How to speak to Catholics, if you aren't one....

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Dear Bible Christian,

I decided to actually write you a nice letter instead of dismissing your statements. I'm sorry if my last response on the Catholic forum was rude. I've had a hard day. At any rate, I understand your wanting to help Catholics to be "saved". Being a born-again protestant convert to Catholicism, I speak "both languages", so to speak. :o) Here’s what might help you... You know how you wouldn't listen to a cult group quoting from the their scripture because you don't believe it is the Holy Scripture, or inspired from God, right? So when one of these types comes to your door and starts telling you about God and quoting their scriptures, you don't listen because you believe their scriptures to be false, right? Of course, I did the same thing as a protestant. Although, I would usually invite them in and then start witnessing to them from MY Bible.

Well, this didn't really work because neither of us believed in the other one's Bible. It's much harder to witness to someone when you are not only trying to tell them the truth that you have, but also to convince them that YOUR book is the right one. See, that's trying to solve two problems at once and makes for an uphill battle. So, what I used to do is quote right out of THEIR scripture, because they already believe in its authority. They can't refute their own book, so I started from there. Anyway, to a Catholic, their Bible is THE Bible. So, when a protestant comes along with different ideas, and sometimes uses demeaning language, and then starts quoting from their protestant Bible it just goes flat. Also, if you write, using the English from 1611 with the "ye" and "doeth" stuff, you give yourself away immediately, that you are quoting from the King James...again, they equate this on the level of polluted scripture. If you speak from your heart, ...no one can refute that because it's YOU. See? (I am going to speak in Bible Christian-ese, now.) Lastly, did you know that Catholics accept Jesus as their personal savior at every Mass? I bet you didn't know that. Yes, there are several parts during the Mass where a person admits they are a sinner and that Jesus died for their sins, that he rose from the dead and that they will follow Him as their Savior. This is said at EVERY Mass, all around the world, EVERY Sunday. Isn't that beautiful?

And you might say, "well they don't mean it", but think of this...if a person goes to Mass every Sunday for years, and prays the sinners prayer and commits their life to following Jesus...every Sunday...aren't the chances pretty good that they meant it at least ONE of those times? For many non-Catholic Christians, that’s all that’s needed…accepting Christ…just once. Therefore, most Catholics ARE born again. They just don't use that terminology...see, it's the same thing, just different words. So, I hope this helps you. Most of you seem to be really sold out for the Lord and I think that is a great thing. Use your power for good...to uplift the Body of Christ...to heal and transform. And if do it, using the other person's scripture (this works especially well with Muslims) with grace and humility, and the Holy Spirit's prompting in your heart...you will do well. God Bless You P.S. If I was already born-again, why did I convert to Catholicism? Because I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. If you want to know more, email me. (Remember, I said, "know more", and not "argue more"...OK?

Gail...you're a convert...get in on this...I need you. :0)

-- Victoria (Catholic Convert) (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 24, 2003

Answers

Just a few brief addenda to your very open and honest message, Victoria ..

For the individual Catholic, yes, every sunday he or she personally recommits to Jesus as Lord and Savior. But also, within the larger scope of Christ's Church, Jesus is being worshipped, glorified, and accepted not just once a week, but every second of every day of every year, century after century, as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is perpetually being celebrated somewhere on earth. This is the universality of the True Church.

Yes, being "born again" is generally associated with various Protestant sects who place particularly strong emphasis on this idea, or on their own version of the idea. But the idea itself, and the term, comes from a purely Catholic source - the New Testament. Catholics were born again for 1,500 years before anyone else even heard the term.

And finally, I don't really mind non-Catholic Christians quoting from "their" Bible. Their Bible may not be the most accurate translation, and it may be missing a few parts, but it is essentially our Bible, for there is no other. The main problem is not which translation they quote from, but rather the lack of any genuine authority behind the interpretations they place on the text. This problem remains whether they quote from the King James or from the Douay.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 24, 2003.


Fine post, Paul--
Victoria, I must say your letter to Bible Christians is marvelous. Don't know how every soul who is a Bible Christian will take it. But I see a lovely shining soul in it. That's how saints speak to each other, Victoria. With tones of happiness and acceptance. I have failed repeatedly to reproduce this tone. I'm awfully feisty. I pack a wallop; so some folks respect me, maybe. But many see me as some stupid fanatic. It's all my own fault. I could learn from souls like you. Who allow another soul extra space; ''--Go ahead. I won't bite you. I love all who love Jesus Christ.'' A hard act to follow!

