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Following Obscene and Defamatory text on Hinduism is from missionary web site that claims to have 9000 hits/day Hinduism is a federations of religions, or a religious anarchy in action............... Shiva is a most popular god in India, and the one who attracts most devotion: As "Nataraja", the lord of dance with 4 arms, wanders naked about the countryside on his white bull Nandy, overindulging in drugs, and encouraging starvation and self-mutilation. As "Bhairava", is the patricidal god of terror using his father's skull for a bowl. As "Ardhanarisvara", has an androgynous, hermaphrodite sexual image. The sanctuaries of Shiva always feature a big "lingman", the stylized erect penis which symbolizes his rampant sexuality. The wives of Shiva are very popular: "Shakti", encourages orgies, temple prostitution, and annual sacrifices; she originated "sutee", with the widow throwing herself into the fire of her husband funeral... its manifestation as "Kali" is the most sinister and bloodthirsty, and most popular: She stands on a beheaded body, wearing a necklace of human skulls... there are today reports of 100 human sacrifice murders every year in India in honor to Kali................... Do not enter the jungle of Hinduism... and get out of it while you can

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Site address:

The site address is - http://religion-cults.com The page containing this offending text is - http://religion-cults.com/Eastern/Hinduism/hindu11.htm Person behind 'Religion-Cults.com' is Dr. Jerome Dominguez, M.D. Ph.D. Dr.Jerome practices Internal Medicine in New York, He treated 150,000 patients till 1998, Published 68 books, Has 32 web sites, Has 30 minutes programs on television and radio for 34 years without interruption, In 1981 he ran for Mayor of New York, Has written 110,000 booklets on "Abortion is Murder" and over 700,000 pamphlets.

Such a respectable person is writing maligning information about Hinduism. He is the same person who writes very friendly text about Islam. Do you know why? He is well aware of consequences if he writes such things about Islam. But he feels he is free to write anything about India, her religion and culture. We need to change this, we need to tell all such bigots that this should stop. They should stop maligning our culture and Gods. They need to learn to respect every religion equally ------------------------------------------ I have been posting a lot of evidences of the conversion problems in India, this is the most convincing one, can anybody comment?

-- middle (middlegray@yahoo.com), April 16, 2003

Answers

A very fine book I had read of which a movie was also made was The Deceivers. " First hand account of British soldiers rooting out members of the Cult Of Kali - circa 1830 -1850 range.

A most interesting read as it appeared the last survivor of a 500 year cult was a boy of twelve who resurrected the society which is still in existance today.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 16, 2003.


I'm really confused . . . you speak of "our culture and Gods". Do you realize you're posting to a Catholic forum? This is not an India forum. This is not an Islamic forum. What exactly is your culture and who are your "Gods"? Whether or not it maligns Hinduism, is what Dr. Jerome writes true? Isn't it better to speak the truth than to remain silent while lies lead millions to the eternal grave?

Or are you perhaps referring to problems in converting Indians to Catholicism and "bigotry" being the primary obstacle you can identify? Why should one "respect" a religion that leads one to spend eternity in Hell? Shouldn't we warn them of their fate? Shouldn't we tell them the Truth? That's the Christian mission - to tell everyone in the world that they don't have to follow religions of idolatry and demons, that Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), April 16, 2003.


actually, hes quite right... the text he presented is a grave misrepresentation of the tenets of hindu peoples. its really a horrible thing to type, presented by someone who has obviously never actually had any experience with the real hindu church. Im not advocating hinduism, but the way to conversion is not to tell people they are wrong because of a pack of lies. remember that in modern more people are converted by kindness than by evangelicals. further, to spread such falsehoods is a lie, which violates the tenets of our own faith. might i point out that the multiple 'gods' of hinduism are, much like our Holy Trinity, different manifestations of the same supreme divinity... while i dont think we should forsake our efforts at conversion, nor do i feel we should adopt the traditions of hinduism, it is important not to condemn a peoples because of lies.

