I am a Catholic with an annulment and have been discussing marriage with my Catholic boyfriend. The problem is that he previously had a Catholic marriage for 15 years then got divorced to his ex (additional 11 years) - and neither he or his ex pursued an annulment. Now, we are speaking about the possibilities of marriage, and I have stated that I want to get married in the Catholic Church. His ex re-married outside of the Catholic church approx. 3 years ago & I have requested that he start the annulment process.

My question: If his ex has been re-married, wouldn't that constitute adultery of the first marriage and would the annulment process go any quicker because of this?

Thank you for your help!

-- Angelica (aka444ica@aol.com), May 31, 2003

Answers

>> wouldn't that constitute adultery of the first marriage

Yes.

>> would the annulment process go any quicker because of this?

No. Anything that his ex-wife did 8 years after their divorce would have absolutely no bearing on the validity of their marriage. It's validity (or nullity) depends only on factors that were present or absent at the time of the marriage.

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 31, 2003.

Sorry, my last sentence wasn't clear enough. I should have written, "It's validity (or nullity) depends only on factors that were present or absent at the time that the marriage (ceremony) took place." It is possible that actions during the early years of the marriage can be evidence of those factors, e.g., cheating the week after the ceremony would be evidence of a lack of intention to be faithful.

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 31, 2003.

JANE, THAT WAS A COMPASSIONATE STATEMENT!

WWJD.

GOD BLESS.

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), June 01, 2003.

jane,

i dont think in my tenure (read three months) here that ive seen you post before... are you new or just a silent reader most of the time?

either way, you make too many assumptions about this poor girl whom you acost. reconsider your words and the statement of the question before you judge whether or not angelica is even committing adultery.

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 01, 2003.

I'm not sure how a response to Jane's post arrived on this forum when I had been out of town yesterday and just got back - but, I felt that a response from me personally would be appropriate. To Clarify - I did NOT say the following and do not know why someone would write such a thing in my name. THEY said:

You have been an eye-opener to me! Thanks for your hard words!

-- Angelica (aka444ica@aol.com), June 01, 2003.

I will say though - First, I would like to thank all those who compassionately answered my question - I thank you so much. You see, I was not asking for anyone to make up a response to me that I would like - I was genuinely interested in what the Catholic Church teaches so that I could know and understand how to proceed.

As for Jane, I'm truly sorry you misinterpreted what I said as to have committed adultry - when in fact, I have not done so in any way nor do I intend to. I love my Catholic faith, and am truly trying to look with both eyes open as to how a marriage with this man would impact my faith as a Catholic. To judge me in this way I feel was a bit unfair - especially if you really knew me. For me to take a step into a forum of this nature when I have never been in this type of environment was a big step for me - and yes, I opened myself up a bit - even to someone with harsh words as you have given to me. I will pray that God guides me to do his will in all situations - I will pray for everyone in this forum that God Blesses them - and Jane, I will also pray for you - that he softens your heart to truly hear the non-judgmental words he teaches us and that in the future, when someone asks a question, that rather than jumping to conclusions, that you actually ask them questions first to find out the truth, then to follow up with your advice.

God Bless Everyone & I thank you - Angelica

-- Angelica (aka444ica@aol.com), June 01, 2003.

no, angelica, there was another harsh post on here from someone calling themselves jane accusing you of adultery. the moderator cut her post out but left mine, so my post no longer makes sense. im glad you didnt respond the way it was posted. welcome back to the forum.

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 03, 2003.

-there has been no annulment AND marriage is being discussed... Apparently it is not adultery -what is this called?

Is this putative adultery? -just curious...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), June 03, 2003.

daniel,

now you judge too quickly. nothing in her original post indicates that they are engaged in sexual behavior at this point. only that they would like to get married in a catholic church. they come asking the proper steps and you pull out your adulterer card instead of helping. SHAME ON YOU. you dont know anything of the facts. angelica, pay no heed to a judgement coming from hawkenberry, this is the same one who says that spousal abuse doesnt merit seperation...

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 03, 2003.

7. In this perspective, for example, it is necessary to take seriously the obligation imposed on the judge by canon 1676 to favour and to seek actively the possible convalidation and reconciliation of the marriage. Naturally the same attitude of support for marriage and the family must prevail before turning to the tribunal. In pastoral assistance consciences must be patiently enlightened with the truth concerning the transcendent duty of fidelity presented in an attractive and favourable way. Working towards a positive overcoming of marital conflicts and in providing assistance to the faithful who are in an irregular marital situation, it is necessary to create a synergy that involves everyone in the church: pastors of souls, jurists, experts in the psychological and psychiatric sciences, other laity, especially those who are married and have life experience. All must keep in mind that they are dealing with a sacred reality and with a question that touches on the salvation of souls.

JPII

-- kjw (info@juno.com), June 03, 2003.

-paul,

I mentioned nothing of sex...

I will also add that sex is not a requirement for adultery...

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), June 03, 2003.

P.S. paul,

adultery vs. abuse -which is the more sinful -does it matter...

are you unknowingly a moral relativist?

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), June 03, 2003.

Re: Boyfriend ???

9. The essential witness to the value of indissolubility is given through the married life of the spouses, in their fidelity to the bond, through all the joys and trials of life. However the value of indissolubility cannot be held to be just the object of a private choice: it concerns one of the cornerstones of all society. Therefore, while all the initiatives that Christians, along with other persons of good will, promote for the good of the family (for example, the celebrations of wedding anniversaries) are to be encouraged, one must avoid the risk of permissiveness on fundamental issues concerning the nature of marriage and the family (cf. Letter to Families, n. 17).

Among the initiatives should be those that aim at obtaining the public recognition of indissoluble marriage in the civil juridical order (cf. ibid., n. 17). Resolute opposition to any legal or administrative measures that introduce divorce or that equate de facto unions-including those between homosexuals- with marriage must be accompanied by a pro-active attitude, acting through juridical provisions that tend to improve the social recognition of true marriage in the framework of legal orders that unfortunately admit divorce.

On the other hand, professionals in the field of civil law should avoid being personally involved in anything that might imply a cooperation with divorce. For judges this may prove difficult, since the legal order does not recognize a conscientious objection to exempt them from giving sentence.

For grave and proportionate motives they may therefore act in accord with the traditional principles of material cooperation. But they too must seek effective means to encourage marital unions, especially through a wisely handled work of reconciliation.

Lawyers, as independent professionals, should always decline the use of their profession for an end that is contrary to justice, as is divorce. They can only cooperate in this kind of activity when, in the intention of the client, it is not directed to the break-up of the marriage, but to the securing of other legitimate effects that can only be obtained through such a judicial process in the established legal order (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 2383). In this way, with their work of assisting and reconciling persons who are going through a marital crises, lawyers truly serve the rights of the person and avoid becoming mere technicians at the service of any interest whatever.

JP II

-- kjw (info@juno.com), June 03, 2003.

kjw,

-where did you go? your pointed on the mark posts without commentary are missed...

Daniel////

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), October 19, 2003.

"kjw" could be "Karl," not wanting to reveal that he would quote the pope out of context, if it seems to be to his benefit.

-- (No@Dissenters.Please), October 20, 2003.