Jesus Christ, My Adorable Saviour; Bless us and Your joyous convert Victoria; now in the Church of Your holy apostles; the place where Your Glory dwells, and Thank You, Dear Lord Amen!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 24, 2003.


Oh Victoria, how wonderful! Yes, scaling the language barrier is essential in relating to one another. And, like you, I speak both languages as well.

One point I'd like to make is that every denomination or non- denominational church can (and does) raise generations of "dead Christians." Protestants see 'dead men walking' in the Catholic faith and say, "see, it's a dead religion." And they think it's our teaching, but what they don't realize is that when the newness and excitement of any "new" church settles and generations of kids, grandkids, etc. begin to be seen, you can see staleness set in there too! 'Dead men walking' in the Catholic faith should not be used as a litmus test of authenticity. If their churches were around for 2,000 years it would be interesting to see what kind of shape they'd be in!

I say all that to say this, Catholicism with zeal is the MOST, the BEST, the RICHEST, the most EXCITING!! I would like my Protestant bros and sisses to HEAR THAT! It's supernatural, it's divine, it's the Lord's House. He is the builder of this exciting place we call Home!

I wish I had more time, but I have to run to work. I'll come back this evening and see what's up.

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), June 25, 2003.


To Paul:

Thank you for your wise clarifications. I always enjoy reading them. You're the best! I completely agree with everything you said...as I usually do. :0)

To Eugene:

I love your spunk and wisdom on these posts...you are who you are and I like you for that. St. John the Baptist wasn't "touchy feely" either. You keep it up, Eugene! Love it!!

To Gail:

My other convert buddy. Thank you so much for your input. I often see a balance in your posts of wisdom and kindness...it's really awesome! I also appreciate that you speak both languages as I do and can help to bridge the gap. You are so special.

I've been learning so much from this forum and I just want to say thanks to all of you. (John G. too...even though he's not on this thread.)

-- Victoria (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 26, 2003.


Proverbs 7 11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house: 12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.) 13 So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him, 14 I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows. 15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee. 16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt. 17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. 18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves. 19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: 20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed. 21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. 22 He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks; 23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life. 24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. 25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. 26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. 27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death. They who walk contrary to Gods word who shall be decieve by her ways"traditions" and the women and men thereof. For she is smooth but she truly is as Judas.

-- convertedbyJesus (truthisfreedon316@yahoo.com), June 26, 2003.


Poor fanatic.
All on fire with his own fearless Bible worship. This is what eventually must happen to a good man who falls in love with reading a Bible. The Bible becomes wine. It makes him drunk with power. Power over the human race!

Because these fanatics have a Bible, they believe the world owes them a living. They are faultless! Then it becomes their mission to preach out of Bible passages; whatever the devil inspires them to preach. --Would the devil use the Word of God for his personal footstool? Read about it. The gospel of Saint Luke, chapter 4.

Alex works for the devil, against the holy apostles and the Church of Jesus Christ. We must pray for him to escape his darkness.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 27, 2003.


Dear Victoria: first of all let me congratulate you on your name. To me it is a reminder of Christ conquering death and sin on the Cross and by His Resurrection, as well as sign fo our hope of our own final victory when the Lord comes again in a visible form to take us all to His Glory.

Have you ever had the unplesant experience of arriving someplace after a long journey and not finding a room at the hotel? It has happened to me and my family quite a few times, and let me tell you it is really unpleasant and frustrating. But how different things go after a long journey looking for the truth. The Lord finally leads you to His Church where the DOOR IS ALWAYS OPEN and it is always room for everyone....!!

Welcome home, Victoria.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), June 27, 2003.


Alex, Alex, Alex...

I read your post where you quoted Solomon in Proverbs, referring to the prostitute. Thanks.

Also, one confusing point...you said

>>>For she is smooth but she truly is as Judas.<<<

How could Solomon know about Judas? That's not in the Bible, Alex and (according to you) we can only go by what's in the Bible, right? Where, in Scripture, did Jesus call someone a prostitute that he disagreed with...or was that comment just a personal revelation to you by the Holy Spirit?

Since you were kind enough to post a quote from Scripture, here's one for you from Galatians (KJV, of course)

>>>>>For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.<<<<<<<

I have not ever seen any evidence of the fruits of the Spirit in your life Alex, because I can only go by your posts...and they don't give any evidence of the Holy Spirit in your life at all. Perhaps you only show His gifts in person? I'll have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

One thing I have to admit though, your "cutting and pasting" skills ARE excellent.

