Garabandal - on Focus Christian Network

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I love the program on the Prayer Channel with MaryLou MacCall and Archbiship Hannan called Focus. Well, they had a two parter with Maria Saraca who is spreading the word about Garabandal. It seems that MaryLou macCall (whom I admire very much) believes it. The Warning, Miracle, Permanent Proof on the Pines, and the Chastisement are all part of this revelation that was given to children in the sixties. Archbishop Hanan said after the program that discretion is needed and that you do not have to believe it. It is totally up to you. What is the concensus here about Garabanal? Thanks, MaryAnn

-- maryann (maryann.parker@citigroup.com), March 04, 2003

Answers

Response to Garabanal - on Focus Christian Network

Garabandal is a disapproved supposed "apparition". You do not HAVE to believe anything about ANY reported apparition, even approved ones. But in the case of disapproved ones like Garabandal it is specifically risky to believe in it at all. None of the miracles and great signs predicted by the children there have occurred during the 40 years since the supposed events.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 04, 2003.

Response to Garabanal - on Focus Christian Network

Although Catholics are not obligated to believe in apparitions, I would check this out for yourself. Some apparitions like Fatima cannot be ignored. Go to www.garabandal.us which is the main US site started by Joey Lomangino of New York. He went to Garabandal during the apparitions after asking St. Padre Pio if the blessed Mother was appearing there. Padre Pio said yes. Padre Pio also cured Joey of his sense of smell that he lost in an accident. Joey started the worldwide movement on Garabandal. This is what their website says regarding the Church's position on Garabandal:

There has been no official statement, issued from Rome, regarding the Church’s opinion on the events of Garabandal. The Church wisely and prudently withholds her opinion until all that has been prophesied takes place. It is rare for apparitions to be strongly endorsed by Rome, rather they are eventually found to be “worthy of belief”. This was the case at both Lourdes and Fatima.

The local Spanish Bishops have been predictably skeptical. This temperance is commendable as it would be rash to lend apostolic approval to an incomplete apparition. After all, it took 13 years to find the apparitions at Fatima “worthy of belief” even after culminating in a well witnessed and documented miracle. Padre Pio, even after his evident sanctified life and many miracles, was canonized on June 16, 2002. It has been 34 years since his death.

There were only two messages from the blessed Mother, they were:

OUR LADY'S MESSAGE OF GARABANDAL

October 18, 1961—We must make many sacrifices, perform much penance, and visit the Blessed Sacrament frequently. But first, we must lead good lives. If we do not, a chastisement will befall us. The cup is already filling up, and if we do not change, a very great chastisement will come upon us.

June 18, 1965—As my message of October 18 has not been complied with and has not been made known to the world, I am advising you that this is the last one. Before, the cup was filling up. Now it is flowing over. Many cardinals, many bishops and many priests are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them. Less and less importance is being given to the Eucharist. You should turn the wrath of God away from yourselves by your efforts. If you ask His forgiveness with sincere hearts, He will pardon you. I, your mother, through the intercession of Saint Michael the Archangel, ask you to amend your lives. You are now receiving the last warnings. I love you very much and do not want your condemnation. Pray to us with sincerity and we will grant your requests. You should make more sacrifices. Think about the passion of Jesus. The most important apparition of this century is of course Fatima. For the truth on this visit www.fatima.org. Don't believe the Vatican when they say the consecration of Russia has been done. This is why there is a crisis in the Catholic Church now.

I would not believe in the apparition at Medjugorje. The blessed Mother does not give message after message see: http://www.icubed.com/~rpoe/medugorj.htm

-- Joe K. (romnkath@yahoo.com), March 07, 2003.


Response to Garabanal - on Focus Christian Network

Dear Maryann

In 1882, Christ revealed to the stigmatist, Marie Julie Jahenny of La Fraudais, France that:

"In the last days, a seemingly unlimited amount of FALSE REVELATIONS will arise from hell like a swarm of flies; a last attempt of Satan to choke and to destroy the efficacy of the TRUE REVELATIONS by false ones."

Here is what Rome and the local Bishops have said regarding this alleged apparition:

The only proof one needs in any apparition is the decision of the local Bishop. He, and he alone, has the charisma of discernment in these matters. Not only did the Bishop in 1965 condemn Garabandal, but five bishops after him have condemned it. Even Rome had to come into the picture to aid the Bishop.

"The question having been closely examined and a decision having been reached by Your Excellency, the Sacred Congregation has come to the conclusion that there is no reason to intervene in this affair.

Cardinal Ottaviani

Cardinal Seper, Prefect of the congregation For the Sacred Doctrine Of the Faith wrote this letter to Archbishop Philip M. Hannan of New Orleans, Louisiana on April 21, 1970.

"This office has received you letter of April 1970 in which you expressed justifiable apprehension about the diffusion of the Garabandal movement in your Archdiocese and in which you asked for clear and reliable guidelines from the Holy See for dealing with this phenomenon."

"The Holy See share your perception about the manifest and increasing confusion due to the diffusion of this movement among the faithful and desires with this letter to clarify its position on the matter.

