I just read a report from the Wall Street Journal that the National Museum in Iraq is missing a whopping total of 38 items.

The newspaper questions then wether the hue and cry about the "humanitarian disaster" was "another Jenin", a reference to the Palestinian refugee camp that the Jews invaded. Back then the hue and cry was of "massacre of hundreds of civilians". When all was said and done, only a dozen or so were found dead, and most of those by accident or "friendly fire" from other palestinians.

I just wondered if anyone else got this news or if anyone cares.

How much of our belief of the world is predicated on ideology? We here bad news about an opponent and presume the worst. Numbers are inflated, intentions are divined, the darkest motives assigned. Lack of evidence is evidence of a conspiracy. The big picture is lost....until the hype dies away and calmer voices are heard as in:

"Bush won in Florida recounts."

-- Joe Stong (joestong@yahoo.com), May 07, 2003

Answers

[to the top]

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

Joe I dont think this type of question is relevant in a Catholic forum. I dont think its accurate anyway but thats not the point this is not the forum to discuss such "current events", certainly not in order to score political points, try freerepublic.com . Seriously I think you need somewhere to bounce your politcal ideas as it seems to be your passion. Cheers

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

Kiwi,

I think Joe is carrying over a previous few threads on whether or not it was moral for Catholics to be in Iraq, etc., at least that's the tie in I'd made.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), May 07, 2003.

Oh ok sorry I missed it.

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

Joe I did a bit of checking myself and I think its too early to say exactly what has been lost. I fully agree the press got the early reports wrong but so what? This is not the sole domain of the “left” many stories in the media made false claims about WMD, chemical factories, mass graves etc etc that all turned out to be false but you don’t see me posting them her to support any political agenda I may hold. Ive had a look and I cannot see where this thread directly ties in to other threads…Frank?

II think the Denver Post editorial from 6 may puts it well

“Questions abound. What exactly was stolen? How significant was it? Can it be recovered? The story seems to change every day. Experts do agree on one thing: The losses at museums, libraries and other places were catastrophic even if smaller than first feared.”

For an accurate report from an arts based paper Ive pasted the following article and confirmed missing items. Cheers

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/article.asp?idart=11018

Assessing the losses

Initial reports suggested that the museum had lost most of the collection. Senior museum official Nabhal Amin was quoted on 12 April as saying, “they have looted or destroyed 170,000 items”, representing the full inventory. Fortunately, the scale of the losses now seems to have been much smaller, thanks to precautionary measures.

Dr George told The Art Newspaper that only around 100 objects had been left in the public galleries, items which were too heavy or fragile to move. The majority of these were looted, including many extremely important objects. Among the ancient masterpieces probably lost from the galleries are the Warka Vase of 3100 BC, gold from the lyre of Ur, gold rosettes and a copper cup from Tell Ubaid and a headless statue of King Entemena of Lagash. Other stone statues which proved too difficult to remove were damaged, but some large stone reliefs escaped relatively unscathed.

The situation inside the vault is more difficult to assess, since the area has not been officially entered by museum staff. But, by peering through the hole broken into the brick wall, Dr George and Dr Curtis were able to see that in the first section, pots and other objects had been swept off shelves and abandoned on the floor. The extent of the losses remain unknown, but the hope is that in the darkened basement the looters would have found it difficult to locate the items of major financial value. Dr George believes that only a small proportion of the 170,000 objects in the vaults may have been looted, although this will only be confirmed after months of checking.

The National Museum’s most valuable objects are now thought to be safe in the vaults of the central bank. Although it was known that the recently discovered Nimrud gold treasures had been stored there, Dr George told The Art Newspaper that gold coins and other portable valuables had also been deposited at the central bank. Although the ground floor of the bank was looted, rubble from US bombing or artillery fortuitously blocked the entrance to the vaults. This has not yet been cleared, but the expectation is that the museum’s most valuable objects are safe.

But despite this latest encouraging news from Baghdad, it has to be stressed that the full extent of the losses will only become apparent once the museum vaults have been properly examined and the central bank safe has been checked. It remains clear that the looting and vandalism at the National Museum represents a tragedy which will take years to deal with.

Preliminary and partial list of looted objects in the Iraq Museum, Baghdad

(Numbers in [] brackets refer to illustrations, numbers in {}brackets refer to page numbers in F. Basmachi, Treasures of the Iraq Museum, Baghdad 1976. “IM” numbers are registration numbers)

“Warka Vase” – alabaster vase decorated with reliefs, c. 3100 BC. From Uruk IM 19606. [31] {396}

“Warka Head” – life-size female head, c. 3100 BC. From Uruk. IM 45434. [21] {396}

Headless, inscribed statue of King Entemena of Lagash, c. 2400 BC IM 5. [538] {398}

Ivory of lion attacking Nubian, c. 850-750 BC. From Nimrud IM 56642. [175] {405}

Handle formed by double figure of nude female. From Nimrud IM 56346. [176] {405}

Ivory chair back with five figures, c. 850-750 BC. From Nimrud IM 61898. [178] {405}

Ivory chair-back with sun-disc symbol, c. 850-750 BC. From Nimrud IM 62722. [177] {405}

Limestone statue of Hermes, c. 200 BC. From Nineveh IM 59094. [198] {406}

Head from time of Trajan. From Hatra IM 73039. [234 centre] {408}

Marble statue of Poseidon, c. AD 160. From Hatra IM 73005. [199] {406}

Head of marble statue of Apollo, body of statue smashed c. AD 160. From Hatra IM 73004. [200] {406}

Marble statue of Eros, c. AD 160. From Hatra IM 73041. [201] {406}

Lid of marble casket. From Hatra IM 58068. [221] {407}

Limestone head in Parthian style. From Hatra IM 56777. [234 left] {408}

Limestone head of Tyche. From Hatra IM 73010. [234 right] {408}

Bronze head from a Greek figure of Nike. From Hatra.

Head from marble statue of a seated goddess. From Hatra IM 58086. [245] {408}

Wooden door from mosque in Mosul, 12th century AD IM A677. [277] {410}

Islamic wooden pillars.

Reconstructed lyre from Ur. Gold stripped off IM 8694. [82] {399}

Terracotta lions, c. 1800 BC. From Tell Harmal, smashed IM 52559-60. [107] {401}

Caryatid Assyrian god. From Khorsabad, smashed IM 25963/11949. [140] {403}

For illustrations of pieces believed to have been looted click here

For complete photographs from the 1976 catalogue of the Iraq National Museum click here. Pieces believed to be missing are highlighted in red.

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), May 09, 2003.