-- paul (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 16, 2003.

Paul - Very wise and sagely, You have the stuff which is set in the skin of man called love.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 16, 2003.

I need to admit that my comments were directed to the underlying idolatry that Hinduism represents and the eternal dangers of following it. I didn't even delve into the particulars of the stated text in question. Once I saw the statement that we need to "respect every religion equally" I was drawn to this motive behind the posting, which is really what I was addressing.

In other words, Paul, you're right. I agree with your post.

At the same time, my suspicions were confirmed in several email exchanges that Mr. "Middle" initiated with me. He, personally, has no respect for Christianity and believes that those of us who do not think that Hindus share as much truth as Christians are worthless, narrow-minded bigots. He truly believes a universalism that all paths lead to God equally.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), April 16, 2003.



I was born and raised in Kerala, India. St Thomas the apostle himself came here and converted people, and this is also his resting place. I am happy to say that I made a pilgrimage to the final resting place of the Apostle who first proclaimed Jesus as God ("My lord, my God"). The fact that there are bad people following bad religion does not make a country look bad. Hunduism is popular in India among a lot, but even that religion was carried over from others a long time ago. Actually, this is the only country which was formed from smaller kingdomes with different cultures and traditions, and you could imagince how difficult it is and how wonderful it is that all of them are together as one nation, one of the greatest nations, even with each state having different cultures and different languages. Also, this country acquired freedom by a method of non violence, under Mahatma Gandhi who was not a chrsitian but who openly stated that he loves christ, and is respected by many catholic priests worldwide. This is also a good example to christians who think they are doing good in the name of God, acting against his teaching and goes to war and so on. God's ways are mysterious to everyone, and even a non christian could teach a christian that he could be good and of good heart, and being a christian is not merely in name, but we should practice what we preach. The hindu religion is full of nonsense and evil, but the human sacrifices are made in small areas were people live in jungle, refusing to be civilized. In India, only very few in the hundreds used to practice this and this has come to a stop long ago, and this is a country whose population is in billions, in the same area as China. I live in the US and I have the previlage to be an American and an Indian at the same time. I am proud to be a catholic and to know that St Thomas came here to make us catholics and rests here. Also, this is the country Columbus was looking for, fillind with golden cities and Kings, and accidentally arrived at present America and called the natives Red Indians in disappointment of not finding what he wanted to see. India is not hinduism. This is the secular nation which respects every religion. The president is a muslim, the prime minister is a hindu and the cheif minister of my state is a catholic. And thousands of hindus are being converted by means of the hard works of missionaries in India and those who come from outside, but the world was always against those who followed christ and it will be like that. Just wanted to say that whenever you think India, don't think hinduism, and avoid any misunderstanding that anyone might have.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), April 21, 2003.

Also, hindus are very nice people only wrong in their belief. I believe that if a person, regardless of what religion, truly has a good heart and want to lead a good life, God will intervene and somehow, someway, he or she too will meet the the creator and experience his mercy, because he is the God of all people. The only section which I doubt in this case, is the people who worship satan and makes church of satan. Allowing this as a christian is more serious and sinful.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), April 21, 2003.

Dear Abraham,
What a marvelous message! You are clearly a fine person and a devout Christian. Everything you say is right, and Ghandi truly was a holy man, I agree. Christ will have loved him deeply and extended His divine mercy.

One of my best friends in San Diego is a lady born in Delhi. Sita B., a classically trained pianist, she played at our wedding ceremony. She's a devout Catholic, and married a good American Catholic, too.

Tell us your personal impression of Mother Theresa, Abraham. --And in passing, I recommend the film (a video is available) The River, 1951, directed by Jean Renoir. (It's the first color movie filmed in India, wonderful,) and much in the story clarifies the Hindu love of God. It will surprise some people. Please reply to my question, Abraham, regarding Mother Theresa of Calcutta. Thanks!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 21, 2003.