-- Victoria (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 27, 2003.


Victoria Hello and God Bless.

That was a pleasant letter you wrote and I understand what you mean. I started off on the wrong foot in this forum. I have good intensions but I have a lot to learn my self. Sometimes the way I try to get my point, will come out the wrong way. I don't try to bash anybody. But I noticed once you leave a bad taste is someone's mouth, then that's it! People lose all respect and start abusing you. This is what I can't understand. We are suppose to represent Christ and strengthen one another, not rip them apart!

I also like to quote from the Bible a lot because this is the voice of God. We can't go wrong if we search the scriptures and study them. Maybe I write too much, but I am spiritually hungry and I put my trust in the Bible, "the WORD" became flesh" Christ. If one is saved then the Spirit dwells in them. And who says God can't guide and teach that individual? Sometimes I bring out certain scriptures I come accross and would like to understand them in the light of one's teaching.

Wouldn't you agree that if a body (church) is being lead by the Spirit, should be able to understand a specific verse or verses or at least try not to ignore them? Well I try to be hummble and respectfull but I know I am not perfect. I must go to Christ everyday for forgiveness, wisdom and strength. Peace to all, you to Eugene !!!!

-- Christian Soldier (Embasador333@yahoo.com), June 29, 2003.


Hi Christian Soldier, God Bless you. You said if we study scripture we can't go wrong, but my friend that is simply not true. I know that is the foundation of Protestantism, but I am afraid the divisions are indications that "something is terribly wrong." The Holy Spirit does not teach one group one thing and then another group something else! That brings CHAOS to the body of Christ. God is not the author of confusion!

Once upon a time when I was Protestant not too long ago, I opened the phone book and began to look for the right church for me. I was in tears at the choices, and literally wept that I could nullify each denomination due to my inability to believe their "distinctive doctrine," and the fact that many mainline denominations have "left the faith" and embraced humanism. Presbyterians, Methodists embracing abortion, Episcopalians now ordaining homosexuals. Word of Faith teaching "we are equal with God." It was TOO MUCH FOR ME!

I thought "I am going to find the MOST orthodox church I can find, the Ancient Church" but what would THAT be? Somehow during that time, I stumbled across the Fathers of the Church; the writings of Augustine, Clement, Ignatius, (they're all available online) and as I was reading I thought "Oh my gosh, these people are Catholics!!!" I am finding writings on purgatory, the Eucharist, salvation by faith AND works, MARY. "What is going on here!" I thought

The biggest shocker was SOLA SCRIPTURA; which is NOT a new concept. The Church Fathers COMPLETELY viewed sola scriptura a heresy! That left me dumbfounded! How could this be? The doctrine that has been browbeat into us Protestants is a HERESY according to our ancestors in the faith! So my journey began.

I should add that the question that led me into all of this was "How come Catholics have 7 more books in their Bibles?" The answer startled me: Protestants REMOVED them! I had always been told that Catholics added them -- but alas such IS NOT the case! It took me six months to get the answer to that one. Not one Protestant pastor I asked knew the answer. Why? They aren't taught the truth either.

I found out many things that weren't true about the Catholic faith that had I firmly believed, which were based upon erroneous information put out by Catholic bashers, or those simply ignorant of the facts.

So, here I am. Funny thing is that all the time I was a Protestant, God NEVER allowed me to be part of a worship team which I KNEW was my calling. I am a singer/musician, but somehow door after door slammed in my face. It was UNCANNY! I remember thinking "it's no wonder my nose isn't flat with all the doors slammed in my face." BUT it was GOD.

He gave me a scripture during that time; Psalm 137 "By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down and wept, when we remembered Zion. Upon the willows in the midst of it we hung our harps. For there our captors demanded of us songs, and our tormentors mirth saying, "Sing us one of the songs of Zion." HOW CAN WE SING THE LORD'S SONG IN A FOREIGN LAND." I knew what He was telling me, that I would not sing in any house other than my own.

I have been in the Catholic Church for a little over a year. God is using me, finally, AND IT IS AWESOME! The music is INCREDIBLE. (Catholic music is the absolute BEST). (We sang that Psalm just several months ago as part of our responsorial song. I could hardly contain myself!)

