society needs a day of silence and consideration for everyone who serves us.
-- Catherine Ann (catfishbird@yahoo.ca), July 01, 2003.
Here is an example of Man keeping the Sabbath vs. the Sabbath keeping the Man.Do we shoot ourselves in the foot by closing shop and losing money to feed our family or is it more important to keep the "law"?
Do we keep the law for the laws sake or to we keep the meaning of the law, which is to keep God as our driving force?
The law means nothing. We are not ruled by the law, we rule the law. If for some keeping the Sabbath is to deny certain activities, excellent. Jesus made it clear; sometimes we must do things that we must do.
rod. . .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003.
Yes, Jesus recognized that servile work is sometimes unavoidable even on the Sabbath. "And He said to them, "Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?" (Luke 14:5) And the Church, in this same spirit, recognizes the difference between unavoidable work and avoidable work. Sunday should not be the day we set aside to clean out the garage. But if a water pipe breaks in the basement, we are not going to wait until monday to take action. Likewise, people who work in various professions have no choice but to work at least some sundays.It is true that closing your business out of respect for the Lord's Day is some disadvantage in worldly terms. But frankly, if the way we live our Christian lives doesn't make our lives more difficult in some ways, we should really examine ourselves critically to see if we are actually living as Christians. Someone who is truly living as a Christian in the midst of a largely pagan society is going to make some waves and bump some heads. It can't be avoided while still living out the gospel message fully.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 01, 2003.
If you close the shops on Sundays, then you should not have pro sporting events or anything else that people have to pay to attend either. If the issue is that people should not do anything that makes money on Sunday, then shopping is not the only activity that should be banned.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 01, 2003.
Listen, Fiends:
Of course there ought to be time set apart, and a Christian appreciation of the Lord's Day.I'm only saying it is absurd and ureasonable to legislate morality, as if we had Big Brother to thank for keeping holy the Lord's day! That's uncalled for; making laws in the manner of Islam! It has to be something voluntary. Not something (ONE MORE THING) the government can exact FINES for. That is plain interference in private lives.
Why doesn't the government legalize CRIME? It could change the law. Make all crime legal! Think of all the wonderful advances. No police force. No lawyers. Equal opportunity for all. Robin Hood; your money or your life! I'll vote for that. Why not, if I can vote for pushing you around anyway I choose? Did you ever hear of freedom? What have you got against freedom?
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), July 01, 2003.
Well, we do want the government to legislate morality, such as a ban on abortion, murder, rape, theft, etc. These are all moral issues and we certainly want the government involved. But Eugene's point is well-taken, we don't need the government to enforce God's laws on CHRISTIANS!We lost our Sundays a long long long time ago, and it really is a shame that so many people lose their family time to shopping due to the hectic lives they live, or perhaps just a lust for more! I hate to do anything on Sunday but play and pray. Sometimes I have to go to the store, and it just seems to slop my whole day up!
Gail
-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 01, 2003.
Freedom hmm thats double speak, fact is shopping takes away peoples rights. Like the manager of a store wanting to spend Sunday home with his family. An employee that may want to attend church services and spend the day with his or her kids. Freedom? There are so many things out there we can not do and not being allowed to shop on Sunday wouldn't hurt anyone except those who have to give that day up.When someone elses freedom takes from another person it should be a LAW against this. Remember you have 6 days and 6 nights. Governments have crossed the line when they allowed stores to open 24/7. WE have a right to see stores closed one day a week with no traffic this should be a right to.
-- Tony (saynotosundayshopping@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003.
Tony are you Amish or something?That poor manager you speak of has a choice of doing something else besides working on Sundays. I have Saturday and Sunday off. I think we all still have the freedom to choose our careers and fit it into our religious lives.
I wonder. Would you hire or fire a 7th Day Adventist for refusing to work on a Saturday?
Would you force a 7th Day Adventist to keep the Sabbath on a Sunday rather than a Saturday?
I would fear that the government would have a tough time figuring out which faith to favor and which to disfavor.
rod.. .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 01, 2003.
Anyone seriously interested in studying short debates on this topic should look at two other forum threads.
This one is simultaneously active now.
This one was a good one that was active in May, 2003.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 01, 2003.