Thanks Eugene for your kind words. I have not seen the video but I will try to buy it. Mother Theresa indeed gives hope and peace to those especially the poorest of all people. I have read her biography and how she cared about the little children and her love for them. Not olnly them, but the old people who have no more place to live and are abandoned by their children and relatives. The order that she started is being given donations by people of all faiths, because even they are impressed by their devotion and the sincerity. We could imagine her passion and love by knowing that she started her work by bringing dying people from the streets to a home where they could die in peace. She took care of those who had no hope, in this world filled with greed, lust and trecheory. She left her homeland and made India her country and stayed here till her death to save the poor, and she didn't even care what religion they were in. She was a living saint, and we know that she will be made a saint, even though the process is much slower and difficult nowadays. The sisters of charity are all filled with her grace and the Lord look after them, who takes care of the poor, who bear his image. Her successor Sr Nirmala takes special care to follow the rules of the mother and to make sure that nothing wrong happens. I am so happy to hear that you love mother Teresa and you know that most of the things that are spread around about others are lies. In fact, if the saint apostles of God did not come and patiently stayed with our ancestors and loved them, we woudln't know God now. We have to be grateful for the great gift that we have, as we know God, and we also should show great compassion to others who don't, and the missionaries and good people try to bring the word of God to them, not my means of force or deception or money, but by their actions and their love and their faith. Mother Theresa was here, St Francis Xavier rests here, St Thomas the apostle rests here and they all came here to announce the good news by means of love, passion and faith. That is exactly why people of all religion loves and respects them.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), April 22, 2003.

Hello Mr Abraham, Not a surprise, that you were born in kerala. All the aledged so- called priests, I met / heard of in Arunachal Pradesh (Northeastern India), were fom Kerala or some other south-indian state.

1) You said: "The hindu religion is full of nonsense and evil"

2) You also said: "India is not hinduism. This is the secular nation which respects every religion. The president is a muslim, the prime minister is a hindu and the cheif minister of my state is a catholic"

---------------------------------- Now let me comment; to make a statement on Hindu religion, one should AT LEAST be literate in Sanskrit (for your information, Sanskrit is, we can say, Official Language of this religion). I pity your sweet ignorance and narrow minded stubborn attitude. But I wont't blame you. Your religion may be more responsible for that.

Now the secont point- thats a nice point you have there, The Indian Secularism. To you surprise, the hindu religion is govened by the very same principle- Secularism. Hinduism does not force itself on anybody; a strong point of difference between it and the Christianity, isn't it? The secularism of India is actually based on the mother instinct: "equality in all religions" taught by Hinduism.

Again, calling the Indian Freedom srtuggle a bloodless, not violent one; is a mistake. (don't feel sorry for it, a common one in INDO- AMERICANS like you) The fact that Gandhi was the best known man in the struggle doesn't conclude the struggle to be non violent.

Lastly I have few questions for you, just to make you knowledge about india and true (NOT POPULAR, as you calle it) hinduism go public.

1) Name just one verse from Geeta (attempt only if you know WHAT is Geeta :) 2) Name just five freedom fighters who were christian. 3) You talked about indian freedom struggle, What exactly do you about following people: a) Veer Sawarker b) Bal Gangadhar Tilak c) Vallabh Patel 4) Mention just ONE instance of forced conversion by a HINDU on christian.

some more clarifiacation for the readers: I believe: It's non of anyone's business to evaluate and intervene in what somebody believes or doesnot believe in, just follow your own way. It's that simple, Mr Abraham, thats what your Free-Minded US say, right? I have urged one thing righ from day one on this thread: if you don't know things, just don't make a fool of yourself by talking about it.

-- middle (middlegray@yahoo.com), April 25, 2003.



Jmj
Hello, "middlegray."
You wrote: "Hinduism does not force itself on anybody; a strong point of difference between it and the Christianity, isn't it?"

