Primacy of St. Peter (For Ric)greenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
This thread is dedicated to Ric, that he might learn more about St. Peter's important role as the firstpope.
Ric states that he believes the order of the apostles names as they appear in the New Testament merely
indicates the order of their ages: oldest to youngest.
I believe what the Catholic Church teaches: the order hints at their importance within the group.
Let's look at the following verses:
Matthew 10:2-4 - "The names of the twelve apostles 3 are these: first, Simon called Peter, and his
brother Andrew; James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and
Matthew the tax collector; James, the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddeus; Simon the Cananean, and Judas
Iscariot who betrayed him."
Mark 3:16-19 - "(he [Jesus] appointed the twelve:) Simon, whom he named Peter; James, son of
Zebedee, and John the brother of James, whom he named Boanerges, that is, sons of thunder; Andrew,
Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus; Thaddeus, Simon the Cananean, and
Judas Iscariot who betrayed him."
Luke 6:13-16 - "When day came, he [Jesus] called his disciples to himself, and from them he chose
Twelve, whom he also named apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter, and his brother Andrew, James, John,
Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called a Zealot, and
Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor."
Acts 1:13 - "When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying, Peter
and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon
the Zealot, and Judas son of James."
1 Corinthians 15:4,5 - "that he [Jesus] was raised on the third day in accordance with the
scriptures; that he appeared to Kephas [Peter], then to the Twelve."
Now, if we hold to Ric's theory, these passages clearly indicate that Judas Iscariot is the youngest
apostle. According to Ric's theory, John (brother of James) is one of the oldest.
According to the scripture scholars, John is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) apostles. He is
the "Disciple whom Jesus loved," so he should be high on the list. In these Bible quotes, he is listed
as the fourth name (Matthew, Luke), the third name (Mark), or the second name (Acts).
Though Judas Iscariot isn't known to be very young relative to other apostles, he is known to
have fallen out of favor with Our Lord toward the end of his life. It isn't surprising that Judas
shows up in last place on all of the lists where he appears.
-------------
Other Notes
Primacy of Peter, Cardinal Joseph
Ratzinger
St. Peter, Prince of the Apostles
Early Church Fathers discuss St. Peter
In Christ,
Mateo
-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), February 13, 2003
Topola...Let's see if I can fix some of the formatting...
Matthew 10:2-4 - "The names of the twelve apostles 3 are these: first, Simon called Peter, and his brother Andrew; James, the son of Zebedee, and his brother John; Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James, the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddeus; Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot who betrayed him."
Mark 3:16-19 - "(he [Jesus] appointed the twelve:) Simon, whom he named Peter; James, son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James, whom he named Boanerges, that is, sons of thunder; Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus; Thaddeus, Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot who betrayed him."
Luke 6:13-16 - "When day came, he [Jesus] called his disciples to himself, and from them he chose Twelve, whom he also named apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter, and his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called a Zealot, and Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor."
Acts 1:13 - "When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James."
1 Corinthians 15:4,5 - "that he [Jesus] was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures; that he appeared to Kephas [Peter], then to the Twelve."
Now, if we hold to Ric's theory, these passages clearly indicate that Judas Iscariot is the youngest apostle. According to Ric's theory, John (brother of James) is one of the oldest.
According to the scripture scholars, John is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) apostles. He is the "Disciple whom Jesus loved," so he should be high on the list. In these Bible quotes, he is listed as the fourth name (Matthew, Luke), the third name (Mark), or the second name (Acts).
Though Judas Iscariot isn't known to be very young relative to other apostles, he is known to have fallen out of favor with Our Lord toward the end of his life. It isn't surprising that Judas shows up in last place on all of the lists where he appears.
-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), February 13, 2003.
Great post, most informative, Mateo Muy Guapo! (Hope I said that correctly--I've forgotten most of my high school Spanish, having graduated over a quarter century ago!) Pax Christi.
-- Anna <>< (Flower@youknow.com), February 14, 2003.
Here is yet another link for Ric: http://www.kensmen.com/catholic/rock.html Many Scripture references for you Ric. The Truth will set you free. Pax Christi.
-- Anna <>< (Flower@youknow.com), February 14, 2003.
Ric, Here are a couple more. I could provide more, but these are strictly Scriptural, so I hope that you will appreciate them, and receive them and the Wisdom which they may impart to you. http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ112.HTM Pax Christi.
-- Anna <>< (Flower@youknow.com), February 14, 2003.