Mixed Marriagegreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread
My Girlfriend and I would like to get married. I am a catholic and she belongs to the Calvary Chapel a non denomenational church. We have discussed getting married in a Catholic church. Is is possible to have a interfaith marriage? What are the guidlines for this? Please advise.
Thank you Anthony Granaldi
-- Anthony Granaldi (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 18, 2002
The answer would depend a great deal on whether you intend to continue as a practicing Catholic. Is your girlfriend willing to agree to raising your children as Catholics?
-- Christine L. :-) (email@example.com), December 18, 2002.
Yes, interfaith marriages are allowed (though not advised), and are quite common. Talk to your parish priest. Most will be helpful in such matters. If the priest you talk to doesn't seem entirely open to this, talk to a different priest, or call your diocesan office of marital affairs (a curious name, I always thought). Some dioceses call it something else - Office of Family Life, or whatever. It should be listed under "Diocese of ... " in the phonebook. I hope it works out well for you. Nothing you said suggests that it shouldn't.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 19, 2002.
PLEASE, MAKE SURE YOU'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING!!! I am a devout Catholic in a mixed marriage. I though my wife loved me, but within weeks of our marriage she stopped loving me, or stopped acting. She agreed to get a dispensation from the bishop; she agreed to let me raise our children Catholic; I thought she respected my faith; but it was all a HUGE LIE! She even told me that when we got married, she expected me to convert to her church. It's a so-called non- denominational church. There's no such thing! It's just a little denomination in itself; and quite anti-catholic. This is supposed to be a church, and they teach her to hate her husband. She has called me everything from a 'false prophet', because I can quote scripture, to 'self righteous'. This from a person who claims to know she's going to heaven, no matter if she keeps her vows to God and me, or not. But, this is what protestants learn. There is no conciquence for sin, because 'I have accepted Jesus as my savior, I know I'm going to heaven'. Examples: my wife constantly tells me that she doesn't love me; when I show her in the Bible why her actions are wrong, she agrees with me, but tells me that she doesn't care; she uses contraception and thinks there is nothing wrong with it, even though we haven't made love in months; she threatens me with divorce anytime I try to say or do anything that she doesn't like; the list goes on and on. I wish I could warn you further, but she just came home, so I gotta go. Don' think I'm spineless. I just don't want to be living in the sin of divorce for the rest of my life, and I don't want my son raised in some false christianity that teaches hate. I must bare my cross patiently, and give thanks to God for the oppertunity to suffer.
Please pray about the decision ahead of you, and please pray for my marriage as well.
God Bless you, Tom
-- Tom (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 19, 2002.
This is a shocking post. How can we ever understand your pain and disappointment? I'll be praying for you.
This really is across you're bearing. but you must have hope. Not despair; because if you have faith, God will bring you happiness again. Don't give up.
Find a catholic counsellor. If you can, speak with a priest and inquire about annulling the marriage to this woman.
She married in the Catholic faith under false pretenses. Her intent was not to be a wife. Now that she's revealed it, she is de facto divorcing you. You don't have to accept it. Try to get help. Don't say anything in advance to her. She will make plans to defeat you under examination. You can't give her warning; just apply with your diocese for a decree of nullity. Explain the circumstances, and be honest. If you gave cause for her rebellion, confess that too. Let the chips fall where the may. God is on your side. Have faith; and don't give in to hatred; no matter how badly you're tempted. Keep in mind how Our Lord suffered under injustices. He loves you now more than ever!
-- eugene c. chavez (email@example.com), December 20, 2002.
What a tragedy! Tom, my heart goes out to you, and I will take you before Jesus in our adoration chapel tomorrow.
Eugene, I agree with almost everything you wrote to Tom. But there is one area of special difficulty. He cannot approach the Church to determine if a Declaration of Nullity is possible until after he has gone through a civil divorce (i.e., a permanent separation). [This, I have read, is the Church's rule, to prevent the other spouse from suing the Church for "alienating" the affections of the petitioner.]
