Starting the new thread. I've lost more weight. The new scale is almost to where the old scale was when I got the new one. I hope that made sense. Anyway, my official weighing day is Sunday, so I can't count it yet . . .

I have been finding that I get hungrier when I don't eat veggies (low carb type), despite being able to eat plenty of meat. The PPLP book sez you don't really NEED to have carbohydrates, but eating less than 40 g a day won't affect your losing, so why not eat them. Well, I guess I do need them. So that's my current goal, eat veggies at lunch and dinner (probably not breakfast, that seems a bit repulsive to me). I'm not a big fan of veggies, except, of course, the ones I'm not supposed to have.

I want to make lasagna. I got a spaghetti squash that I want to use as a substitute for the lasagna noodles. I haven't made lasagna in years, so I have to look up my recipes again. Any thoughts from anyone? I plan to pre-bake and shred the squash. I haven't cooked that in a long time either -- is it pretty "juicy"? I'm thinking I probably should blot off as much moisture/liquid as possible before puting it in the dish to keep the lasagna from being too runny. I think I'd better make a small one, since this is going to be an experiment. Layer it like this? Meat sauce, squash, cheese mixture, meat sauce, squash, cheese mixture, meat sauce, cheese on top?

-- Anonymous, November 01, 2002

Answers

Way to go Joy! (even though it's still not official, LOL)

That's what Atkins says too about carbs. So eat your veggies. You might as well eat them. Actually many people who do similar programs say that you can slow things down by NOT eating them. Your lasagna idea sounds great. Let us know how it turns out.

I took my 8 wk pics yesterday and I was bummed the whole rest of the day. I was ready to QUIT (PMS!). Still no obvious changes (smaller stomach, smaller arms, but nothing very muscular). I consulted with someone from the gym and a few people from the BFL board and have decided that I may actually need to eat MORE food. I refigured everything yesterday and my body fat was around where I thought it probably was (28%,I only lost 3% in 8 wks, only 4 wks. to go on this challenge) and my LBM has increased but only by 3 lbs (it's now about 88 lbs.). My weight(123) is right in the middle of my appropriate BMI range. But in order to gain more LBM, I'm going to have to eat more(feed the muscle) and then the increased LBM should start to burn the fat. This may end up taking more time than I thought and will not really reflect any weight loss for awhile (my goal was 116 and 20% body fat, that's where I was 12 yrs. ago). I was also advised to fully enjoy my free day. Up until now I've only let myself have maybe one or two goodies on Sunday. Jim has said all along that I was being too strict. But I thought I would get faster results that way. Then I could loosen up a bit and enjoy free day and such. I haven't eaten even one piece of Halloween candy. That's a first! LOL! But you better believe you me that I'm going to have some tomorrow. I think the kids feel sorry for me. LOL! They went trick or treating 2x this year. My Grandma's nursing facility had a trick or treat night and then the local one on Halloween. They each(3 kids) have a BIG bag full. Good stuff too! I'm talking about a lot of full size candy bars!

Enough about me! I can't wait to hear how the rest of you are doing.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2002

Joy, I've never made lasagna with it (good idea!) but we often use spaghetti squash in place of spaghetti. It's really quite good, as weird as it sounds. Has a toothsome quality. I havent found it to be too terrible watery, but I would agree you should let the shredded squash drain well first.I've also used beans (like great northerns) in place of spaghetti. Course the flavor of these dishes is mainly in how good the sauce and cheese is!

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2002

I've mostly been a pasta-hater all my life. But for SOME reason, I've always liked lasagna. I think part of it is that there is some sort of difference in the meat and sauce than with spaghetti sauce. I hate spaghetti sauce even without the pasta! (yeah, I know, I'm practically un-American!). Hate macaroni too. Oh well, in this case it's mutual -- it hates me too. LOL! I think there's some difference in the lasagna noodles too. When I used to make it, I used whole wheat noodles. I almost always like whole-wheat anything way better than refined wheat flour. Even cake! But I've forgotten everything I knew about making lasagna meat sauce and have to go restudy. I swear I used to be able to make it from memory, no recipe. {sigh}

Hey, for those of you who don't mind the carbs or calories or fat grams (whatever), I am very fond of "Mexican lasagna" -- basically, you don't use tomato sauce but prepare the meat with taco meat seasoning (meat can be ground beef, shredded beef, or shredded chicken -- I suppose, even turkey). You layer corn tortillas (I guess you could use flour, I just don't like them) in with the meat mixture and a mixture of cottage cheese/cheddar cheese (or cottage/cheddar/jack). And of course the top layers should be meat with just the hard cheeses sprinkled on top. If anyone thinks this sounds majorly delicious but don't want to procede without a recipe, let me know, and I'll see if I can find the recipe for exact amounts. I've added a layer of refried beans to it in the past, or served them on the side. Can put in chiles too (too spicy for me, but I know lots of people like them). I think it was 12 - 6" tortillas, 1# meat (with taco seasoning), 1.5 cups cottage cheese, and a similar amount of hard cheese. It's very tasty -- but usually doesn't fit into a diet regime. I'll have to think about modifying it to my current plan and see if I can work it out.

