Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics? I am Catholic but my friends just don’t understand why we praise her and I told them we just give her respect. Can anyone help me out understand why they don’t agree with our thoughts on mary?

-- Alicia (AliciaStar11@yahoo.com), September 16, 2002

Answers

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Hi Alicia:

They don't understand the words of the angel "All nations will call you blessed," nor do they put those words into practice. They do not comprehend the words of Simon, "A sword shall pierce your heart so that the thoughts of men will be revealed." They likewise do not understand the single and most profound role of this woman, Mary, in the plan of redemption.

Perhaps they don't understand because they've never been taught, and they just haven't contemplated fully her role. Afterall, Catholocism's devotions are highly contemplative, which is part of its beauty. The exercises of contemplation are really the key to understanding Mary's role. The Church has a magnificent history of contemplaters, Francis of Assissi, Thomas e. Kempis, St. Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and the list could go forever.

Also, in Protestantism, since they cannot go outside of scripture for truth, they have never had the opportunity, really, to comprehend what the Saints are doing in heaven. They tend to sort of "put them to sleep" by not realizing that they are more alive now than they were here on earth, and that the Saints are actively involved in building Christ's kingdom.

Hope that helps. You can help your Protestants brothers and sisters by pointing to scriptures in the N.T. that point to the role of the Saints in heaven. There are many. I don't have time to list them right now. But Paul speaks about the Saints ruling (or judging) Angels in several places. Moses and Elijah showed up on the Mount of Transfiguration with Jesus as Jesus told them of his plans for calvary.

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 16, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Hi Alicia: I think Gail pointed the answer for almost every discrepancy between Protestantism and Catholicism "in Protestantism, since they cannot go outside of scripture for truth..." Most of protestant groups don't believe in church tradition (big mistake) and they think Truth can only be found in The Revelation that was closed with Apostle John's dead. Some of those groups have evolved and now they show much respect for Our Lady, but still they can't believe what is revealed in the four Marian dogmas: 1.She's the Mother of God. 2.Her virginity was kept before, during and after the birth of Jesus and she "died" a virgin. 3.She was conceived immaculately. 4.Her body was not corrupted, She was taken to heaven with it.

But I think the most important reason is that they don't believe people go to heaven/hell right away when they die, but after The Final Judgement. Even the groups that don't believe this, think that once in heaven you can no longer pray for the livings (based on a Psalm). One last thing is that we've always seen Mary in the woman of Revelation 12 "clothed with the sun, and with the moon under her feet, and on her head was a crown of twelve stars" and not just The Church as protestants think. So, between al saints in heaven she has been exalted to Queen of all universe.

I think this document would be of great help for you.

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), September 16, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Hi, Alicia.

I'm the person you contacted by e-mail. I am so very glad that you took my suggestion and decided to start a new public thread here, to get the benefit of answers from more than just one person. I hope that you'll agree with me that Gail and Cristian are smart and friendly. Maybe others will respond in the days ahead too.

You can come right back to this thread and ask for further clarifications, if you need them. Then, when you want to move on to another topic on your list of questions, you can start another new thread. (And my offer is still open for us to have a private e-mail exchange too.)

All my best.

-- Friend (Good@For.You), September 16, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

I like the answers up thread.

Just to get the flavor of where they are coming from:

Yes, the charge is idolitry from the protestants side. And some verneration too much resembles the worship they say that only God should have. And I have seen people who go very far in the 'veneration' of Mary.

The idea that saints and such can pray for the living comes, I believe from Macabees (spelling?). This is one of the books that is in the Catholic Cannon, and not in the protestant one. It is a later book and much like a history, even if it does contain miracles.

But it is a inconsistancy in them: as the concept of prayers for the dead are only in that book, IIRC.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 17, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

I think it is also a misunderstanding of how the doctrines of the Catholic Church work. We don't take verses out of Scripture and build a doctrine around them, as Protestants do. The doctrines come *first* and the Scriptures *explain* them.

So the fact that doctrine of praying for the dead is only explicitly referred to in one verse of one book of the Bible, as Sean points out, is irrelevant. The doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly spelled out ANYWHERE in the Bible -- is that a reason to reject it?

Love, :-)

-- Christine L. (christinelehman@hotmail.com), September 17, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Sean:
The saints in heaven are able to hear our prayer, as God has always heard the prayer of men. It's inconceivable that anyone would doubt God's own ability to hear. He knows everything, even our most secret thoughts.

But the real reason that saints can hear your prayer has little to do with Maccabees II's mention of prayers for the dead.

We may pray for any reason, as well as for the dead. We may pray for the recovery of a loved one from illness, for the safety or welfare of a living person. Our prayer is heard because the Communion of Saints is a revealed truth. We received it from the Apostles, who clearly learned from Christ. If Christ taught them, it's it's simply TRUE.

The Communion of Saints is what the word states- - Union as one with the living and with the departed saints of the Church. We are ONE in the Mystical Body of Christ, His Church. The departed make up that membership which is either Church Suffering (Purgatory) or Church Triumphant (Heaven). The Church on earth, we who live, makes up the Church Militant. The three are ONE Church, One Faith, and One people, the people of God.