The complication for Tom is that he and his "wife" have a son. ("I don't want my son raised in some false christianity that teaches hate. ") If the couple get a divorce, the woman is more likely to get custody, and the boy will be raised in a bad environment. Therefore, Tom will bravely persevere, not divorcing until his son grows up and leaves "the nest." ("I must bare my cross patiently, and give thanks to God for the oppertunity to suffer.") This heroic man gives good example to us all.
God bless you.
PS: The act of divorce (permanent separation) is not, in and of itself, a sin. There are circumstances in which the Church does not condemn it. The new Catechism teaches us: "2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law. If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense."
-- J. F. Gecik (firstname.lastname@example.org), December 20, 2002.
Thank you Eugene, for your hopes and prayers. But I am afraid that John is right; I would have to be divorced before applying for a Declaration of Nullity.
Thank you John for the clarification of Church teaching. I was not aware of the circumstance that you pointed out. But please do not call me heroic. I am just a sinner in great need of God's merciful graces. I always try to set a good example. It's the only way I have of showing my wife what true love of Christ is supposed to lood like. We very rarely speak, and if I try to instruct her, I get threatened. So, I can only teach her through example. This is not heroic. It's just what any christian would do, who really loved his wife and wanted her to know the love of Christ.
Please keep my wife and I in your prayers; especially before the Blessed Sacriment.
-- Tom (email@example.com), December 20, 2002.
I am currently dating a protestant girl whose father is in the Orange Order. I truly love this girl but she has already stated that any children we have are to be raised Protestant. I really don't want to lose her but what can i do. My family would not be happy at all. I feel so mixed up.
-- david mc gibbon (firstname.lastname@example.org), January 06, 2003.
Hello, David M. There is no need to be "mixed up." Take a deep breath, say a prayer, and read this ...
You stated: "My family would not be happy at all [about your children being raised protestant."
David M., your family is not going to marry her. You are going to marry her.
So, ask yourself: in which faith do you want your children to be raised? If (as I hope) you wish to raise them to be Catholic, then pray for the courage to walk away from the relationship today. God will help you to find a good Catholic woman.
Do you realize, David M., that, when you become engaged, you must promise to the Church that you will not lose your Catholic faith and that you will do everything in your power to raise your children as Catholics? Your fiance, if non-Catholic, will not have to make this promise, but she will be aware of the fact that you made it. Please consider the implications now.
God bless you.
-- J. F. Gecik (email@example.com), January 06, 2003.
Why in God's name would you post this question on a Catholic website? What would you expect to hear?!
I was once in the seminary but left because of celibacy issues. I thank the dear Lord for opening my eyes to the non-denominational faith! I now realize that the catholic religion has many man-made rules that didn't originate in the bible. I suggest studying the bible my dear friend and take it for what it is truly worth. And please, ask this question regarding interfaith marriage to an impartial party. Personally, in this day and age, I would have many concerns about any religion that has such a high incidence of sexual misconduct and homosexuality. Please seek an impartial,and independent counsel. It sounds like you need some help. My prayers are with you my friend.
-- John Paul Alabrozinski (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 25, 2003.
Dear John Paul,
The fact is, no teaching of the true Christian Church originated in the Bible, because Jesus gave the Apostles the truths they were to teach, by word of mouth. The Church taught them for more than 350 years before the Bible was compiled. Therefore, the teaching of the New Testament came out of the teaching of the True Church, not the other way around. In contrast, the teaching of so-called "non-denominational" Protestant denominations, as well as other Protestant denominations, is the product of personal guesses as to the meaning of biblical texts - an untenable manmade tradition guaranteed to result in untruth, and in thousands of conflicting sects, just as it has. Jesus founded His Church on the ROCK, and that's where I'll stay, not on the shifting sands of denominational religion.
P.S. If you happen to know a religion whose members do not have "a high incidence" of sin, please name it, and I'll sign up today.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 25, 2003.