I'm a seat-of-my-pants type cook, particularly when it comes to meats, stews, casseroles, etc. I do carefully follow recipes when it's baked goods, but otherwise, I do what seems good to me. I like to decide on my own spices and herbs and the amounts too. And in times past, I've often substituted rice for pasta/noodles.

Well, I had a bit of shock yesterday. My acupuncturist, upon hearing that I am limited to <40 g carb per day declared that I'm on a starvation diet! This both P-O'd me and alarmed me! So I sat down and added up my calories from yesterday. I came up with 1500 calories. Do you think that sounds like STARVATION? Remember, I am only 5'3" tall, plus I have lots of fat reserves to use up. Hmpf!

The acupuncturist has not read the book. She said she would if I lost weight following the plan. I wonder how much I'll have to lose before she'll read it . . . .

She thinks my blood sugar will get too low and my pancreas will suffer. I'm willing to add in a few more carbs in the form of veggies -- some winter squash, stuff like that. Especially since I can have butter on it. I may try letting my carbs go up a bit, perhaps closer to the transition level. Maybe so I also come in around 1800 calories? Tweak, tweak!

Sherri, I espied you on the lowcarbfriends.com board, but haven't seen Vicki yet. I haven't posted much on the PP board.

-- Anonymous, November 02, 2002

I did fairly well on my goal to eat more veggies. I had spinach with lunch. That was pretty funny -- I filled the steamer with the leaves and when it was done, there couldn't have been more than a quarter of a cup! Next time, I'll really cram them in there. Might have to use a larger pan so the steamer can open up and hold more . . . I didn't buy the large leafed spinach bunch (it was looking wilted), I got a bag of the small, tender "salad" spinach. It really made a difference in taste! I think the younger stuff must be lower in oxalic acid.

Haven't tried my lasagna idea yet. Got sidetracked making bird food instead. I took out some more exercise books from the library, but haven't had time to look at them yet.

-- Anonymous, November 03, 2002

Joy, what about using sliced eggplant instead of noodles? Sort of a cross between lasagne and eggplant parmesan? I think that sliced zucchini would be tasty too. I know what you mean about steamed spinach! When my brother used to work on the truck farm he'd bring home spinach in a giant crate for me. I love steamed spinach! :)

Denise, are you figuring your % body fat using calipers or one of those body fat scales? I don't own a scale right now and since I'm going to have to buy one I've been thinking about getting one of the fancy models that does body fat too. Anyone have any experience with them?

I got a couple more books from the library this weekend, "The Carbohydrate Addicts Diet" and "The Protein Power Lifeplan". I've already ruled out the carbohydrate addicts diet; I'm afraid their 'reward meal' would just send me into a binge. I'm reading Protein Power Lifeplan right now, I think I may transition to this plan eventually. Their theory on prehistoric man's switch to agriculture due to the addictive nature of grains is interesting. The chapter on leaky gut was interesting too. I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome 4 years ago but the only dietary recommendations the doctor gave me was to drink metamucil daily and to stop eating iceberg lettuce. He didn't say anything about grains.

I'm having the blood tests drawn on Thursday of this week and I don't want to make any major dietary changes before then, so in the interim I'm going to work on cutting back on Diet Mt Dew. Right now I'm averaging 5-6 cans a day.

Vicki usually posts on the Downsizers Challenge thread on the lowcarbfriends board. I haven't seen her post there or at Homesteading Today in several days so she must not be on-line much this week. It's funny to read that forum, there's a certain group that always yelling about threads being deleted by the moderators and censorship and free speech, just like the old Countryside forum. I guess human nature is the same all over.

Earthmama, maybe you can help me out with this one. My vegetarian friend Liz is simply horrified that I'm going on a higher- protein/lower-carb diet. She says that I'm raping the earth by eating animal products, the rainforests are disappearing to make room for cows, it takes too much land and water to grow feed for cattle, etc. I need a good rebuttal for her, other than pointing out how much land and water it takes to grow the tobacco for her cigarettes! :)

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2002

No problem, Sherri!

Ask her this: how does the advocacy of widespread vegetarianism help to heal the earth? What is her plan? I would love to hear it.