"This Sacred Congregation despite requests form various Bishops and faithful has always refused to define the supernatural character of the events of Garabandal. After the definitive negative judgment issued by the Curia of Santander this Sacred Congregation, after attentive examination of the proceedings forwarded to this office has often praised the prudence that characterized the method followed in the examination but has still decided to leave direct responsibility for the matter to the local Ordinary.

"The Holy see has always held that the conclusions and dispositions of the Bishop of Santander were sufficiently secure guidelines for the Christian people and indications for the Bishops to order to dissuade people from participating in pilgrimages and other acts of devotion that are based on claims connected with or founded on the presumed apparitions and messages of Garabandal. On March 10, 1996; this Sacred Congregation wrote a letter to this effect to the Bishop of Santander who had also asked for a more explicit declaration of the Holy See to the matter.

"However promoters of the Garabandal movement have tried to minimize the decisions and the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Santander. THIS SACRED CONGREGATION WANTS IT TO BE CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THE BISHOP OF SANTANDER HAS BEEN AND CONTINUES TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH COMPLETE JURISDICTION IN THIS MATTER AND THE HOLY SEE HAS NO INTENTION OF EXAMINING THIS QUESTION ANY FURTHER, since it holds that the examinations already carried out are sufficient as well as are the official declarations of the Bishop of Santander. There is no truth to the statement that the Holy See has named an Official Papal Private Investigator of Garabandal and affirmations attributed to the anonymous personage to the extent that the verification of the Garabandal apparitions lies completely in the hands of the Holy Father Pope Paul VI and other such expressions that aim at undermining the authority of the decisions of the Bishop of Santander are completely unfounded.

"In order to reply to certain doubts that you expressed in your letter this Sacred Congregation wishes to assert: that the Holy See has never approved even indirectly the Garabandal movement, that it has never encouraged or blessed Garabandal promoters or centers. Rather the Holy See deplores that fact that certain persons and Institutions persist in formatting the movement in obvious contradiction with the dispositions of ecclesiastical authority and thus disseminate confusion among the people especially among the simple and defenseless.

"From what has been said so far you will easily realize that though this Sacred Congregation certainly agrees with the contents of the note of May 10, 1969 (as published in various countries and especially in the French magazine LA DOCUMENTATION CATHOLIC September 21, 1966, n:1547 p. 821) It must say that it is inexact to attribute the part of the text that deals with the lack of supernatural character of the events of Garabandal of the Sacred Congregation which has always striven to abstain from any direct declaration on the question precisely because it did not consider it necessary to do so after the clear and express decisions of the Bishop of Santander. This is the genuine meaning of the letter written on January 21, 1970 by the Most Reverend Paul Phillippe, Secretary of this Sacred Congregation to the editor in chief of LA DOCUMENTATION CATHOLIQUE.

"In order to contribute further to your pastoral action in this matter, this office is enclosing other essential documents already published in other countries such as Spain: The two official notices of the Bishop of Santander, two letters of the Sacred Congregation to the same Bishop and a letter to the Apostolic Delegate to Mexico. This office hopes in this letter to have clarified a question that concerns not just your Archdiocese but also other dioceses.

"With sentiments of deepest esteem and cordial respect

"I am devotedly yours

signed:

"Francis Cardinal Seper Prefect

also signed:

"Paul Philippe , Secretary"

On October 11, 1996 the new bishop, Jose Vilaplana, again placed his prohibition on the alleged apparitions and said it is final.

"Some people have been coming directly to the Diocese of Santander (Spain) asking about the alleged apparitions of Garabandal and especially for the answer about the position of the hierarchy of the Church concerning these apparitions.

I need to communicate that:

1. All the bishops of the diocese since 1961 through 1970 agreed that there was no supernatural validity for the apparitions. 2. In the month of December of 1977 Bishop Dal Val of Santander, in union with his predecessors, stated that in the six years of being bishop of Santander there were no new phenomena. 3. The same bishop, Dal Val, let a few years go by to allow the confusion or fanaticism to settle down, and then he initiated a commission to examine the apparitions in more depth. The conclusion of the commission agreed with the findings of the previous bishops. That there was no supernatural validity to such apparitions. 4. At the time of the conclusions of the study, in 1991, I was installed bishop in the diocese. So during my visit to Rome, as limina visit which happened in the same year, I presented to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith the study and I asked for pastoral direction concerning this case. 5. On Nov. 28, 1992, the Congregation sent me an answer saying that after examining the documentation, there was no need for direct intervention (by the Vatican) to take away the jurisdiction of the ordinary bishop of Santander in this case. Such a right belongs to the ordinary. Previous declarations of the Holy See agree in this finding. In the same letter they suggested that if I find it necessary to publish a declaration, that I reconfirm that there was no supernatural validity in the alleged apparitions, and this will make a unanimous position with my predecessors. 6. Given that the declarations of my predecessors who studied the case have been clear and unanimous, I donÕt find it necessary to have a new public declaration that would raise notoriety about something which happened so long ago. However, I find it necessary to rewrite this report as a direct answer to the people who ask for direction concerning this question, which is now final: I agree with [and] I accept the decision of my predecessors and the direction of the Holy See. 7. In reference to the Eucharistic celebration in Garabandal, following the decision of my predecessors, I ruled that Masses can be celebrated only in the parish church and there will be no references to the alleged apparitions and visiting priests who want to say Mass must have approval from the pastor, who has my authorization. ItÕs my wish that this information is helpful to you.