RodIt's real interesting when you talk about which faith to favor it all pertains to retail only. Wonder if a seven day adventist wanted mail on Sunday would he get it? As a matter of fact there are several services not offered on Sunday. Would the seven day adventist be offended by that? Or just retail stores. It amazes me and you for one have Sat and Sunday both off, how can you begrudge retail workers from having there Sundays off?? It's not all about religion it's about having a day off from the week-end to spend with your families. You have both days off in the week-end why shouldn't retail workers have that same right? After all you are telling us it's a free country right? Free for whom? Freedom = Slavery and thats what we have in retail. There is NO freedom. Say No To Sunday Shopping
-- Tony Lohnes (saynotosundayshopping@yahoo.com), July 02, 2003.
Wonder if a seven day adventist wanted mail on Sunday would he get it?Actually, Loma Linda in California has mail on Sunday and not Saturday, it's a 7th day adventist town.
Point of info,
Frank
-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), July 02, 2003.
FrankActually, Loma Linda in California has mail on Sunday and not Saturday, it's a 7th day Adventist town.
There is my point the majority of American and Canadian towns are believers that Sunday is a day of rest. Where the seven day Adventists are a majority it should prevail there. Other wise a minority should not be controlling us. If retail is open Sundays so should everything be open. Other wise it's discrimination no other way to describe it.
-- Tony Lohnes (saynotosundayshopping@yahoo.com), July 02, 2003.
Hi Tony.Well then, call it a "labor dispute" and not a "religious dispute".
How can the 7th Day Adventist keep the Sabbath without turning the entire nation into 7th Day Adventist? If it works for them, why can't it work for the rest?
All it takes is for the faithful to take action as a religious body and take the day of Sabbath without the government stepping in. I do believe that there are laws already setup to prevent job discrimination based on religious affiliations, yes?
Who will take up the slack when everyone is off on the Sabbath? I supposed that all the pagans, heathens, satanists, and atheists will open up shop and put Christians out of a job. Hand them the keys to your shops and say goodbye livelihood.
rod. .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 02, 2003.
The laws for Sunday shopping should include this line:-If, on the basis of religion, Sunday is not the sabbath for the owner/community, then this law does not apply on Sundays providing that they close on their day of sabbath.
-- Craig (flowersongbird06@yahoo.com), July 02, 2003.
Please explain why shopping on Sundays is so bad but it's okay to spend $$$ to go see a football game when there are people working there as well (no, I don't count the players, for that kind of money it isn't work, I mean the vendors, ticket takers, etc.I'd hardly call any sporting event essential any day of the week.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 02, 2003.
Oh, gosh, Oh man.Do we not keep the Sabbath if we have others work for us on the Sabbath? I mean that if I'm at home and flip a light switch on or turn the t.v. on I would cause someone to fail in keeping the Sabbath.
rod. . . . .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 03, 2003.
There is no need for Sunday Shopping It will end up costing the cosumer more in the long run.Store owners will have to raise prices in order to cover the overhead of opening an extra day.Also why should retail workers work on Sunday when you can not get your car fix,see your doctor.get mail delivery,send your kids to school or a day care,go for a loan at a bank etc etc Are these people any better than retail workers.I SAY NO TO SUNDAY SHOPPINGThank you Peter Hare
-- Peter Hare (peterhare@hotmail .com), July 03, 2003.
Hi Peter sorry to be a painful bore but I cant hep but offer my 2 cents on your economic theoryTo my way of thinking by taking advantage of "economies of scale", prices should fall: ie by spreading overheads (fixed costs) over more units of ouput (sales). Also any supplier will open for Sunday trading if demand is strong enough, assuming no legislative barriers exist. Unlike going to the bank or the doctor which is a "necessity" for all its consumers, shopping is a necessity for only some of its consumers and also a form of "recreation" to some people!
Simply saying "say no shopping on sunday" is like saying "no to lung cancer" while smoking ten packets of smokes a day.
It amuses me to see some people getting all uptight about shopping on Sunday while supporting the very economic system that has forced it to occur...its evolution baby!