There is simply no way I have ever heard to grow massive amounts of animal protein substitutes without enviromental disaster! This country is already covered with vast fields of monoculture, be it corn or other grains, cotton, or soybeans, and this style of agriculture is spreading throughout the world. It includes by its very nature, massive amounts of fossil fuels to feed the giant machinery required, and untold amounts of petrochemical fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides and fungicides. This style of agriculture DESTROYS farmland, leads to erosion and the death of soil. Remember the dust bowl days? Soil thus abused no longer is a life-giving system, but merely a medium for the growth of inferior plants, hugely deficient in all the micronutrients necessary to sustain health.

Some will counter that soybeans can be grown organically. Well, yes, anything can be grown organically. BUT, in order for that to be done, the farmer must use natural fertilizers, to begin with. That means MANURE! Green manures can be used, to be sure, but utilizing green manuring systems on a commercial scale is an option few farmers would choose, because it ties up costly farmland, and requires excellent organizational skills.

I would be the last person to defend anything remotely connected to factory farming, and vegetarians love to put forth the issue as if those are the only two choices. Well they're not; the real paradigm for healing the earth, our health, our economy, our national security, saving rural communities and family farms, is this: thousands and thousands of small, sustainable, grass-based, rotational-grazed, diversified, direct-marketed farms spread throughout the country, and near cities, growing food for those who are nearby. We do not need beef from south america; let them grow beef for south americans and stop cutting down forests for our corporate greed.

Cattle, when managed properly, need an amazingly little bit of land to prosper. THEY DONT NEED ANY LAND FOR GRAIN, CUZ THEY DONT NEED ANY GRAIN! And when they eat grass, as they were designed to do, they use way less water than when fed an unnatural, unhealthful for them and us, diet. Not only that, but properly managed grazing systems IMPROVE the land they graze, just like buffalo did on the prairies. I know this for a fact, not only from reading about it for years, but from my own personal experience. I saw my pastureland turn from an overgrazed (one big area grazed by milk cows for 30 years) bunch of weeds into a beautiful, lush, field of legumes, grasses and wildflowers. It works, and its a beautiful thing!

Let me know if you need any more help! I am in my element on this subject! :)

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2002

Sherri, you probably already know this, but why are you drinking DIET mt dew? You'd way way better off drinking the regular one, if you had to choose. Not only cuz aspartame is nasty bad, but because it makes you fatter! :<

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2002

E.M....Sure wish you'd run for President....:-)!!! Really!

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2002

Thanks for that essay, EM. I'll probably be able to use it.

Sherri, PPLP encourages us to eat organic (vegetable matter) and naturally raised foods (meat) -- without getting preachy or militant about it. My own opinion is that my conscience squares better with food raised that way. As EM points out, conventionally raised vegetable matter is not all that earth-friendly either. Then there is the question of whether or not we just have excess population, but I won't get on that hobby horse here . . . .

Has anyone heard of the DHA Omega-3 eggs (Gold Circle Farms)? I found some at one of the local natural food stores. Previously, I had been getting organic brown eggs (I just have a preference for seeing brown shells!), which I thought were notably better than "regular" eggs. Well the Gold Circle Farms eggs have even deeper colored yolks. That orange color that people talk about. They're good. I don't know if I would keep chickens even if I had the land. I'm a little afraid I'm already sensitized to their allergens. :-(

As far as eggplant goes, I don't like the stuff. And I'm not supposed to eat it either. I have to be careful with the nightshade family, and considering that, tomatoes get the vote every time. They also seem to affect me the least. I had some yellow summer squash (crookneck?) with dinner. THAT was very good. It might be something I could use in a casserole. Spaghetti squash is a weird thing. Julie says it more like a winter squash than a summer squash, yet I think it has many characteristics of summer squash. Carb-wise, it's more like winter squash though.

So, EM, what do you have to say about Splenda (sucralose)? I confess, I have been using some of it. So far, nothing has been proven to be harmful about it, but I realize the chance is there. I also use stevia, and just recently got the liquid instead of the powder. I think the liquid is much better -- no bitter aspect. I wish they'd bring back cyclamates. I don't think I would use enough to actually be harmful to me. If I lived near the Canadian border, I'd go up there and buy it. I wonder how much it would cost to have it shipped . . . . I won't use aspartame or saccharine (such as Sweet 'n' Low) -- yuck!

-- Anonymous, November 04, 2002

Sherri, so true about the claims of censorship, etc. I thought the same thing. Oh, and I totally agree with EM. Get that diet soda out of your life. That's baaaaad stuff. You'll feel much better without it. I got rid of it and couldn't believe the difference in how I felt when I replaced it with water.