Since you have asked the question, the answer is, "No, there is no strong point of difference."
For the moment, I will assume that you are telling the truth about Hinduism, though I think that we may hear differently from Abraham. (It seems that I've heard that extremist Hindus have been killing many Christians in recent years.) Well, anyway, the truth -- contrary to your false charge -- is that Christianity "does not force itself on anybody." If you think that I am wrong, I challenge you to name some examples, events that happened during your lifetime, in which Christians forced non-Christians to convert to the religion of Jesus.
Shukriya.

May the one and only God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 25, 2003.


Dear John, and Abraham;
The visitor who called him or her - -self ''Middle'' is new to ONE truth.

I blame his religion, as middle blames ours for your--? --''your sweet ignorance and narrow minded stubborn attitude.I wont't blame you. Your religion may be more responsible for that.''

This is the truth he never heard in India--

NO-- there is no ''equality in all religions.'' If it is a mother instinct,-- ''--The secularism of India is actually based on the mother instinct: "equality in all religions" --taught by Hinduism.

then, I'm sorry Middle-- Hinduism is teaching something false. Instinct is no excuse.

God has truly revealed Himself to men. Not out of ancient mythology; but rather in coming down to His Creation and living amidst His people. First the Israelites. With the Patriarchs and Prophets, who spoke for Him. We accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God. We din't invent a religion. It is not equalled by every other religion, since other religions have no direct knowledge of God. Others are myths and legends arrived through the ages to your religious stages.

I'm not scoffing; there is no cause to look down on those who never had the revelation given them. God is merciful to all; and He draws all men to Himself through missions by His faithful into lands that do not know him yet. That is the main difference between the people of your South, like from Kerala; they have now been given TRUTH, Middle-- not instinct. Thanks be to God. Bravo, John and thanks, Abraham. God bless you, Middle. We all pray for you; and wish you well.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), April 25, 2003.


I have nothing to say, Middle. I am the least qualified person to make a debate. Even though it is very tempting to answer to all that you have said, I will not. I have just learned my lesson that I should shut up and think about how to save my soul. God bless you, and may God have mercy on my soul. Thank you.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), April 27, 2003.

Hello John, The Fact that Hinduism does not force itself on any other Non-Hindu person IS true, and has nothing to do with the killings you might have herd of. As a matter of fact, the killings, though I am not sure which ones you are talking about, seemingly are reactions to the unpleasant activities those priests were involved into. I won't justify the killings, nobody would, but it's a good idea to think about the incidents in detail.

Regarding your challenge: "Christianity does not force itself on anybody", is an tempting one especially when I have full two states of my country converted to 100% Christian states in last 20 years. If you make a trip to India, I will show you around Nagaland and Misoram. I personally have been to Arunachal Pradesh and Meghalaya where the same problem is rooting itself. I have met people who got converted against a monthly diet, against medicines, and so many other inducements. The so-called missionaries have also been demonstrating deceptive tricks to make people disbelieve their own region and idols. One such trick: the missionaries take a wooden cross and to the potential converts, they ask for the available idols, if any, in their homes. Which happen to be mostly made of metal or stone (most of the Hindu idols you get in India are made from metals or stone. Nothing religious about it, it's just a matter of fact). Then both the things are immersed in a bucket of water. As only the cross floats on the surface; being made of wood, the missionaries claim it, and in turn Christianity, to be more powerful.

Funny isn't it, for us educated people. But this makes an impressive demonstration to those who belong to the mountains, especially when such potential conversion is going to be followed by monetary perks. Isn't this cunning? The definitions of FORCE in this modern world have changed and we all are aware of it. And if somebody still wants to be blindfolded, it's a personal choice. Namaste; not shukria (Shukria is an urdu word, Namaste is Sanskrit form for Greetings)

PS. Mr. Abraham has backed off. This is what I hate. Can anybody answer my questions in the past post? Abraham, you said you are qualified enough to debate, and which university gave you these qualifications, which you can't or don't want to use; as you choose to shut up?

-- middle (middlegray@yahoo.com), April 27, 2003.