Do the Evolution (E Vedder)
I'm ahead, the man I'm the first mammal to wear pants, yeah I'm at peace with my lust I can kill 'cause in God I trust, yeah It's evolution, baby
I'm a beast, I'm the man Buying stocks on the day of the crash On the loose, I'm a truck All the rolling hills I'll flatten them out, yeah It's heard behavior, uh huh It's evolution, baby
Admire me, admire my home Admire my son, he's my clone Yeah, yeah, yeah, This land is mine, this land is free I'll do what I want but i do irresponsibly It's evolution, baby
I'm a thief, I'm a liar Here's my church, and I sing in the choir: Hallelujah, halleujah
Admire me, admire my home Admire my song, admire my clothes An appetite for a nightly feast Those ignorant Indians got nothin' on me Nothin', why? Because, it's evolution, baby!
I am ahead, I am advanced I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah I crawled the earth, but now I'm hot I tried to chill yah, but you turned to fire It's evolution, baby Do the evolution Come on, come on, come on
;-)
-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), July 06, 2003.
I'm not sure, Kiwi.The way I see it, the stores around here remain open on Sundays for the convenience of a very few customers.
In which case, they are paying employees, lighting and heating, etc. for an extra day in which they actually have little turnover. I think most stores lose money, but keep their customer's goodwill by remaining open on Sundays. Is it worth it?
-- Catherine Ann (catfishbird@yahoo.ca), July 06, 2003.
OK , again , but I rewrote my reply , take off the cruel parts !!Sunday shopping , a problem ??
What about work at the weekends , than you also have to close restaurants , pubs , cinema , TV on sunday , all kinds of other entertaiments like concerts , all jobs at the weekend in some factories ?? Greets from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), July 06, 2003.
*Sigh*Maybe asking this third time will do it?
What is so intrinsically bad about shopping on Sundays when people are also engaged in other money-making activities (like pro sports) on Sundays?
If it is wrong to be making money on Sunday, then say that. Otherwise, I see no difference between buying entertainment (say a concert) or buying some other item.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 06, 2003.
Personally, I think that sports and entertainment are on the same level as Sunday shopping, because all of the above require someone else to work on Sundays.
-- Catherine Ann (catfishbird@yahoo.ca), July 06, 2003.
And what about doctors & hospitals ??
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), July 06, 2003.
And what about doctors & hospitals ??Greets from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), July 06, 2003.
There's no problem with doctors working on Sundays, Jesus himself told us this. The Church allows for necessary work. Taking care of the sick is not unnecessary, nor is taking care of the elderly, people who are in institutions, children in residential homes etc. None of these things can wait till another day.God bless
-- Sara (sara_catholic_forum@yahoo.co.uk), July 06, 2003.
Some Sports or happenings are always on sunday !!If I can do a concert on sunday , why not ??
But to close all shops etc. on sunday , no sorry , I disagree 100% !!
You can tell them to close 1 day a week , ok , but not all at the same time ; suppose you've urgent need some things , 'coz you get unexpected visite , and you've got not enough things in your house for a decent reception ; stuff as meat , vegetables , cookies , orange juice , coffee , etc ....
What will you do incase all shops are closed ??
Greets from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), July 06, 2003.
I don't understand why everyone is so concerned with imposing a law on everyone else. If you believe that you shouldn't shop on Sunday, then don't. Does it say anywhere in God's word that we are supposed to force our law on non-believers? I haven't found it yet. Most of the emails on this sight sound an awful lot like what's going on in islam right now.If you are asked to work on Sunday, and your faith requires that you not work, then don't. Don't turn the world upside down just because you don't have the personal fortitude to keep your own laws. 100,000 Christians a year are murdered world-wide just for being Christians. Think about that the next time your asked to work on your Holy day.
Personally I keep the Seventh Day. When I started with a new employer a year ago, I told him that there was no way I could ever work on Sabbath. When our department was asked to work (several occasions)on Saturday, I told them that would be impossible, and that I would work on Sunday instead. It wasn't a problem.
You have to do what you have to do!!
-- Chuck Higgins (cobrahig@yahoo.com), July 19, 2003.
Chuck, you wrote:
"Does it say anywhere in God's word that we are supposed to force our law on non-believers?"Can you quote a Catholic on this thread saying that "non-believers" must obey the Catholic doctrine against unnecessary work on Sunday? In other words, which Catholic said that we ought "to force our law on non-believers?"
If you can't name one, then I think that you need to withdraw your criticism.God bless you.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 19, 2003.