The fact is, the teaching of the true Christian Church originated from letters and scrolls written by the Apostles who were Jews. These leters and scrolls were compiled and became the Bible. You say "Jesus gave the Apostles the truths they were to teach, by word of mouth".Did you ever play whisper down the lane.The truth compleatly changes 10 people later. What do you think happened to it 350 years later!!! You say "Therefore, the teaching of the New Testament came out of the teaching of the True Church, not the other way around." You count on what man says. Passed on year after year changed and twisted by inperfect man. You say "the teaching of so-called "non- denominational" Protestant denominations, as well as other Protestant denominations, is the product of personal guesses as to the meaning of biblical texts. In fact the protestants count on what God said from the teachings of Gods word, the Bible. In contrast to use your own words, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is an untenable manmade tradition guaranteed to result in untruth, and in thousands of conflicting sects, just as it has. Jesus founded His Church on the ROCK, and that Rock was a Jew. His words were written down so as not to be changed over the years by perverts and child molesters that's where I'll stay, not on the shifting sands of the CATHOLIC religion.
-- J.C. Faust (JC4798@aol.com), April 27, 2003.
"In fact the protestants count on what God said from the teachings of Gods word, the Bible".
Hmmmm. So God said what Lutherans teach, and God said what Baptists teach, and God said what Adventists teach, and God said what Pentacostals teach; but Lutherans don't believe what Baptists think God said, and Baptists don't believe what Methodists think God said, and Methodists ... Really, it's just too confusing for me. Doctrinal chaos is not God's way. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit of order, not confusion. Protestantism is indeed Whisper down the Lane, compounded by an unbiblical belief in the right to personal interpretation - and the results are exactly as you described. In fact, the Catholic Church counts on what God said in the Bible. The Catholic Church can do that because they have the means of knowing what God did in fact say, a gift which was not endowed upon any other church.
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 27, 2003.
I realize that you want to believe in the catholic religion because that is what you have been taught and programmed to believe. As a matter of fact, The catholic religion has programmed catholics to believe that it is a sin to believe otherwise. Let's see, hmmmm, it's a sin to not go to confession, it is a sin not to go to church, it is a sin to not contribute money to the catholic faith, it's a sin to eat meat during lent, and so on and so on and so on and so on.... The catholics worship not God, or God's word, but rather a RELIGION created by man. Keep in mind Jesus was a Jew. Where in the bible does it say that it is a sin, or that you are not supposed to eat meat on Fridays during lent? You see, there is only one God, and no perfect religion. Catholics have changed the bible according to what they believe. If this were the perfect religion, then there wouldn't be such a high incidence of sin amongst God's "so called" chosen: Priests and Nuns (who are a dying breed by the way). I do see, however, that the bible says it is a sin to gamble and find it odd that almost every catholic church that I know of organizes bus trips to go to Atlantic City and other gambling arenas. Did you know that many years ago priests were allowed to marry, but the religion, rather the CATHOLIC religion realized that married people could procreate, and found that money wasn't being recycled back in to the church, the Catholic church that is, and so, it came to pass that Preists and nuns were prohibited from marrying. You see now there are no children, no husbands or wives, and the money gets left to the catholic church to do "God's work"(yea right). Man (priests and nuns are HUMAN) this is why there is a high incidence of sexual immorality in this religion. No, there is no perfect religion, but it is a fact that the catholic religion has the highest incidence of homosexuality and pedofiles. I don't know what is worse the problem just mentioned, or the long known attempt to cover it up! You see the choice made by the catholic church (not God) for priests and nuns not to marry originated from greed and evil intent to hoard money. This my friend is why skepticism grows amongst those who are open minded and amongst those who are smart enough to look at the bible and study it for what it is worth. My point is that the catholic religion is absolutely NO better than any other religion. Why in the world would I confess my sins to another human being when I can kneel before God and confess my sins to him directly. May the spirit of God minister to you and set you free from false beliefs.
-- Maryjo South (MaryJo@hotmail.com), April 29, 2003.
Folks, let's take a look at what Maryjo says. I will quote some of her sentences. I will give them numbers so that I can refer to them very quickly afterwards.
1. The catholic religion has programmed catholics to believe that it is a sin to believe otherwise.
2. The catholics worship not God, or God's word, but rather a RELIGION created by man.
3. Catholics have changed the bible according to what they believe.
4. If this were the perfect religion, then there wouldn't be such a high incidence of sin amongst God's "so called" chosen: Priests and Nuns (who are a dying breed by the way).