In the Old Testament's Maccabees II, that people was the Hebrews; predating the birth of Christ the Redeemer. Clearly they must have had a concept of Purgatory (a suffering state other than Hell. From Hell there can be no return.)

If they knew they could pray for the dead, then they had an idea of Purgatory. Because they were God's chosen people this concept was KNOWN and understood by Christ Himself. He was of the Hebrew faith; in fact that faith was faith in HIS coming as Messiah.

We've disputed with many non-Catholics here who believe that in order for a saint in heaven to even HEAR our prayer, the saint would have to be omnipresent, or omniscient as God is. They're mistaken. I guess it's because they've separated from the teachings of the Church. The Church states in her authority that the saints in heaven partake in what is called the ''Beatific Vision'', the sight and knowledge of things on earth. That would mean they are able to see us and hear our petitions. The Beatific Vision is God's gift. He is the Author of all graces, and it's a heavenly GRACE. This Vision is, basically the sight and knowledge of what GOD sees and permits them also to see.

I've been trying to explain that to a Mexican 7th-Day Adventist. He clams there isn't any such grace in heaven. Of course, he would demand it shown in the Bible. What good is it to tell an Adventist (Millerite) about the Communion of Saints? They have no clue, because their sect is heretical. But we know it's so because the authority of the Catholic Church states so.

Paul's epistle 1st Corinthians, Chp. 3 mentions that ''Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man, what things God has prepared (in Heaven) for those who love Him.'' If this article of faith is true the Communion of Saints has to be ONE of these wonderful things; with the Beatific Vision one of its greatest attributes. We are called by FAITH to believe these great truths our Church teaches us. Because Christ is in her; and Christ KNOWS all the Truth and speaks only the Truth to us. Our faith in Him demands we accept all He teaches us.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 17, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Sean: I think Eugene has given you a lot to reconsider your posture, but from what I've seen in previous posts in wich you have participated, I think you're "changing" for good.

Recapitulating: Maccabees II is not just history it's also Word from God. In it it's written how the exiled jews believed in resurrection and prayer for the dead. (not to the dead). Some of the political groups who stayed in Israel didn't believe in those customes, like the sadducees(Acts 23,8), even when the Holy Scriptures are full of references to Angels and spirits; on the other side there are hundreds of beliefs for wich you won't find a reference in The Scriptures. One of wich you can find allusions is the belief that when you die you don't go directly to heaven even if you deserve it, but to a place like some sort of "limbo" (as the Protestants use to say) where you have no conscience. Some exegetes think even Paul believed this at first(1 Th 4,15-17) and then it was revealed to him that you are to be in front of God immediately when you die (Eph 3, 15. There's also other letter when he says that sometimes he wants to die to join Jesus in heaven).

Sean wrote: "And I have seen people who go very far in the 'veneration' of Mary."

I've also seen that. Can we blame The Church for it? can you blame all catholics who take their time to read and believe just what has the seal of Inspired by the Holy Spirit?

One more thing, maybe you should do some research and find out why Protestants stopped believing in Mary because Martin Luther never had a problem with it. Then you could share that with us.

GBY

-- Cristian (gabaonscy@hotmail.com), September 18, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Here's a few quotes from Luther on Mary:

LUTHER ON OUR LADY Fr. William Most (First three items have been checked in original sources). 1. Commentary on the Hail Mary (Luther's Works, American edition, vol. 43, p. 40 , ed. H. Lehmann, Fortress, 1968)". . . she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. . . . God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. . . . God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her." 2. Sermon on John 14. 16: Luther's Works ( (St. Louis, ed. Jaroslav, Pelican, Concordia. vol. 24. p. 107: ". . . she is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God. . . . it is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." 3. On the Gospel of St. John: Luther's Works, vol. 22. p. 23, ed. Jaroslav Pelican, Concordia, 1957): "Christ our Savior was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb. . . . This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that." ***

1. Commentary on the Magnificat: "Men have crowded all her glory into a single phrase: The Mother of God. No one can say anything greater of her, though he had as many tongues as there are leaves on the trees." 2. Wm. J. Cole, "Was Luther a Devotee of Mary?" in Marian Studies 1970, p. 116: ". . . in the resolutions of the 95 theses Luther rejects every blasphemy against the Virgin, and thinks that one should ask for pardon for any evil said or thought against her." 3. David F. Wright, Chosen by God: Mary in Evangelical Perspecive (London: Marshall Pickering, 1989, p. 178: "In Luther's Explanation of the Magnificat in 1521, he begins and ends with an invocation to Mary, which Wright feels compelled to call 'surprising'". (Cited from Faith & Reason, Spring 1994, p. 6.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 18, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Bravo, Gail!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), September 18, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Thanks for those excellent quotations (and references), Gail.
JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 18, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Goodness! what a reply my input stired up!

But with most posts i gain some insight. Often the insight is not on topic, but I have been slowly growing and learning.

