He who is without sin cast the first stone and one by one they left to their homes. These are they who danced around the calf building a religion of deciet, worshipping the created thing instead of the creator. As when Moses came down of the mountin and the anger of Lord arose so shall this calf be broken to dust. As Moses said if you be for God stand here (within the word of God} if not then you shall find yourself shut out forever in the bondage of traditions, being tormented for all of eternity. Call on Jesus and leave the calf, and worship the creator in spirit and in truth.

-- Alexsesavedbygrace (Truthisfreedom316@yahoo.com), June 21, 2003

Answers

Alex,

We Catholics are saved by Grace too. We just follow the traditions that Jesus and his early Church set up. We worship God only and take his commandments to heart. He is our Father and we do our best to love and obey him. Please don't critcize us when you don't know what is in our hearts.

Sharon

-- Sharon (delipasta@hotmail.com), June 21, 2003.

1. Catholics worship God alone.

2. 2 Thessalonians 2:14-15 :: King James Version (KJV) 14   Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

-- Phil (ironchefphil@yahoo.com), June 21, 2003.

Works and grace are not opposed to each other, any more than faith and grace are. The Teaching of the Church, both as recorded in the Bible and as provided through Sacred Tradition, makes it clear that both works and faith are necessary responses to grace, without which one cannot expect to receive salvation. Since grace makes possible both the required faith and the required works, salvation is indeed by grace alone. But it is clearly NOT by faith alone ...

"What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14)

"But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" (James 2:20)

"Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not DO these things for one another, you did not DO them for Me.' These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:45-46)

And, it is NOT by works alone ...

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you'" (Matthew 7:22-23)

So, nothing could be clearer from the plain text of scripture than the fact that salvation requires both faith and works - both believing, AND living as though we believe. This has been the teaching of the Christian Church from the beginning, and will be until the end of time. Anything less is, at best, partial truth. Jesus said it was THE TRUTH which would set us free, not mere bits and pieces of it. That's why He said the Holy Spirit would guide HIS Church to ALL truth. Nothing less will do.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 22, 2003.

Thy use of the written word is without justificatin, works the Almight God is speaking is not the traiditions you are presumptuosly declaring they are. For you are Gods workman created in Christ Jesus "created in Christ Jesus" unto good"fruitful" not idol worship. A servant of the Lord is fruitful in they are "born again" to serve the LOrd being sanctified, justified, by faith. You also forgot the many scriptures that declare justification by faith. WHy is that? How is that you know about 5 sciptures referring to works and traditions yet fail to witness as to the many scriptures regarding faith justifying the sinner? One must question your scheme and the motive behind it?

-- ALexsavedbyJesus (truthsisfreeom316@yahoo.com), June 23, 2003.

I love the Catholic Church. Her Tradition is just as holy as the Word of God; because the apostles learned FROM God, the Son. Is Sacred Tradition equal to the Word of God? As the Tradition of Christ, it must be. As truth, it truly is.

God loves truth, because He is the Truth. Tradition coming down from the apostles is learned the same way the Gospel was learned. The Holy Spirit guards the Church's Tradition.

Only the ones who have rejected Christ's own Church reject his Church's Tradition. The same ones who spread false doctrine have a dislike for Sacred Tradition. What is false always fights against all that is True. Tradition in the Holy Catholic Church is TRUE. --Eat your heart out, Alex!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 23, 2003.

Alex,

To answer your question, "Why hold onto works if Grace saves you?" I hold onto works, because I cooperate with God. He is our Father, and I do what my Father wants. Otherwise, I would just believe and be disobedient. I would ignore most of the 10 commandments and not love my neighbor as myself. I would put myself first, I would steal, cheat and lie, because that is what I would really want to do, but it would not please God. I as most people have a sinful nature, but I do my best to be good and obey him.

---Also, if you think about it faith is a works--it sounds to me like you belive that faith in necessary for the Grace. What about a baby or mentally challenged person who is unable to have faith through no fault of their own.

---And, isn't it obvious to you that the people responding to you truely love God. I think that you have to accept that they find their relationship to God just as loving as yours, but they do it in a way that helps themselves feel closer. Speaking for myself, if I left the Catholic Church, my relationship with God would definitely become impaired. I think that I can be a better Christian and have a better relationship with God in the Catholic Church than anywhere else, and I have read, visited, and went to services in other churches to know this.