Although not as accurate as calipers I have been using the free linear bodyfat calculator at www.linear-software.com/online.html . You can enter caliper measurements or simply enter key tape measurements such as neck, waist, and hips along with weight and age. These sites can vary wildly from one another but from what was discusssed on the BFL board at lowcarb friends, they said this linear one seems to be most in step with their caliper results they have had done elsewhere.

Yes, EM, what do you think about Splenda? I have been using it fairly often as well for baking. I heard the chemicals used in the processing are questionable. Do you know anything about it?

Joy, I read that the Omega eggs are a good source of EFA's. That's all I know. I have been considering starting to supplement EFA's but when I tried once before but it gave me the runs. I tried splitting the dose but then it gave me 2 bouts of the runs instead of one blowout. Does it take time to adjust to this in your diet? I am considering it again as I have been told that your metabolism doesn't work as well when you are low on them. anyone know about EFA's?

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Thanks EM, I knew I could count on you! That's basically what I said to her but you expressed it a lot better than I did. I think I'll just print out your response and have it laminated on a card, then whenever anyone gives me any grief I can just hand them the card and say "What she said" :)

I've been drinking Diet Mt Dew for about 15 years, ever since it was test marketed up in the UP. Regular Mt Dew tastes too sweet to me now. I actually gave it up completely for a while last year but I didn't notice any difference so I started drinking it again. Why do you say it will make me fatter than regular Dew? Keith drinks Diet Dew mixed 50/50 with strawberry-kiwi fruit juice, is that better or worse?

Denise, I plugged my measurements into that body fat calculator and I think that I officially qualify as a big tub of goo. It came out 42%! I'm almost half fat, aaahhhhh!

I guess the % bodyfat figure helps to explain the embarassing incident I had last Friday night. I have come to the realization over the past few weeks that my physical relationship with Keith had become a bit stale. It's not bad, just the same old routine that two busy people who have been together for almost 6 years fall into. So I decided on Friday night that I would take the initiative to spice things up a bit. My plan was to forego the usual 'granny panties' that I wear to bed and to instead wear a pair of 'fancy panties' that I had purchased shortly after my divorce. So I got the fancy panties out of the drawer, but the dang things no longer fit over my fat white arse! :( ARGH!

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Don't forget, Sherri, that most women are supposed to be 22-28% body fat for good health. So it isn't quite as bad a case as if you actually needed to lose 42% of your weight. Of course, PPLP points out that if you lose a lot of weight, you WILL lose some lean body mass too. For one thing, you don't need all the muscle mass that you currently have just to be able to haul around excess weight. When I started this (using the calculations and tables in PPLP), my lean body mass was 120#. That's exactly what I weighed when I got married, and I know I was not "fat-free", so obviously, my lean body mass was smaller then, probably more around 96#.

I don't know about aspartame making you fatter, but I do think it is noxious stuff. Some soft drinks are starting to use Splenda for sweetening. I don't think sodas are very good for you anyway. All that carbonic acid isn't great for you, including for your teeth!

Denise, I haven't noticed a need to adjust to EFA's. However, I've read that using flax oil/meal to provide it CAN cause diarrhea. PPLP wants us to use fish or fish oil. Those of us who won't eat sardines (me) need to take fish oil supplements. You can take a spoonful of the stuff (I haven't been that brave yet). You can take capsules, but you have to bite one every 3-4 days to see if they've gone rancid, in which case you have to discard them all -- rancid ones will actually cause harm to your health.

That doesn't seem too attractive, so I decided to try Coromega fish oil. Somehow, they make it into an orange-flavored "pudding". Come in little packets (similar to ketchup from fast food places). I find them palatable enough to take, though not so great that I wish I could have more than one packet a day. www.coromega.com I bought the small box first, so that I could try them. Expensive, but it's cheaper if you buy a larger box. Doesn't say you have to refrigerate them, but I did anyway.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Ok, this will sound dumb. I cut open one of the gels and the oil didn't smell wonderful but it didn't smell really gross. So is it OK? How can you tell if it's rancid?

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Oops, sorry, I wasn't clear. I said BITE the capsule because you have to taste it. Smelling won't do -- sorry! :-( If it tastes "fishy", then it's rancid -- according to PPLP, anyway. They recommend Carlson's brand of fish oil, and taking a spoon of that. Claim it's flavored with mint and you can't tell it's fish oil . . .but it scared me off. Orange sound much better with fish oil! Besides, it seemed to me that these little packets would stay fresher than an opened bottle of oil.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Hey there Sherri...This might be "slightly" off the subject but have you ever wondered why it's always the woman's job to "spice up" the relationship rather than the man's?? Tell Keith to wear the "fancy panties" :-)!! If I'm sticking my nose in somewhere where I shouldn't...feel free to tell me!!!