J.F.,First of all the name of your web page is “Save our Sundays, a Sunday law is Coming”
On 7/01/03 – Craig wrote that “most retail activity should be banned on Sunday” On 7/01/03 GT said, “you should not have pro sporting events or anything else that people have to pay to attend either”. If he meant you should not attend sporting events on Sabbath, then I agree. On 7/01/03 – Eugene C. Chavez seems to be saying the same as I am, only from a Catholic perspective. On 7/01/03 – Tony wrote” We have a right to see stores closed one day a week with no traffic this should be a right to”. All I’m saying is, If you don’t want to shop, then don’t. Rod’s response on 7/01/03 shows that he seems to think the same as I do.
The underlying theme of almost every entry on this thread seems to be that Sunday should be enforced as a law on everyone, just so some won’t be inconvenienced in keeping his or her Sabbath. Since it was Jesus that said his followers would be persecuted even unto death, I don’t believe he would be too concerned with their mere inconvenience.
There is nothing in God’s Word about forcing his law as a law of the land. It was meant for his people as individuals, not for the secularist government. Jesus said that he would establish a new covenant where “I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts”.
After re-reading my original entry, I guess the islam thing sounded pretty bad, and I apologize. It wasn’t meant to sound so slanderous. But what I was getting at is, there are 26 major world wars going on right now. 22 are about muslims trying to force their beliefs on other religions (mostly Christians). They say that alla wants islam to be forced on everyone. This is the main reason why I know their god and our God are not the same even if they say he is. The God of Israel and Christianity wants us to love even our enemies.
To sum it all up, I still have to say that it’s up to the individual to enforce God’s law on himself.
Thank you, and God Bless Chuck
-- Chuck Higgins (cobrahig@yahoo.com), July 26, 2003.
Hi Chuck,I'm a she, by the way. My objection is that Tony's post seems to say that ONLY shopping is bad and should be made illegal, but implies that it is perfectly okay to make money hand over fist doing something else, like pro sport events, or concerts, or even paying to use our supposedly "free" national park system (and don't get me started on that). So, that is my issue, why is shopping singled out in this way?
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), July 26, 2003.
I've read through the responses and I have a couple of things to say, First I agree that shopping seems to be being attacked while pro sports and other things not so much. The 4th commandment states that you should not buy or sell. People are missing the whole point of this commandment. I read July 1st 2003 where Rod states "The law means nothing" I respectfully disagree. The law gives us a clear picture of who the Lord is. The bible says that the law is holy, just, true, pure, etc. It also says that the Lord is holy, just, true, pure, etc. You see the law tells us exactly who the Lord is. The first four commandments tell us how to love the Lord while the last six tell us how to love our fellow man. you cannot love someone you do not know, you cannot know someome you do not spend time with, and that is where this commandment comes in. It is about TIME- a special time that God himself set aside(because He knows us and loves us) and wants to spend time with US! What a God! You are also erroring on the day, God blessed and hallowed the Seventh Day. Not the first day. Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments" Revalation also states that Gods people will keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Jesus' custom was to keep the Sabbath and I think it is safe to follow Him, Don't you?
-- Wayne Townsend (waynendenise1999@yahoo.com), July 26, 2003.
"It sounds to me that your devil is bigger than your God.Ê God promises a blessing for those who keep His law and that includes the Sabbath. "I found this in my email. Hmm? It sounds to me that I am characterized as some kind of devil worshipper. Let me say that God is bigger than satan, so how can I ever consider the "devil" to be mine or even bigger than God?
So, please don't send me anymore emails unless you have something valuable for me.
I could post the email address, but let's see how things progress.
Rodrigo. .. . ..
p.s. Lit any "black candles" lately? .. .. ..
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 27, 2003.
I recieved an interesting email this morning. And abit threatning too. As you read in my previous comments I am the Lord's and He is my strenght and my fortress. My email to rod was a point to say thar in his response on july 2 states that we ought to hand our keys over to athiests, satanists, heathens and kiss our livilyhood goodbye. Implying that the Lord cannot bless you (even though He promises to) when we keep the Sabbath. Infact, we will be keeping the Sabbath in the new earth (heaven) and the bible calls the Sabbath a sign that we are the Lords. If we give him our love, Love is based on spending time with the Creator of the universe, when you think of that it is an honor that He even cares about our fallen humanity. But the bible says that we are the apple of His eye. He would come and save even if there was one person left on the face of the earth. That is a God that I serve and am honored to serve. I'm sorry if you (rod) took it the wrong way) I meant that God is infinatly more powerful than the devil. So just trust in him!