I will also tell you that I began my journey in search of TRUTH. I begged God for truth, and boy did He pour it on, fast and furious. Supernatural sign posts EVERYWHERE I turned. I would be listening to the radio, having a question in my mind about a Catholic doctrine, and on would come a Protestant preacher preaching on the subject. Then I would go check the answer in the Catechism or in history, and find THEY WERE WRONG! This happened so many times I cannot count them.

God Bless, and great thread!

Gail



-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), June 29, 2003.



Gail what a breath of fresh air and an encourager you are!!!

Your testimony is powerful indeed! I love hearing all the variety of ways God uses to move us and turn us to Himself. Theresa

-- Theresa Huether (RodnTee4Jesus@aol.com), June 29, 2003.


Answering Christian Soldier:

You have said above: ''Sometimes the way I try to get my point will come out the wrong way. I don't try to bash anybody. But I noticed once you leave a bad taste is someone's mouth, then that's it! People lose all respect and start abusing you. This is what I can't understand. We are suppose to represent Christ and strengthen one another, not rip them apart !''

You have no basis for saying anybody abuses you. No one here is in the abuse racket, CS.

You feel put out because we've told you you're in error. Error about all the significance of a Bible. It surely is NOT the sole rule of a Christian's faith. Error in some of the easiest Bible verses to interpret; and you've no excuse. Error in believing you can ''represent Christ'' to us. What you represent is the heretical men who abandoned the Church of Jesus Christ. You represent their erroneous teachings, and ignore the truth taught in the Catholic faith of your fathers. Error in believing there are ''two churches,'' with the ''real'' Church INVISIBLE.

These are all grave errors, and you come here to ''teach'' them. --No wonder others answer you boldly. You have missed the meaning of Christ's Gospel! Then-- when faithful Chrisitans dispute your false notions, about the Bible, about the Church, about YOUR pretensions, --You think you're being ''abused''.

You have to be rejected when you preach falsehood. But that doesn't mean we hate you. It isn't meant to hurt you; it's for the love of truth, and to bring you OUT of error.

This Catholic forum offers you all the truth, CS. We want to liberate you from false doctrine. Not hurt you. In your daily pursuits I'm sure you're a wonderful young man. I definitely believe God LOVES you. I believe God brings you into our midst to SAVE you. To literally make your salvation HIS OWN work. Not the work of MEN. You've fallen into the snares of men; unfaithful men. We can PROVE it to you, Soldier. We're not lying.

You've come to just the right place; and God>/U> is Who brought you. Be truly humble and pray for light. He will show you where He expects you to worship Him. Not alone, reading a Book, a Bible you haven't the key to. He wishes for you to serve Him in JOY, with His Church, His Communion of Saints.

Your Church is the Catholic Church, who has the power of the Spirit and is founded not by a simple mortal man. She's given to the world by Jesus Christ! If you love Him, you aren't going to reject His Church, are you?

Sure, we have the duty to respect you, and love you. But not all your errors.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 29, 2003.


Eugene

I appreciate what you are telling me but you have to be in my shoes to believe it! I know the Spirit is guiding me to all truth in the Bible. Let me give you an analogy.

Have you ever seen one of those art pictures where there is a hidden holagram? You have to put the picture against your face and slowly pull it away. As your eyes start to focus, you will see a hidden picture. Some peoplle find it hard to see and some very easily capture the picture.

How about one of those coloring books with hidden pictures embedded into a drawing. As you scan the picture you start finding smaller pictures within the main picture.

Well when I read the Bible, this is what happens to me. As I compare scripture with scripture, God paints a picture. Put it this way every verse in the Bible has a hidden salvation message or tells us something about Christ. Some verses God will easily reveal it and some are very difficult. The more you humble yourself and pray for wisdom God will allow you to understand even the most difficult scriptures. You don't understand, I am in awe!

When God saves you, His spirit dwells in you. And He gives you eyes to see and ears to hear. Why do you think I am still in this forum? I pray that their may be some Elects in here. My job is to share what God shows me through the Bible, and it is God who applies this truth to the heart of anybody who is God's Elect. God will begin to draw them. We give God all the Glory for saving someone. Not in a million years would I take any bit of credit for this gift that God has given me.

The only way you can understand what I am going through, is to be in my shoes. I can not pinpoint the exact moment this happened to me, but God has given me ample evidence, and this incredible peace that doesn't go away. Even if the roof was falling off on my head!

God Bless

-- C.S (Embasador333@yahoo.com), July 02, 2003.


