Advisory counsel on sexual abuse

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My fear is that some bishops still take the stance that:

"I'm in charge of my diocese, what I say goes!"

What should the laity do?

God Bless

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), June 20, 2003

Answers

Keep your hands in your pockets when the collection basket reaches you.

-- Willie (Will@hotmail.com), June 20, 2003.

You both ought to be ashamed. Most of all the money- conscious squirt.

John; what do you mean (?) by ''Takes the stance,'' A bishop DOES have authority from God, and his diocese is in fact HIS jurisdiction, a responsibility. It all begins in his vocation. God has truly called him.

If we suppose that in some way the bishop is derelict in his duty, it's just too bad. Pray for him. We are under the strict obligation to obey the teaching and correction of our bishop. Not just if we approve; always.

In the event we cannot follow him in good conscience, this is something to discuss with your confessor. When the occasion is that serious that we must protest, we ought to have the courage to personally confront our bishop. In the most respectful manner. But we owe him every respect. He acts for us in the place of God. You did not get in your own father's face did you? Not even when you couldn't agree with him. Your duty was to suffer quietly. Becaues you were the son.

It's just that way for the faithful, regarding their pastor & their bishop. He has the authority. PERIOD.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 21, 2003.


Hi John dont be discouraged! Be not afraid! I dont really know exactly what youre asking to but I believe that the expression of faith as a minimal and legalistic one, is the very reason why the sex scandal occured in the first place.

The Vatican II constitution would be ideal starters for those who offer such oudated views on the role of the laity. Christianity and idea of sacrifice and service is nothing like the unquestioning unthinking blind authority given above. It is the mindset of the desperate and dispairing, the negative and the fearful, the closed minded and dear I say it... the elderly, who have misinterpreted grace and cease to act.

If we examine the WHOLE of Church tradtition, especially the early church we find the true meaning of Christian service, a loving positive service, a call to action, TRUE christian responsibilty. We must lay our lives down with HOPE, and try and share this HOPE. Hope is an incentive to action not passivity.

For those with little time left on this earth its not safe to move from a security orientated doctrinial framework. Risks of any kind dont make sense to those raised pre Vatican II today. Backed by a theological transformation of the gospel to support this mindeset, that has existed for centuries before Vatican II its a warm and comfortable place to stay. It is far safer not to do anything but "pay pray and obey".

Keep searching for the truth John, I greatly enjoy reading your posts.

God Bless

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 21, 2003.


Kiwi,
I see your drift; the ''security blanket'' of not resisting; or condoning the offenses of a particular priest.

Mr. Placette posed one scenario: ''My fear is that some bishops still take the stance that:
I'm in charge of my diocese.''

That's the one I addressed. It wasn't intended to say bishops never do wrong. Yes, they do. Not very often I maintain. But Mr. P is troubled with the false notion bishops do not have real authority. --He's wrong. You're wrong.

For we who have ''little time left on earth'' to concede what we KNOW is valid authority cannot be outdated. Because, if it were, it would have been so a thousand years now.

God did not call the laity to burden the apostles & their successors with lawsuits or withholding support of their Church. You might not realise, what the 2nd man said, withhold funding; is a sin.

Every diocese is God's spiritual field of activity; blessing immortal souls like yours & mine. We are pledged, beholden to that holy work, and the upkeep of the churches and pastors.

If, as a way of protesting one bad priest's waywardness we cut off support, we harm the people of the Church. We discriminate against our many holy, trustworthy priests. They depend on me & you. Forget the bishop's indifference (if it's that bad) and think of God, and what he expects of you. One day judgment will fall upon you. Were you a faithful steward? Or was your willful hatred for one priest that devilish you failed all the Church in charity?

Get your head on straight, Kiwi. Youth is no substitute for spiritual vitality. For some, their vaunted youthful awareness makes them unworthy of God's love. Worry about His grace in you, not your advanced learning.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 21, 2003.


You may ''question'' your own father; but it's disrespectful. You may not cut off support to the Church. We operate on faith. It's hard for some to face it; Jesus demanded faith. The heathens and the oppressors of the apostles and saints had no faith.

You are exactly like the Israelites after Moses brought them out of Egypt. Squawking, crying, rebellious. No faith in God.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 21, 2003.



I see where youre coming from Gene, I guess my post was rather disrespectful to you but it was directed generally at a mindset that still exists, though its not fair of me, nor accurate to lump you into such a generalisation. yes a bit of faith wouldnt hurt me at all.

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), June 21, 2003.

Bp. Wilton Gregory, President of the U.S. Novus Ordo Bishops First He Wrecked the Sacred Liturgy Now He Appeals to Us to Wreck Catholic Morals? The U.S. Novus Ordo Bishops, meeting June 19-22 in St. Louis, mostly in secret, tried desperately to "spin" the events of the last week to deny the reality: Novus Ordo Church officials from the pope on down are still denying the thorough-going corruption in the Novus Ordo hierarchy. The poster boy for that hierarchy last week was the now former Phoenix bishop who admitted to pimping for sex offenders in his diocese and later killed a man with his car without even stopping to give Last Rites or reporting the incident to police. He is now under felony indictment.

During the whole incident the pope remained as silent as a tomb. He didn't even wring his hands as he has been more than ready to do for the cause of historical and oecumenical matters. Where is he? Oh, he's in Bosnia, having just been to Croatia. Does anyone else get the idea that the pope escapes from Rome as frequently as possible to avoid dealing with the real problems that he is responsible for. He would rather go to foreign countries where he can be hailed as a god and forget his own responsibilities.

The one voice that made sense this week came from a former FBI agent and Associate U.S. Attorney General, who had been appointed by the bishops to supervise the clean-up of the corruption within the dioceses. Many of the bishops refused to cooperate, indicating that they were more interested in a P.R. clean-up than a real clean-up of their personal and subordinates' morality.

There was an element in what Gov. Keating said that his been totally missed by both the religious and secular press. Here again is what he said:

To resist grand jury subpoenas, to suppress the names of offending clerics, to deny, to obfuscate, to explain away; that is the model of a criminal organization, not my Church. Gov. Keating

-- Carlos DeAngelo (Carlos@appleandeve.com), June 21, 2003.


I'm going to crawfish a little here.

I applaud the National Conference of Catholic Bishops for their efforts as a whole for their efforts at being open to the public.

See link: http://www.atlanticvideo.com/clients/ccom/stlouis_03.htm

I still think that some of the bishops need to be hit with a two by four just to get their attention, but the conference is trying.

Can you imagine what it would be like if the press conferences were in Latin?

God Bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), June 21, 2003.


Carlos can fly high when a prelate is disgraced. It's his absolute right in our country. But his gloating makes me want to throw up.

Not because I'm happy with the overt disgrace of a Catholic bishop. He will have a sterner Judge in the last day, than you or me. But men like Carlos are going to face judgment too. Our Lord has a score to settle with Judas and his kind.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 21, 2003.


Dear John Placette:

Have you identified yourself with the goats? Look at this one:

''. . . whole incident the pope remained as silent as a tomb. He didn't even wring his hands as he has been more than ready to do for the cause of historical and oecumenical matters. Where is he? Oh, he's in Bosnia, having just been to Croatia. Does anyone else get the idea that the pope escapes from Rome as frequently as possible . . . ''

Judas was calm when he kissed the Gate of Heaven. He got his money.

Carlos is hysterical over the ''secular press'', and the scandal they eat up. You know Satan is pleased with the pseudo-Catholics in this forum. He gets them without spending a dime.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), June 21, 2003.



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