-- Wayne Townsend (wanddenise1999@yahoo.com), July 27, 2003.
Well, it was you, Wayne.Please be careful how you phrase things. The devil is not "mine".
My comments in this thread should be read carefully, as well. I do not intend to hand the keys over to anyone.
I thought that God was stronger than the devil, obviously, your belief needs some strengthening; "black candles" don't work, do they?
I should write a book with all of the strange emails I've received since joining this forum. I once believed that all Christians were God fearing people who lived by God's teachings. Well, some people do and some people think that they do. Some believe that God is a Her while others divide Him into a bunch of little gods. Some call me an atheist without attending church with me or listening to my daily prayers with God. They don't know me.
Rodrigo.
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 27, 2003.
rod,keep faith my friend, your growth in spirituallity since i first began reading your posts has been great.
along the lines of prior forum debates, including on keeping the sabath and on the concept of the transfiguration of the eucharist, your posts showed your clear growth in understanding of the true nature of belief and faith. keep your growth coming. Remember as well that there will always be those who falsely claim to be devout and will try to tear you down. there are wolves in sheeps clothing and this is yet another of satans ploys to destroy Gods church. keep growing in your faith and keep the teaching of God through the church and you will be okay.
best wishes
-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), July 27, 2003.
Hi paul.Great to hear from you. You've been away and it is good to see you again. Thanks for your supporting words. Your timing is pretty darn close to perfect.
rod... .. .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 27, 2003.
I am not in favor of saving our sundays. The reason is that God didnot intend for us to rest on sunday. He intended us to rest on His
Sabbath. Genesis 2:1-3 "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished
and all the host of them. and on the seventh day God ended his work
which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his
work which he had made. and God blessed the seventh day, and
sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work
which God created and made. In 108 languages around the world the
word for seventh day is Sabbath. Isaiah 66:22-23 "for as the new
heavens and the new earth which i will make shall remain before me
saith the Lord so shall your seed and your name remain. and it shall
come to pass that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath
to another, shall all flesh come to worship before the Lord.
The sabbath will be kept in the New Earth! Luke 6:5 "the son of man
is Lord also of the sabbath." There is no scriptural evidence that
the Sabbath was ever changed from Saturday to Sunday.
http://janus.centrin.net.id/~rdpnet/index-13-sundaynotbib.htm
The Catholic Church claims that she has the power to change times
and laws even the precepts of Christ. They also claim to be above
the Bible! Check the above address to check for yourself.
----------
If you want to delete the message, come to the administration page:
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-- Matt Boyd (hurler16@cox.net), September 15, 2003.
Matt B,
Please refresh my memory. Was your Adventistic denomination founded between 1800 and 1820 or between 1820 and 1840?My Church was founded by Jesus around the year 30. He gave my Church the power to observe the day of worship and rest on a day other than Saturday. By the way, we Catholics have an opening in the only true Church for you. You can even attend Mass on Saturday evening if it would make you feel more at home.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 15, 2003.
John, Where did Jesus give the "CHURCH" the power to rest and observe a day other than the seventh day? How do you know you are the true church? In the catholic Bible the 10 commandments do not read as they do in the King James bible? Why is that?
-- Margo Hobbs (mdnall@yahoo.com), September 26, 2003.
Jesus gave the Church full power to speak in His name when He told the leaders of the Church "Whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven". Where in the Bible does it say that Christians are expected to observe the tenets of the Mosaic Law? The Apostles didn't change the Sabbath. It is still on Saturday just as it always was, and it is still observed by the Jews, just as it always was. The Apostles didn't change anything. They established the Christian day of worship on the day of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and Christians have been worshipping on that day ever since. We know the Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus Christ because of history. There was NO Christian Church but the Holy Catholic Church from the time of Christ until the 11th century. Any differences that occur between the 17th century King James version and the original Bible compiled in the 4th century by the Catholic Church would have to be explained by the translators of the King James. However, since that version contains over 3,500 translation errors, it would take a lot of explaining.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 27, 2003.
Paul,What Christian Church was around in the eleventh century besides the only true Church?
I didn't think there was a protesant denomination around longer than 500 years ago.