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

For my opinion on artificial sweeteners, here is a copy of a thread from Countrystyle Homesteading forum:

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

In addition to all the toxicity issues connected with artificial sweeteners, the most ironic thing is that THEY MAKE YOU FATTER!!! Sugar is bad enough, but the chemical sweeteners are worse. The only benefit they impart is to the pocketbooks of their manufacturers. from mercola.com:

"The major selling point of aspartame is as a diet aid, and it has been demonstrated that the use of this product actually causes people to consume more food. Normally, when a significant quantity of carbohydrate are comsumed, serotonin levels rise in the brain. This is manifested as a relaxed feeling after a meal. When aspartame is ingested with carbohydrates, such as having a sandwich with a diet drink, aspartame causes the brain to cease production of serotonin, meaning that the feeling of having had enough never materializes. You then eat more foods, many containing aspartame, and the cycle continues. "

aspartame and weight loss

aspartame makes you fatter!

As to Splenda (sucralose), here's (IMO) just another way to make money by selling an entirely unnecessary and probably harmful product to the public.

sucralose toxicity

potenti al dangers of sucralose

If you need help retraining your taste buds away from their pleasure dependence on sweetness, here is something that worked for me as far as soft drinks go. Try diluting them, just a bit at first, then gradually to include more water. When you just cannot live without that coke and you're away from home, buy a fountain drink at a convenience store and add your own water. Or let most of the ice melt before you drink it. It takes an amazingly short time for your tongue to become acclimated to a dislike of very sweet tastes.........unfortunately the reverse is also true, so you have to be vigilant.

If its made in a factory, we probably shouldnt eat it! :)

-- Earthmama (earthmama48@yahoo.com), July 08, 2002.

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Dang it, the links didn't transfer! Try again:

aspartame

aspartame makes you fat

sucralose toxicity

sucralo se potential

-- Anonymous, November 05, 2002

Thanks for the links, EM. :) They are very informative.

Does anyone know the equivalent for say 1 cup of sugar as compared to honey? If you used the equivalent amount of honey in baking would it make your recipe too wet? Would you have to adjust in some way? I have recipes that call for honey but I've never converted one that called for sugar.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

OK, I just went to the kitchen to bite one of these EFA gels and I couldn't bite through it for nothing. Man! are they tough! So I cut the tip off and tasted. It wasn't fishy but it still wasn't my favorite. So I guess they're OK! Couldn't they make the stuff chocolate flavored?

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

I found the answer in The More with Less Cookbook. 1 cup sugar=3/4 cup honey, molasses, or corn syrup. reduce liquid by 1/4 cup, add 1/4 tsp. soda, and reduce oven temp. by 25 degrees.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

Marcia, I didn't really see it as my job to spice things up. It's more like I noticed a situation that I wasn't happy with and rather than getting all upset I decided to just do something about it. Planning it was fun for me too. We both were pretty good about the spice when we first were together and just kind of fell out of the habit over the years. Now that we're both aware of the situation we can work on fixing it. BTW, he does have his own pair of 'fancy boxers' that he models for me! ;)

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

About the "omega eggs":

The reason the yolks are darker is because they feed the hens algae; the chlorophyll does the same thing to the color that access to pasture does, and some of the same things nutritionally too. I always fed kelp to my hens in the winter, and we all take bluegreen algae in my family.....very nutritious stuff.

My feeling is that they would certainly be nutritionally better than store-bought eggs, but when I went to the website I could find nothing on their husbandry practices, except a politically-correct sounding statement about being environmentally responsible.`I buy organic eggs, since I don't produce my own anymore :( cuz of the issues of caged birds, organic production of their feed, and support with my pocketbook of better farming practices, not just the nutritional/toxic aspects.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

I can't believe you guys who don't eat veggies! Iffen you can't eat grains, and don't like veggies, doesnt leave much left! :) I love veggies, and thank goodness so do my kid,; course I'll eat anything (except scrapple or blood sausage). For me, the simplest way to eat low-carb and healthy, and I do it once a day, is a meal of a salad of some sort, throwing in some tasty protein and a really tasty dressing. Chicken caesar salads are really popular in my house.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

Don't forget, Sherri, that most women are supposed to be 22-28% body fat for good health. So it isn't quite as bad a case as if you actually needed to lose 42% of your weight.

I know, I was just being melodramatic! :)

The more I read and study this nutrition stuff, the more I feel like Alice in Wonderland. Everything I that I thought I was doing right is wrong!

