annulment denied ???

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we received a letter from the tribunal and they said based on the witnesses questionaires they do not support the questionaire my husband filled out so they are letting us know in advance that they do no forsee the anullment being granted. What do we do now?

-- Debbie Stith (RMMastiffs@aol.com), February 08, 2003

Answers

Response to annullment denied ???

Debbie - Sadly some dioceses still have their head in the 50's. Speak with a Canon Lawyer many found in convents and ask for guidance as tribunals are normally a male thing.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), February 08, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

Dear Debbie,

If the tribunal has determined that there are no valid grounds for annulment, then that is the final word. Annulments are not automaticly dispensed like divorces. In fact, annulments are granted all too freely in many if not most dioceses today, so when the finding of the men and women on the tribunal is "no valid grounds", then that finding very likely reflects the objective fact of the matter. A person in that situation, if he/she intends to remain in the Church of God, has two options - reconciliation with their spouse; or living celibate until the death of their spouse.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 09, 2003.


Response to annullment denied ???

well, you see we have been married for 5 years. He is getting an annullment from his cheating/abusive x-wife ... she is the one who is the cradle catholic. He converted and had the marriage blessed to make her happy, after the birth of their first child.... he goes to mass but if left up to him he is truly not a catholic at heart. He is making sounds as if to leave the church...Mean while we are living as brother and sister and following the rules and x-wife is out painting the town doing her "thing" and receiving the scarements... they were married 23 years and kept all there business behind closed doors. The only true witness they have is each other and there older daughter and the church says it is not enough...so do you turn Lutheran?

-- Debbie Stith (RMMastiffs@aol.com), February 09, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

If you want you can turn red or whatever. But to be faithful in marriage means to stay in the church that blessed you. What will you do when the Luteran church will ask you things you don't like? Go elsewhere?

-- (Dana98@rb.com), February 09, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

Dear Debbie,

Your statement that he is seeking annulment from "his cheating/abusive wife" suggests that he is requesting annulment on the grounds that she cheated and was abusive. Unfortunately, while that may constitute grounds for divorce, it is not grounds for annulment. Annulment deals only with situations existing at the time of the wedding, for it is then that a valid marriage either occurs or does not occur. If a valid marriage occurs at that time, then no problems which arise subsequently can render the marriage invalid. A valid Christian marriage, once formed, endures until the death of one of the spouses. Period. The only way a subsequent pattern of behavior could be relevant to the question of nullity would be as evidence that the individual, at the time of the wedding, was incapable of understanding or agreeing to the commitments of marriage, or had no intention of honoring such commitments from the start. However, if a couple lives a normal married life for ten or fifteen or twenty years, and then one of them commits adultery, the fact of that violation of marital vows will not invalidate the marriage. Therefore, if the Church does not reach a decision of nullity, the man you are living with does not have an "ex-wife", but a wife - a fact you will have to deal with, and a very difficult situation for you I am sure. Also, if one knows that the teaching of the Church is true and correct, yet leaves the Church in order to escape the effects of that right teaching, that person will still be accountable before God, according to the teaching he knows is right. You can't hide from God in another church.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 09, 2003.



Response to annullment denied ???

no our marriage has not been blessed. We are living as brother an sister. HIS & HIs X's marriage was blessed geesh read the whole post don't flame for no reason but it is getting hard on my husband...not me, I know I need to follow the rules of my god and church. Our priest says these things are easier on the woman. but now it looks like we will forever be "brother & sister" and I don't think my husband will go for that WOULD YOU? Debbie

-- Debbie Stith (RMMastiffs@aol.com), February 09, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

and remember he is not a cradle catholic and he only had a 3 hour session in in private not knowing the rules before he receive all 4 scacraments. As a matter of fact he "claims" he didn't know the marriage was being blessed when he was baptized, Ist comunion, and conformation.

-- Debbie Stith (RMMastiffs@aol.com), February 09, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

Re: brother and sister " marriage " speaks of tremndous denial of reality. How I ask do two indiviuals under the same roof of adult age do this and remain sane? " Reality reality reality - Oh for where art thou reality? "

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), February 10, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

I'm sure it's not easy, jean, but many people *have* managed it. St. Therese of Lisieux's parents lived that way for 10 months after their marriage, till they decided it was God's will for them to have children. Reality. :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), February 10, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

In March it will be 2 years. Debbie

-- Debbie Stith (RMMastiffs@aol.com), February 11, 2003.


Response to annullment denied ???

Hang in there Debbie!

Don't be discouraged. The finding of a Tribunal, even a negative finding can be appealed even to the Vatican, if needed.

What a tribunal is interested in is...what was the conditions at the TIME the marriage was founded through a civil or church wedding? Was the marriage at the time the vows were made sacramental?

Ask your sponsor...the priest or lay person who assisted you in the process to ask the tribunal to allow an ammendment to your petition.

You are allowed to see what your witnesses submitted. You can not coach a witness, but if there is information on your marriage that another witness may corroborate, see if that witness can be added.

Good luck and God Bless.

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), February 11, 2003.


Response to annullment denied ???

I think I will buy those 2 new cars and drive in tandem. Nothing to loose that way. Thank you!

-- Debbie Stith (RMMastiffs@aol.com), February 12, 2003.

Response to annullment denied ???

You should not be living with your "husband" at all. If he is not annulled he is not your husband. Unless you have minor children together you have no compelling greater good to justify the bro'sis act. Even that greater good is on queasy standing considering that the Church now teaches that there are two equal ends of marriage, the good of the spouses and the having/raising of children. The Church practice is behind its theology on that one. I think.

-- karl (parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

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