Thanks
-- - (David@excite.com), September 27, 2003.
David, the entities now referred to as the Eastern Orthodox churches went into schism [breakaway due to rejection of authority] in the 11th century. Although the Eastern bishops and patriarchs wanted to adhere to all the articles of Catholic faith [which is why they are not called "protestants"], they no longer wanted to acknowledge the pope as the supreme pontiff of the universal Church, who had God-given power to impose discipline upon them.
God bless you.
John
-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 27, 2003.
We can thank God that there were always true Christians keeping the Sabbath of the Bible throughout the Dark Ages. Rome was never able to annihilate them all.For example, you had the Waldensians in northern Italy, said by their persecutors to be a very ancient people. The Albigensians were their brethren across the Alps in France, but they were annihilated in a series of crusades. Then there were the Ethiopian Christians lost to the world until after the Reformation began. There were also Christians in Armenia and India. None of these Sabbath-keeping groups were in union with Rome.
I think we should go back to keeping the day that Jesus and the apostles kept, and quit this Sunday stuff.
-- Bob Pickle (bob@pickle-publishing.com), April 12, 2004.
Don't try to thank God for a handful of heretical sects. They were not true, nor were they the Christians you think they were. Christ only founded one Church. This being the Church in whom Peter is the head Shepherd.The present-day successor to Peter is Pope John Paul II.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), April 12, 2004.
Someone mentioned that they used to have Blue Laws in Texas..well, we had them in New York too and I supposed lots of states had them.Sunday was a family day. We went to church, came home, had breakfast and an early 'family' dinner - aunts and uncles, cousins...it was a different time, different values. Families lived near each other, neighbors were neighbors...and Sunday Mass was a family time..we went to Mass together as a family.
The whole flavor of that time is gone now and I don't know if we can go back to it. I am not sure if closing the stores on Sunday is going to make a difference. I do not think non-churchgoers will start going to church and they are not going to spend the day praying or reading the Bible. Families are scattered all over the globe these days, so family time will never be the way it used to be...at least not for a lot of people.
I think the Pope has good intentions, but I don't know how closing stores on Sunday is going to change anything - although I love the idea!!
-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), April 12, 2004.
Closing stores on Sunday will help retail workers it will give them much needed time with there families. Laws can be changed the same way they were made. I will point out that the majority of people have been wrong before. Putting family in last place is wrong . We should value our families and put them first on the list. People will not die or go naked cause the stores are closed one day a week. SAY NO to Sunday shoppinghttp://www .petitiononline.com/sos2002A/petition.html
Say "NO" to Sunday Shopping
-- Tony (saynotosundayshopping@yahoo.com), April 12, 2004.
Closing stores on Sunday will help retail workers it will give them much needed time with there families.Well , some retail workers can make money on sunday , for some of them it's even their best day !! __ So let them decide for their own when they wanna close !! __ Also , if you wanna close shops on sundays , well , than you should close EVERYTHING , no work allowed on sunday in every profession , without ANY exception !!
J. F. Gecik wrote:
Can you quote a Catholic on this thread saying that "non-believers" must obey the Catholic doctrine against unnecessary work on Sunday? In other words, which Catholic said that we ought "to force our law on non-believers?" If you can't name one, then I think that you need to withdraw your criticism.
If this law really would come through , wouldn't that mean it hits everyone ?? __ Besides , what gives some people the right to force their intentions to others ??
In Other Words , I'm against to: Say "NO" to Sunday Shopping !!
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), April 13, 2004.
"Any differences that occur between the 17th century King James version and the original Bible compiled in the 4th century by the Catholic Church would have to be explained by the translators of the King James. However, since that version contains over 3,500 translation errors, it would take a lot of explaining. "Just a remark, the King Jmaes Bibel doesnt actually contain over 3500 translation errors.We cvered that on other threads. People seem to lvoe to attack the KJV, but even the website Paul showed that showed the "errors" didn't relaly show legitimate errors most fot he time. ( Most Bibles, inclusing the NAB used by Cahtolics, made the same "Mistakes", and the realityis that the KJV didn't err at all.)
Do not accept uncriticlaly attacks you hear agaisnt things, always look more in detail.
Now, my take.
Sunday laws woudl be nice, but nicer still woudl be a culture capale of maintianing reverence for one another and virtues.
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), April 13, 2004.