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

EM, I haven't liked veggies for a long time. Interestingly, I like them better on this eating plan -- maybe because I CAN have butter on them! ;-) And I DO eat them, now -- I've just gotten very lazy over the years about eating pre-prepared foods (and high carb, of course), not cooking for myself. I've had to change that. I am sensitive to many veggies, and I do have to be careful -- eating carrots, green beans, broccoli, and most lettuces give me horrible stomach aches and big-time diarrhea. I eat what I veggies I can. I get one or two vegetables at lunch and again at dinner. What's so bad about that?

I used to like scrapple, when I was a kid. Haven't had it since, so I can't say for sure.

The Gold Circle Farms eggs are supposedly from uncaged chickens with "natural" feed. I was buying organic eggs, which claimed similar things. But you know what? Without SEEING the facility, uncaged doesn't necessarily mean much. They can still crowd them into an outdoor pen and be practically wall-to-wall chickens, and still call them cage free and organic! It's really hard to know what you ARE getting! :-(

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

Joy, I didnt say nothin about bein bad! ?

If you are having trouble processing vegetables, you likely need hydrochloric acid reseeding and digestive enzymes.

-- Anonymous, November 06, 2002

E.M...Have you ever thought about writing a book or two on these subjects talked about here?? Really!!! I'm serious! It would be great to have all this info together in a book so that everytime my CRS kicks in I'd know where to look. Either that or I'm gonna have to invest in a printer for all these topics :-)!!

I'll bet I'm not the only one here who would buy a book if you wrote one!!!!! Will ya think about it??

-- Anonymous, November 07, 2002

Marcia, about you wanting me to run for president.....Haha......I couldnt run for DOG CATCHER; too emotional, have scary outside the box ideas, and, sad to say, I'm not very good at playing games. Thanks for the support though!! :)

And as far as writing a book goes, I've been working on two separate ones for quite some time, especially the one on "vegetarianism-NOT." Other one is on parenting. I havent given them much energy lately though; maybe this winter will be more productive, after I manage to regain my oomph. Right now I'm feeling spent.

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2002

Please, please let me know when the one titled "Vegetarianism-NOT" is available. BTW...Catchy title :-)!! You can do it, E.M.!!!!!

Is that too much pressure??

-- Anonymous, November 08, 2002

I'm down to 3 cans of Diet Mt Dew a day rather than 5 or 6, and I'm also drinking around 60 oz of water a day. I discovered that my grocery store carries Diet Rite red raspberry, kiwi-strawberry, tangarine, and white grape in addition to the ususal cola flavor. It's sweetened with Splenda rather than aspartame. I've only tried the red raspberry flavor so far and it's really yummy. I know some people think Splenda is kind of iffy, but I can only give up so many bad habits at once! :)

I got one of those scales that also measures body fat for my birthday. Right now I'm at 175 lbs and 40% body fat. I also got my blood test results back yesterday. I was kind of hoping that they'd be horrible so I could use that as a motivation, but everything was pretty normal. My total cholesterol was a little on the high side (197) but the HDL:trigliceride ratio was good. My Total Iron Binding Capacity was low, but if I'm remembering correctly from the Protein Power Lifeplan book having low iron isn't a bad thing.

Denise, how's the Body for Life going? Have you finished your first challenge yet?

-- Anonymous, November 15, 2002

Oh go ahead and write those books, EM! I'll buy them too!

Sherri, I understand what you are saying about giving up one bad habit at a time. Sounds like you are making progress to me. Great job! Jim drinks Diet Rite after drinking tons of Diet Coke for years. He likes the cola flavor and my daughter likes the raspberry on occasion.

Body For Life is still happening. We just completed week 10 of 12 today. Still 2 more to go. I can see some reshaping and slimming happening but still not the muscularity I was hoping for. I'm one of those fat-thin people that you read about from yo yoing so much. But the only way to improve that is to continue to eat well and plenty and to continue the weight training to build back the LBM that burns fat. So far I've noticed the most difference in my chest. I can tell it is getting muscular under the fat and I can flex it. My arms have a little shape now. My stomach has gotten flatter and hips are smaller. My legs are being the most stubborn. But I have noticed they are starting to improve in the last week or so (especially my calves). This is reall more a recompositoning than weight loss at this point. My scale weight has only changed about 5 lbs. I'm down to 121.

After BFL we are going to try a weight training program called BodyRx. I am very thankful for BFL for getting us started again but Rx looks more detailed in it's nutrition and exercise format. It's a 6 month program made up of 4, 6 week cycles. The focus and purpose of the exercise and nutrition changes according to each cycle's purpose. Cycle 1 is strength building(low reps, heavy weight), cycle 2 is sculpting( medium reps), cycle 3 is fat burning ( reps a bit higher), and cycle 4 is maintenace and endurance. Then you can go back through it all again if you want to make more progress. The nutrition adjusts protein, carbs, and fiber with each cycle. Oh and the body parts are split up in a way that we like better! It was tempting to go ahead and switch. But I don't want to miss out on any BFL results that I might get by not finishing. I may still see quite a bit of change yet. I hope :)

How are you doing Joy? Sherri have you decided on what program and when you will start? Talk to you all later.

