I'm legally divorced - was I ever married? Can I remarry?

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Hello. I've got quite a complicated situation here, so I'll just try to stick to the essentials.

I've been raised a Baptist, but I've never been baptised. I married a man in the fall of 2000, and our divorce became final in the summer of 2002. This man was technically catholic (I *think* he was baptised), though he never went to church nor did he respect religion (he was into *bad* things).

Before we started dating, this man was married for about 12 years and had 2 children. His first divorce became final in the spring of 2000. He did not seek an annullment or anything of the sort from the church for his first marriage.

We were going to marry in a catholic church, but the priest told us that we had to wait at least one year from the date of his divorce, then seek approval from the church for us to get married. He didn't like this, so we had a Baptist minister marry us in a garden in the fall of 2000.

I felt obligated to marry this man - I felt that I had to because he didn't have anyone else. I didn't think that I had a choice - I was stupid.

This man lied about wanting to have children with me - before we were married, he told me that he wanted to have children with me. He later told me that he NEVER wanted to have children with me.

First question: In God's eyes, was I married to this man?

My divorce became final in the summer of 2002, and I met the most amazing man. He is a catholic and has never been married. We have been talking quite seriously about getting married and having children.

Second question: Can I marry this man in the Catholic church after I convert?

Thank you for your responses.

-- poober (poober2000@yahoo.ca), December 17, 2002

Answers

It sounds to me like you have a good case for an annulment. However, please understand that none of us here can tell you for sure - your best bet is to go to a priest you trust and ask him, because he can help you get the process started. And the sooner you get it started the sooner you can (God willing!) marry the man you love!

God bless and good luck! :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), December 17, 2002.


Christine is certainly right. Even someone well versed in canonical law regarding marriage could not give you a definite answer from the information you provided. Several important bits of information are lacking. There are several points that suggest you may well be free to marry, including your lack of baptism at the time of marriage; his apparent lack of appreciation of what a real marriage entails (and perhaps yours as well); the fact of marriage under circumstantial pressures; and the fact of deliberate deception regarding a primary function of marriage, namely having children. The particulars of his first marriage would also have to be examined. If he was validly married to his first wife, then he was not free to marry you, and you were never truly married to him. The fact of his divorce does not change this. You do need to seek guidance from official sources though, in sorting this out. If you are converting to Catholicism, you will probably be taking the RCIA classes. The instructors in those classes, though they may not be able to answer all your questions directly, should be able to refer you to the right people to get the help you need. I teach RCIA classes, and marital situations are the most common type of difficulty presented by people taking the classes.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 17, 2002.

You are a good person. May God Bless you. I beleive you were married but if it just did not work out, then, I thgink you just have to move on. I am sure that God understands why you had to divorce a jerk like him. As an understanding man, let me say that a lot of men are real trash. Not all of them but you really have to get to know the person. First of all, if he did not really care about churchm, then he is not worth it. Just to be with your spouse and share things together is what its all about so you made the right decision. I hop you will find s good man.

-- Guillermo Quintero (Willie5@emelec.com), December 17, 2002.

Hello, Poober and Paul.

Paul, I agree with almost everything you told poober. But there is one (apparent) fact that, when brought before the marriage tribunal, may prove to be a factor that would hasten Poober's freedom to marry. I'm referring to the (apparent) facts (1) that Poober's "husband" was initially married in a Catholic ceremony and (2) that, after divorce but without a Declaration of Nullity and (apparently) without defecting from Catholicism, he attempted marriage to Poober outside of canonical form.

If the facts are really as I have just summarized them, it would appear that his attempt to marry Poober was automatically invalid (lacking in form) and that the tribunal would be able to make this fairly rapid finding without even having to delve into his original marriage. This would then leave Poober free to marry for the first time in her life.

Have you had a real-life experience as a deacon of exactly the same scenario -- but in which the tribunal chose to evaluate the man's first marriage, seemingly without need?

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 18, 2002.




-- (_@_._), December 18, 2002.


Thank you all for your responses. I was rather afraid of what the responses might be to my original posting, but I feel more at ease with taking this to the Church.

Just to clarify, the facts have been correctly summarized in the preceding responses. Thank you again for your concern.

-- poober (poober2000@yahoo.ca), December 18, 2002.


Dear poober,

I am sure God will bless you for seeking His will in your life. I will pray for you and your beloved, and trust that God will bring you both much happiness in your relationship with each other, and with Him.

Peace! Paul

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 18, 2002.


Dear John,

Yes, if the situation is just as you described, then she is certainly free to marry, and the tribunal should quickly render that decision. That is what I was referring to when I said "If he was validly married to his first wife, then he was not free to marry you, and you were never truly married to him". The only conceivable reason to explore his first marriage would be to rule out the possibility that his first marriage was invalid, even though not officially declared so. However, in practice, such an effort would likely be beyond the capability or authority of the tribunal, and in the unavailability of evidence proving invalidity, they would have to assume validity, thereby concomitantly assuming invalidity for his marriage to poober, for just the reasons you stated. Either way, I believe she has solid grounds for remarriage in the Church; the Church however will have to make that determination officially.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 18, 2002.


Thank you very much, Paul.
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 18, 2002.

Poober- Read 1 Corinthians 7 for God's view on remarriage. Says that someone whose unbelieving spouse LEFT THEM is "not under bondage" any more. The Bible says that the only people not free to remarry are those who betray a spouse by infidelity, or by rejecting and leaving them (and that can mean emotionally too). The offended spouse is free to remarry. That's what the Bible says.

-- VeraP (verap1@earthlink.net), December 26, 2002.


Poober, you need to ignore what Vera tells you. She is a Baptist, and she apparently does not know that this is a Catholic forum. Her advice is bad.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 26, 2002.

This subject is extremely common on this forum. Here is a lengthy thread from eighteen months or so ago which I contributed too:

Annulment Thread

-- Joe (nonvalidaddress@h.com), December 26, 2002.


I am NOT a baptist. I attend a nondenominational Christian church, a body of sweet, loving, faithful believers in scripture and in Jesus Christ.

-- VeraP (verap1@earthlink.net), December 27, 2002.

Dear Vera,

There is no such thing as a nondenominational church. A church is defined by a body of doctrinal belief. That is what makes a Baptist church different from a Methodist church or an Anglican church. And that is what makes your church different from these others. If you don't think your church has a specific body of doctrinal belief, try getting up and voicing a belief that differs from that of the pastor. He dictates what you believe and what you don't believe. He determines which doctrines will define your private little denomination. Of course, his decisions are simply human preferences, totally without any real authority; but that is true of all denominations, not just those which choose to remain independent.

In Christ, Paul

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 27, 2002.


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