"I know the Spirit is guiding me to all truth in the Bible"

A: That is exactly what each and every denomination is saying right back to you - yet their beliefs conflict with yours! Can you honestly say that the Holy Spirit is guiding YOU to all truth, while every one of the thousands of Protestant groups who disagree with you are NOT hearing the Holy Spirit?? What gives YOU that priority over them? But again, each of them claims the same priority over you, and just ignores the whole chaotic mess that they are one small fragment of - just as you do. That's the only way to survive in Protestantism.

"Well when I read the Bible, this is what happens to me. As I compare scripture with scripture, God paints a picture"

A: No. Your mind paints a picture - usually a picture of what you want to believe. If God was painting the picture, the SAME picture would appear for each person who uses your approach. God surely would not generate conflicting pictures for different people. But human minds can easily do so.

"When God saves you, His spirit dwells in you. And He gives you eyes to see and ears to hear"

A: Indeed He does! The teachings of His Holy Church come alive, as the fullness of truth permeates your very being, and the scriptures, given to us through the Church confirm and fortify His infallible Word! I hope and pray you are able reach this point in your spiritual growth some day. What awaits you is beyond description. Watered down, partial truth will be but a vague memory as you are drawn into the ocean of holiness and truth that is His Church alone!

God Bless

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 02, 2003.


Paul

In a sense you are right. Many people claim to have truth. Well guess what? Satan is always trying his best to disrupt God's salvation program. That is why God tells us to test every Spirit! I will not judge anybody but if one claims to have truth then we test what He says with the BIBLE, GOD's Words! The reason why it is a big free for all for the churches, is because they all believe they are the pillar and ground of truth. They failed God's biggest test just like ancient Isreal did and He destroyed them. In the Book of Revelations God likens the end time churches as a "Harlot". When the churches teach falsely, they are in spiritual adultry! Then again I can't convince anybody. Test what I say with the Bible.

If I pointed out some scripture that flat out contradicts to what the churches teach, will you continue to follow that doctrine? If you said yes, then why do you need God or the Bible? Just throw away your Bible and continue listening to the church, YOUR GOD!

About what you said about the "picture", of course the only people who will see the same "picture" are God's elect whom He predestinated to save. When God gives them a new resurrected soul they will see the same picture. Every born again believer is a new person! You do not know this because you are still under bondage.

I only say these things because I Love you guys and if we do not leave the churches God will harden your hearts and put a great deception on you. God's harvest is taking place as we speak, if any true believers (the Elect) are still in the churches, He will get them out. They are the Wheat. And the tares which are the "wood, hay, and stubble" , will remain in the churches to be burned up with all the false prophets who are doing lying signs and wonders.

Look at all the supernatural activities going on in the churches today. This is a red flag for the true believers! GET OUT and stand on the House top proclaiming the Word, and do not go back in!!!

God Bless

-- Christian Soldier (Embasador333@yahoo.com), July 03, 2003.



Dear Christian Soldier,

Perhaps God put you in this forum to find the Truth that exists in the Catholic faith. I pray for your conversion!!

With regards to people seeing the same picture, I point to Jim Jones, or David Koresh. All of their followers saw the same picture too. The congregations in all the Protestant churches see the same picture or they wouldn't be in their respective churches. The same is true of the Catholic faith as well.

So, the question then becomes, who's right?

No, I have not walked in your shoes, but I have experienced the peace you have. I have experienced the joy of having God in my heart and in control of my life. As I have posted elsewhere, I put my faith and Trust in God in all aspects of my life. And He has never led me astray of the Catholic faith. In fact, He has led me deeper into the faith in order that I may be closer to him. To do this, He has not only used Scripture, but also the traditions of the Church, the intercessions of Mary and the Saints, and the writings of the Saints. He has brought people into my life just when I needed them. He brought my wife and I together in the most improbable way, but yet it may have been the only way it could have happened. He has led me down paths I never thought I would take, and into situations where I never could understand why I was there at the time. But I left it all in the Hands of God, and he in His own Way brought me to understanding.

Those of us devout to our Catholic faith are indeed saved, and we are indeed born again in one Body, the Body of Christ.

Pax et Bonum.

-- Thomas (tcdzomba@excite.com), July 03, 2003.


Dearest Christian Soldier,

(Sorry, the author in me made this too long, but oh well.)

I appreciate your heart-felt thoughts and thank you for sharing them with us. Your posts are non-threatening and well thought out...congratulations! (Especially if you ARE Alex...it's a miracle!!)