-- Anonymous, November 15, 2002

I've been away this weekend, so I haven't had my "official" weigh-in yet. And I wasn't strictly "legal" but I did pretty well, and I think I'll show a loss again. If not, oh well, then next week! More later when I have time and something more to report.

-- Anonymous, November 17, 2002

Can't let this thread languish . . .

I did lose more, but I think this next week will be different. I think I have had too many "exceptions" the past couple of weeks, and I'll be surprised if I lose anything. I'm kind of in the doldrums -- I keep plugging away at staying on the way of eating, but it's getting boring! {sigh} If you have any words of wisdom on how to get over that, I'm all ears . . . er, eyes! :-)

Still haven't started the exercise part. Phooey.

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2002

Yes, it can get boring if you aren't constantly looking for new low carb recipes. I got a lot of good recipes from the low carb friends board. There are so many to choose from. And most of them are pretty easy. If you are into the low carb bars, I found they can be purchased at WalMart for a good price. They were less than half the price they are sold for at the gym or the health food store. The also had sugar free Russell Stover candies and Pure DeLite bars for a good price as well.

Conratulations on your progress! It may not have been as much as you'd like, but it's better than no progress at all. LOL!

You'll get to the exercise eventually. Just acclimate to one thing at a time.

Today is the end of week 11 of our 12 week challenge. We used some different equipment today and I am going to be sore. But that's a good thing to shake things up a bit. Can't let your body get to used to things, you know. It doesn't look like I'll be as muscular as I would have liked by next week but I've dropped 4 sizes with only a 5 lb. scale loss since 11 weeks ago. I've gained about 3 lbs. of muscle too. I've dropped more sizes in the past 11 weeks than I did with the 20 pounds I lost before that with no exercise. So I would have to say there is some recompositioning going on. I'm not going to consider my results final until week 13 because I'm due for TOM on Thanksgiving Day and won't be normal fluid retention wise until the following week. I think my measurements and scale weight will be more accurate then. By that time I'll be finished with week 1 of BodyRx. I hope we like it!

Keep up the good work! Talk to you later.

-- Anonymous, November 22, 2002

Did anyone try the almond muffins?

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2002

Not yet, EM. Here's the problem -- I DON'T LIKE TO COOK! I do it because I do like to eat. And I certainly know how to cook things I like. But I just don't enjoy it. (Even worse than the cooking is the grocery getting, putting away, and the clean up). :-(

Truly, though I enjoy eating, if there was a magic pill that would give me all the required nutrients, I would gladly give up eating and all the attendant hunting, gathering, preparation, and clean up! One of my major challenges is starting to cook before I am starving. I eat a lot of cold or rewarmed food because I always try to make a large amount, since I don't like to cook (and clean up) for every meal. I figure it doesn't take that much more work at the time and saves me a ton of time at subsequent meals. I do usually cook my veggies at the time -- winter squash is about the only one that I think reheats well -- but steaming the veggies really takes minimal time and work.

That's another way this WOE suits me -- I only have to deal with the protein and the veggies. If I had to prepare a "starch" (potatoes, rice, etc.), it probably would tip me over the edge and I'd fall back into my old bad habits -- eating whatever was easiest and handiest.

Tomorrow is official weighing day, but as of today, this week is going to be a no-loss week. Well, I'm not surprised. I had too many extras for the last couple of weeks. If I can just stick to it better this week, probably I'll go back to losing. It WILL get depressing if it continues longer, though!

I am making the dessert for our Thanksgiving get together -- not because I want to, but since I want to eat it, I'm going to make sure it's something I can eat. I probably will make a pumpkin cheesecake. One of the tricks I got from the PPLP forum is to make a "crust" of ground nuts, so I probably will use a mixture of almonds and pecans for that. So far, I haven't found almond "flour" for sale (locally, I know I could mail order), so I'll probably just make my own in the Vita-mix. I gotta make sure that I don't turn it into nut butter though. I do have a hand grinder for nuts, maybe I'll use that instead.

Well, Denise, losing four sizes while working out sure does make exercise sound more attractive! I just have to make sure that I make time for it. I should get up from in front of the computer, no doubt! I do have my exercise plan -- follow the exercises in Smart Women Stay Young (with a few from Smart Women Stay Slim, too, though I am ignoring her nutritional advice), and I've got my beginner weights (on sale at Marshall's, so doubly discounted). Just got to get going on it!