Middle, Sir or Madam:
No one has ''shut up,'' on account of any verbal challenge you presented. This fine gentleman is too charitable to offend you. You make inflammatory remarks, while he is filled with kindness and grace.

No one forces you to believe, and clearly you won't be forced. Faith is given us from above. God makes the believer. Satan is happy to incite you and others to hatred. Follow him, then. If you grieve for the believers in India who have entered a new life of faith, save your pity. We have been given a simple choice by our Creator: life and death. We choose life.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), April 27, 2003.



eugene, I did not present and "Verbal Challenge", this is much more serious that that. Please go up and read first question I asked in this thread. Secondly you are talking about my "inflammatory" remarks, but I guess you haven't read the Obscene and Defamatory text on Hinduism from missionary web site I have mentioned in the first place. isn't that inflammatory?

One more thing, the very idea of "Single Idea Of God" itself, is funny. In this scientific world we have two or more point of views on every single known and imaginary fact of life, and the idea of god is purely based on faith and so can have as many interpretations as the population of the earth itself! One should be happy whatever he or she believes in and should not expect All the other to follow it.

Regarding the choices, you have been offered by the creator you believe in, you are unfortunate to not have MOKSHA as one of the choices! Go read the Definition of Moksha in some philosophy books.

:)

-- midle (middlegray@yahoo.com), April 27, 2003.


Middle:
You are too hasty. In fact, Abraham had first denounced that evil tract, telling us that was not India. He said clearly, Hinduism is not that way, and Hindus are very good people. Then he went on to describe what the faith has done for Indians. It wasn't an attack on your country at all.

You came out swinging at this good man; insinuating he was ignorant, and should not presume to know all about India. Therefore, you are making incendiary statements. Especially since you go on to belittle the efforts of our missionaries, and call them evil. You make them out as simple charlatans.

But all the while, you take NO stance against superstition and error. All the dark ways of Kali and the rest. To you these are ''cultural icons''--? Not to me.

I was appealing to your sense of fairness. Do not flame out at Abraham. Or against Christians. All you need do is say with honesty; ''To me it is not worth discussing.'' If you do, we won't discuss it any longer with you. We will not ''force'' you in any direction. Peace!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), April 27, 2003.


i am a devout christian, but i do respect all religions and i do think that dr. dominguez is wrong in saying this. i have been to india and studies other religions and actually, the doctor is completely misinformed about a lot of topics. if he was to be informed about this relgion then i would respect his oppinion whole-heartedly, but because he is providing wrong information to the public. i think this is very wrong, it is the same as a hindu person saying to the uninformed that christianity promotes group orgies among teenagers. it is wrong because an ignorant person would believe this. i feel strongly that the doctor needs to be informed of hinduism by someone who knows what they're talking about... i really believe this and i know, myself, that i'm right.

-- catherine demarco (f@d.com), September 02, 2004.

Kindly dont malign any religion. If you feel Christianity is great..it definitely might be - FOr you. If another finds Hinduisim great, it would definitely be right for him. Why this futile attempt to prove one better over the other? Isn't this foolish for literate citizens of this global world!. If everyone started following the same religion, same god, ate the same food, played the same game there would be no charm left in this earth. Please wake up to reality and stop this fight over something that is extremely personal such as Faith!.

Good Luck

-- S_iyer (s@india.com), November 25, 2004.


If everyone started eating the same food and playing the same games then yes, there would be no charm left in this earth. However, if everyone started worshipping the same God as He intends to be worshipped there would be an overwhelming sense of truth, peace and justice throughout the earth. The claim that all religions are of equal value can be made only if objective truth doesn't exist, or doesn't matter. But if objective truth does exist and does matter, then obviously a religion that professes this truth is superior to one that doesn't. And two religions professing conflicting doctrines cannot both be professing the truth. Of course, if objective truth doesn't exist, then all religions are of equal value, since none of them have any real value at all.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 26, 2004.

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