I too, often feel inspired when reading the Bible and understand things that either I missed before, or just see in a new light. However, since I have only been alive for forty years, I don't really trust my intellect or experience in these matters. It could be from the Holy Spirit...OR...it could just be my own imaginings. I don't trust myself to decide such an extremely important matter. So, I do research on whatever tidbit I've "discovered". (No, I don't just run to the Church directly, as you might think. Actually...being a scholar...I like to do research with books authored by reputable theologians, etc.)

But, what is a reputable theologian? I used to think it was someone with a PhD. Sounds good, huh? However, even as a former Protestant, I started to have problems with this when I would read authors with PhD's from certain denominations' Christian colleges. They were really just giving each other degrees in what they already agreed with...within their circle. That's not necessarily an education in truth...it might be, but maybe not.

This question of real, authenticated truth bothered me very much as a Protestant. I felt as if all of the denominations were giving me the "run around". So, I went looking for the truth. Not what I imagined to be the truth, nor what I wanted it to be, but the REAL truth. But how does one know what real truth is, when everyone claims to have “found” it?

Here’s what I know: Truth does not depend on the person who speaks it. Water is wet. Whether a saint or a murder says that phrase, does not matter...it's the truth...water IS wet. Truth does not care about how we feel about it...whether we like it or hate it. A wife might find out her husband is cheating on her. She does not like this, but it is the truth. Sometimes the truth wounds us, makes us writhe, and takes us way out of our comfort zone. That's because truth exists outside of humanity. We can't invent it, we can't change it...truth just IS, whether we like it or not.

Truth is like a white paint chip that you get from the local hardware store. When you move into a house, you may believe your walls are white. They look white...you accept them as white...maybe all of your friends say that they're white...but then, you bring home a pure white paint chip from the store and hold it up against your "white" wall. What happens? You find out your wall isn't really white after all. Sometimes, it's even disgusting how un-white the walls actually are...how dirty they've become.

BUT, how do we know what color is really white...isn't it subjective? Can't an expert painter determine what "white" is by looking at it? No!! Pure white is a certain degree of light, with an actual temperature. (My friend has a degree in art and told me this.) There's actually a formula for the exactness of pure white. It's not debatable. It just is.

So, my question back to CS--or anyone else is: where does one get the pure white paint chip that can be used to measure all other colors of "white" against it? In other words, how does one know if the "truth" they're used to seeing, is really TRUTH...and not just "truth"? Don’t say “the Bible” too quickly. Yes, the Bible is TRUTH, but someone’s INTERPRETATION of it is not necessarily truth. That’s the rub, folks. The Bible is pure truth, but we…in our weakness and error, cannot pull truth out of it by ourselves.

Would you feel confident in having a layperson perform surgery on you by merely looking at a textbook and figuring out what to do? Isn’t the textbook true? Sure, but the layperson has had no experience in surgery and does not know what to do…even when using the textbook as a guide. That’s why there’s years of training and residency to be a Surgeon. We can’t do brain surgery by ourselves, just by reading a book. We can’t follow Christ the way He wishes by ourselves, either.

Ask yourself…who told you the “color” you’re looking at is “white”? Are they reputable, do they know the truth, are they an expert in these matters, have they studied and have they had experience, and most importantly--where do they get their authority? (Surgeons have to get a license.) Measure and test…search and prove. Don’t just take someone’s word for it...especially your own.

-- Victoria (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), July 05, 2003.


Victoria: AWESOME POST! Hope he reads it.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 05, 2003.


Dear Christian Soldier, It's great to see that you want to take an active roll in understanding the Bible and the Gospel Message it contains. However, as several other posters have pointed out, why would you want to trust such an important matter to a human intelect? It is very easy to missunderstand scripture, in fact Satan can and does use scripture to attack the souls of men. Just look at Mark 4.6 Without a proper guide to help prevent errors, simply reading scripture and trying to understand it can lead to heresy and division. Just look at the disputes between different Protestant sects over the SAME Scriptures interperated by different HUMANS. Christ promised that he would build his Church upon Peter and that the gates of hell would not prevail against it(Matt 16:18-19). If hell will not prevail against the True Church, then surely there must be a Church that has existed since the time of Christ which has a Divine Assurance against the trickery of Satan. My walk of faith has lead me to that Church, the Holy Catholic Church. I pray your desire for truth will lead you to the same infallible source of truth that I have found.

-- Joe (Jhaydu@stevens.edu), April 16, 2004.

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