As Christian as you,

Sharon

-- Sharon (delipastas@hotmail.com), June 23, 2003.

Alex is just a little bit farther outside the Church, than the Neo Catholics are. Difference" Alex admits it!The Neo's still believe that they are good Catholics.

Well they are if you just count the past forty years.

-- Carlos DeAngelo (Carlos@appleandeve.com), June 23, 2003.

Neo Catholic??? I will cross the street, if I see one coming, Carlos. I'm in the traditional faith of the apostles. Christ's Holy Catholic Church. I'll tell you why.

Our Holy Father is the only shepherd of the faithful duly ordained by Christ. I'm not making this up. Pope John Paul II leads me; I do not follow false prophets. I'm a lamb. He's Jesus Christ's Shepherd; his authority is from Jesus.

You are sheep gone wild in the wilderness of human pride and elitism. You aren't receiveing Holy Communion, are you Carlos?

If so, confess your hatred for us. Tell a priest how you come here to poison the well of Catholic faith. How you incite disrespect and opposition to the Pope. You have to confess the sin of disobedience. I'm sorry; there it is, Charley-- And, confess you're a Pharisee, a hypocrite. Don't go to communion with these sins on your conscience, My Friend.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 23, 2003.

Is the arm of the Lord to short that he cannot save, but it is they who reject his arm, excepting the father of tradition "the devil" For there is none righteous no one, try to be good? There is none good but God. Jesus Healed the lame the crippled and the blind. The following statement is made by one not percieving the power of God who said none shall be lost who seek Him, God knows who His children are, and they are in His word fleeing the cloak bodage- traditions. Here is the statement:(Also, if you think about it faith is a works--it sounds to me like you belive that faith in necessary for the Grace. What about a baby or mentally challenged person who is unable to have faith through no fault of their own) faith is a matter of the spiritual understanding not of physical condition, grace is granted to the pure in heart;baby and the repenant sinners. Rend your hearts and be healed in Jesus name> Carlos a servant of God would not crush you but edify you unto the Lords word. Be encouraged and do not get caught up in vain jangling, may GOD grant thee insight in the spirit of thy mind.

-- Faithworkstosavethysoul (truthisfreedom316@yahoo.com), June 24, 2003.

You judge whether I am receiving communion? I ask whether it is you who is receiving communion. Maybe yes, probably no. Doubtful consecrations, doubtful ordinations,. Doubtful everything. I stand on what I say. You think that you are Catholic, and you are happy.

-- Carlos DeAngelo (Carlos@appleandeve.com), June 24, 2003.

Carlos, Sir:
Did I come into your home and cast aspersions at anybody? No; you chose to enter here and castigate everybody and defame the Holy Catholic Church.

You have committed grave sins here. We never went to you with calumnies. Our hearts are honestly given to God through His Holy Church. Your heart lives in a diabolical fury against Catholics who follow the Vicar of Christ on earth. If it pleases you to abandon the Church, we can't stop you. If you hate us for being loyal, then stay away from us. I simply give you wise counsel. Take it or leave it: Go to confession before you return to Holy Communion. You are offending to your brethren from obstinate pride. Confess it!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 24, 2003.

Hey, truthisfreedom 316:

Where are you getting all of these Scripture verses from? hee hee

-- Victoria (Catholic Convert) (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 24, 2003.

Alex: was Christ's humanity "created"? Can His humanity be worshipped?

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), June 25, 2003.

One wonders when these bible thumpers will come to the realization that THE SCRIPTURE IS TRADITION AND CAME FROM TRADITION. What a stiff-necked lot!

Christ did not have a stenographer on staff guys!

Karl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), June 25, 2003.

Saint Paul, in his epistle to:

THE ROMANS

Hold it! Romans is the evil ones! --??? Aren't they?

Chapter 1, verse :8 ''First I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed all over the world.''

Faith? Christian Romans??? Whuzz going on here?

The Bible, Mister.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 28, 2003.

Romans, but not Italics.

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 29, 2003.