5. the bible says it is a sin to gamble and find it odd that almost every catholic church that I know of organizes bus trips to go to Atlantic City and other gambling arenas.
6. the CATHOLIC religion realized that married people could procreate, and found that money wasn't being recycled back in to the church, the Catholic church that is, and so, it came to pass that Preists and nuns were prohibited from marrying. ... You see the choice made by the catholic church (not God) for priests and nuns not to marry originated from greed and evil intent to hoard money.
7. it is a fact that the catholic religion has the highest incidence of homosexuality and pedofiles.
Item #1 says that we Catholics are "programmed" by the Church. This is the slur used by anti-Catholic bigots who pretend that the Church is a secretive cult. Because Westerners are justifiably afraid of getting mixed up in true cults (e.g., the loonies who had that commune up in the Northwest with Baghwan Shree Rajneesh), the anti-Catholics try to put paint the Church with the same colors. Naturally, they are totally dishonest because they know that Catholics are free to come and go as they please, and no one forces anyone to believe anything. No one is "programmed."
But is Maryjo herself programmed by anti-Catholics [Fundies or otherwise]? I won't go so far as to say that. But a glance at points 2 through 7 will reveal that she has been memorizing from the list of hellish, oft-quoted lies about what Catholics do and believe.
Responses to the falsehoods:
1. Catholicism does no programming. 2. Catholics worship God alone. 3. Catholics formed and preserved the Bible. Catholics wrote the New Testament. Catholics never "changed" the Bible. Non-Catholics use an incomplete Bible, having deleted some inspired books. 4. No one ever claimed perfection among Catholics. Priests and nuns are not a "dying breed." The overall number of sisters has diminished but the best congregations/orders are growing and new ones are being founded. 5. The Bible does not condemn gambling as sinful. Most Catholic churches do not organize bus trips. 6. This fiction is so outlandish that I need not even reply. 7. The rates for these abnormalities are, at worst, equal to society in general -- and more likely lower.
Besides the above falsehoods, I could add some of the theological errors found in her message:
1. Where in the bible does it say that it is a sin, or that you are not supposed to eat meat on Fridays during lent? [Sola Scriptura]
2. This my friend is why skepticism grows amongst those who are open minded and amongst those who are smart enough to look at the bible and study it for what it is worth. My point is that the catholic religion is absolutely NO better than any other religion. [Sola Scriptura and religious indifference]
3. Why in the world would I confess my sins to another human being when I can kneel before God and confess my sins to him directly. [Ignorance of scripture on forgiveness of sins]
Let us pray that Maryjo escapes from the morass of error and lies into which she has fallen.
-- J. F. Gecik (email@example.com), April 30, 2003.
You need to meet some Catholics. You might find those to be different than your impression of what they are like. Even we "estranged" Catholics are astonished by your impressions. I am sorry if you experience has only been with "cafateria" Catholics ( said at the risk of being one myself) who do not even know or try to find out what they believe in and live by it. Please do not think this is said to attack you, it is not. It is just my simple and honest reaction to what you posted.
-- Karl (firstname.lastname@example.org), April 30, 2003.
A very interesting web site. I am a Catholic and do believe and follow the truths taught by the church. What the protestants need to keep in mind is ANY truth they have concerning Christianity came from the Catholic faith. The Protestant Reform is something that happened as the result of a fallen away Catholic Priest named Luther. He did have some mental problems and slept around. I think this contributed to his guilt and need to "change the rules" of the true church because he felt he would be damned. However, the Bible (first english version came from the Catholic Church). One other thing, any un-truths the protestants have did not come from the Catholic church but from trying to "make it up as one goes along". As a student of the bible I continue to see the Catholic Church evolve in the new testament. I love my faith and hope our Lord opens others hearts who are not Catholics but are involved in the Schism/heracy that has plagued Christianity since Martin Luther decided to re-write Christian Doctrine and plague untutored minds with a lie called reform. God Bless, Steve
-- steven S. (email@example.com), June 15, 2003.