Still haven't tried making the spaggheti squash lasagna. :-( One of these days . . . One thing that I've found when I think I'm getting bored with the protein is that I haven't been eating enough fish. So I had fish for dinner, reheated the remainder for breakfast, and now I am contemplating tuna salad for lunch. I must be fish deprived . . . I also want to get my turkey cooked and eaten, and then not have any for a couple of days before Turkey Day, so that I enjoy our meal without thinking "Geez, turkey AGAIN!" Mostly, I like breast meat, but since they're getting an entire turkey, I'll probably have some dark meat, just for variety.

Has anyone ever tried ostrich? Or emu? When I was a kid, my dad was big into hunting, so we always had venison, and often, goose, duck, partridge, pheasant, moose, elk, antelope, mountain sheep, and caribou. Partridge, pheasant, and elk were my favorites, but I recommend them all, except the caribou -- tasted funny. My mom isn't the best at cooking game, so maybe there was a way to make it better. A nice cranberry sauce, maybe. Or a good marinating. We even had wild boar once (didn't care for that much either).

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2002

Joy, the almonds are kinda tricky to grind into a flour consistency, its true. Although I've read of people who do it in their food processor, I never had much luck with it coming out right. My Vita- Mix did a fair job, using just a few nuts at at time (three-quarters cup) and scaping down the sides. I really like the stuff already ground though; I buy it in 5 lb tubs and keep in the deep freeze.

I don't know if I would like cooking all that much if I lived alone either; most of the enjoyment is in pleasing my audience I think. My girls each have responsibility for the evening meal once a week, and I always enjoy those two nights, no matter if the food is occassionally weird!

I've eaten all those odd meats too; my dad also was an avid hunter. And we eat ostrich and emu quite often here. I like em all, but I'm sickeningly easy to please with food.

I personally dont get tired of the meat and veggies routine; don't really miss bread and rice and stuff. I love my salads (have to have really tasty dressing), and try to alternate all different kinds of meats/eggs/cheeses in them, I love almost all veggies too. Course the meat from the grocery stores has little or no flavor, but I don't eat that stuff very often. I eat a lot of fish and seafood too.

Sugar is still my nemises; I just can't seem to walk the talk with that one, and it gets me down. I really am addicted to sugar. My adrenals are probably shot. I did manage to cut out all alcohol though, and have replaced it with other sugars. :(

-- Anonymous, November 23, 2002

You folks have my utmost admiration for sticking to the healthy eating regimens!! I have absolutely NO self control when it comes to eating certain things. Unlike you, E.M. I don't really care for sweets and sugary desserts, etc. And I'm not one who munches on chips and stuff in front of the "tube". But I'd have a real problem giving up the breads, rice and pastas (with cream sauces). Potatoes I can give up...other than the occasional baked or au gratin dish! Most of the time, though, we also have meals comprised of just meat/fish/shellfish/lobster, veggies and/or a salad.

I do have a question...wasn't sure if I should ask it here or on a new thread. Do any of you buy mail order vitamins?? If so...what company do you recommend? I've been buying vitamins at Walmart, but I've seen much better prices advertised through mail order companies. And I really don't want to support Walmart any more than I already do :-)!!

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2002

Marcia, I get my vitamins through my acupuncturist, so I'm no help there . . . You have my sympathy about not giving up the grains. I am "sensitive" to them, and had to give them up because otherwise I got stomach aches and other more disgusting symptoms. I think they clog my head too -- I used to wonder why beer made my nose stuffy, could it be because it's made from grains? (DUH!) Anyway, even with "giving up" grains, I figured out how to eat just tiny amounts so I could have a taste. But my current WOE is an extension and refinement of many eating habits I have been cultivating for the last ten years -- such as avoiding hydrogenated fats.

Well, I didn't deserve it, but I lost another pound. I still am having cravings though, so I am trying some things to get around that. One is that I had gotten low on my vitamins and so wasn't taking as much as I should. I'm going to concentrate on making sure I get the proper amounts and see if that helps. Also going to try to not use any sweeteners, even stevia and Splenda. Some of the PPLP people have said they seem to trigger cravings for them -- maybe me too. I sure have upped my intake of them lately, because I've been drinking hot tea. Rats, I hoped that I could still have my tea sweetened! Going to cut the strength of the tea too, so it's easier to drink without sweetener. I do want to have something hot to drink, and hot water just doesn't do it!

-- Anonymous, November 24, 2002

This is now week 12 of 12 of BFL. The last and final week! I can't believe it's here!

We did legs today and I couldn't believe how much of a strength increase I had today. I've noticed that I've been gradually getting stronger all along but this was a big jump. I think that's a promising sign of good things to come.

-- Anonymous, November 25, 2002