My regards in Christ,

Jose Vilaplana

Bishop of Santander

Oct. 11, 1996

[Underlines added to the letter by author.]

This was found at www.unitypublishing.com

Mark Trieger



-- Mark Trieger (trieger4@earthlink.net), March 13, 2003.


Response to Garabanal - on Focus Christian Network

It seems that there is a bit of misinformation in here. First it is true that a Catholic does not HAVE to believe in an approved apparition. But is that really advisable? We are all on a spiritual journey. And the destination is heaven. If the Church approves messages from the Mother of God, messages that are for us to use as directions on our journey, would it then be wise to discount them? I would beware of the minimalistic way of viewing faith. Doing only what is required seems to breed a poor attitude and lead to a luke- warmness in souls. Christ told us what happens to people who ride the fence.

Secondly, it was never said, not even once, that the apparitions of Garabandal have been condemned. What HAS been said by the bishop in the first commision is this - "we have not found anything deserving of ecclesiastical censure or condemnation either in the doctrine or in the spiritual recommendations that have been published as having been addressed to the faithful." The second bishop - Bishop del Val - even went so far as to state that the message of Garabandal was "important...and theologically correct." this hardly seems like an Apostolic Condemnation. As in the case of Fatima, Garabandal too has signs and miracles that have been predicted. It would therefore be foolish for the Church to make a final decision until these signs have or have not taken place. Also, a case for Garabandal can be made by looking at other messages by saints and other holy people that were approved by the Church. Saint Faustina for example, mentions a worldwide warning in her diary and Bishop approved Akita Japan - talks about a chastisement if mankind does not repent. These are but two examples of many that lend credibility to the messages of Garabandal. There seems therefore that there are many reasons to believe that the apparitions of Garabandal are authentic. The children themselves predicted that the message of Garabandal would be approved with difficulty. As always, we must differ to the decision of the Church which has NOT taken a position on Garabandal other than it is neither approved or dissapproved. Medjugorje is a whole different topic that I won't get into now.

-- Tony (e-tau@juno.com), March 18, 2003.


Response to Garabanal - on Focus Christian Network

Dear Tony,

I don't know where you are getting your "information" (a pro- Garabandal site perhaps?), but six different local Bishops in succession have categorically condemned the so-called "messages" of Garabandal. Each of those bishops has forbidden pilgrimages to that location. They have also forbidden that the supposed messages be published or disseminated. Garabandal enthusiasts, in utter disregard for the authority of the Church as expressed through the local bishops, have proceeded to do everything the successors of the Apostles have forbidden. How can anyone expect that grace will flow from such an act of defiance?

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 18, 2003.



Response to Garabanal - on Focus Christian Network

Unfortunately there is a Judas in all of us. Whether or not GARABANDAL has ocurred or not GOD knows what is in our hearts,mind and souls, We can fool or make other humans believe or disbelief any aparition occurences, but GOD is ALIVE and that alone should make us speechless and filled with awe !!! GOD knows I am far (sooooo FAAAAAR) from being perfect or from even being good. I cry as I tell you and pray that GOD soften my heart as I had as child....ONLY when I am around children do I feel half decent like if I have a small chance in later being with my LORD...truely if you are sincere and your heart continues to search for CHRIST, loving one another and do unto others as He so wanted ...we will be okay...maybe not grand but halfway there.

-- Diana Romo Grave (Gravemiles@aol.com), April 16, 2003.

There can be no consensus on Garabandal until or unless its prophecies (those that are as yet unfulfilled, to be more precise) are either proven or disproven, something upon which, frankly, none of us are qualified to speak. There always will be those who believe and those who do not, just as there have been since the apparitions began in 1961.

For those who truly desire to know the Church's exact - not alleged or supposed - position on the matter of the Garabandal apparitions, and who are not interested in insinuations or furthering specific agendas, I can refer you to an article I recently wrote ("The Church's True Position on Garabandal"), which can be found on http://www.ourlady.ca/info/ churchPositionUpdate.html).

The piece is the end result of several interviews with Church officials and experts on Garabandal, written and published for the specific purpose of clarifying unequivocably the Church's exact position on Garabandal as of now.

For those who are determined to be negatively pre-disposed to Garabandal, the fact that it resides on a "pro Garabandal Web site" is obviously a testament to its favourable reception by proponents of the Garabandal apparitions. On the other hand, if anyone can speak from first-hand, verifiable experience that indicates the Church's position to be anything other than what it is, I would love to hear from you.

Remember that what we may think the Church is saying or should say is often not what it actually is saying. A very careful assessment is in order when speaking of Garabandal, as the Church has been extremely prudent (as it should be, I think all would agree) on the matter.

Regardless, its position on the matter is clear, in spite of previous admittedly confusing interim statements. I understand this is obviously not what everyone wants to believe, but the truth is out there.

-- Geoff (gapg@attbi.com), June 01, 2003.


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