(off topic but when I was young I never knew what a 'bully pulpit' the Pope has: after Vatican II, every protastant church had to determine its reaction, and many of them changed quite a lot. Amazing. I would never have thought it.)

As to when and where the Marian stuff began to bug the protestants, I may just do that assignment someday and find out. My current guess is when they seperated from the saints.

Actually one of my favorite hymns has a phrase "the mystic sweet communion" of the entire body of Christ, living and dead.

My church is a humble and strange balance. We just deadicated an alcove to Mary, had the bishop by and he blessed it (bishop coming by is just a 'co-incidence', will not be by for the next 2 years or so). and the priest explained that we were not going Mary crazy, but that she is special and deserving of such. With 1/3 Catholic passing through to Protestant, 1/3 Protestant passing through to Catholic, and 1/3 born thus and will die thus, the explaination is needed. The truth is that he just likes a more 'High Church' feel. I guess this is another aside.

One of my first memorys is singing 'Ave Maria' with other kids and the nuns. That stayed with me as a beautiful memory. Mary is special in my heart.

The last time I was active in this discussion group (a few years ago?) I did some major clearing of problems I had with the Church. But I found that not all my objections were rational: some were emotional and that will either take a long time or maybe never.

Back to Mary? I need escape from this reply box to find out what else to say. (so on another post, No John, Jake could not easily scroll up and see what you were saying).

I understand and enjoy the idea of the Communion of Saints, and Mary is in that idea as well. The protestants throw this whole thing out. I may have to do that research to find out why.

Anyone who tries to argue that the authority of his Church says so, will not make points with someone who feels that the authority is illrelevent. True no matther if the authority is Morman or Catholic. Try arguing from the source of the principals. Trace back the arguements. Find the way that they go. The arguement that the trinity is not in the bible is a good starting point, go and do likewise for all other points raised. And poor dude, you have much more homework than me: Augestine is said to be very heavy, and much of the changes came through him and others like him. By changes, i mean the the very early church did not have the trinity doctrine, so at some point some very smart person had to point out that the trinity was a logical way to go, and a sure derivation from the Gospels. After that mention of the Trinity would be much more common. This in my view is a change. In some views it is a clarification or a outgrowth.

I hope this did not offend. Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 22, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

For my view, Martin Luther was a good priest who was (a hothead) enraged by the corruption of the church of his time. He would have been raised to respect Mary. Yet modern day Lutherines do not have strong ties to Mary.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 22, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

*wince* delete that about Martin being a good priest. It is very off topic, disruptive, subjective, and other such. It is how I see him, a hot head on fire for God trying to clean inside, and forced by either the Church or his own temperment to exit when he could not clean.

The real point is that like anyone raised Catholic, he would have a real feeling for Mary.

The young Martin is not the Old Martin. Like others he changed. I wonder if he changed his mind about Mary in his later years.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 22, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

A quote from up channel:

I think it is also a misunderstanding of how the doctrines of the Catholic Church work. We don't take verses out of Scripture and build a doctrine around them, as Protestants do. The doctrines come *first* and the Scriptures explain them.

(and back to me) This really does not seem quite right. My view of the Catholic historical process is that the scriptures came first, and making sense of and discovering the non-obvious implications of them came later. So every idea can be traced back to the Scriptures, even if you have to go to a long distance to do so.

In math the Calculus is not obvious, it took a huge foundation to get to that level. It took many people of genius level centuries to get there. Each was building on the ideas of the last. And there were controversies and duds. This is the analogy I would use. Trying to reinvent the entire Church's reasoning is like trying to recreate the Calculus on your own. But it is traceable from earlier ideas, built by inspiration, forced by circumstance or logic or desperation of finding anything else.

An example is the arguments that Christ is both Wholly man and Wholly God. If argued any other way, you run into either 'why should I care' or 'his life is meaningless if he did not live it as human' or other fallacies. This is a non-obvious idea derived from the consequences of the scripture. (it also is a too short summary of the whole arguement). So this is a doctrine. And it is easier to memorize with some little understanding than to take a course in it. But to convey it to someone who has their nose firmly in the scriptures you will have to regenerate it from first principals.

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 22, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Jmj

Sean, you seem to have a problem. Four posts in a row, all on the same day. Would you like to discuss what is eating you up inside?

Now that you have mentioned that you used to visit here before, I remembered you. It was two years ago. You have changed, somehow, but you are still quite confused and still so very, very wrong.

Sean, it is exremely tough for me to read your messages, because they are somewhat like "stream of consciousness." Your words are clear to you, because you know the things that you are leaving out. But WE don't know them! A couple of weeks ago, I asked you to try to write in a "straight" way -- as normal people talk to each other, face to face. You have ignored me. What do you have against my request? Why must you try to be cryptic? It's fine if you are artistic at heart, but please set that aside when you come here, for the sake of clearer communication. I beg you to talk like an ordinary human being.

You know, I just went back to the archives and did a little digging until I found a thread that you started in August, 2000. I think that you need to look at it. It scares me to read it. I see that I could not understand what you were saying then either. I don't know what more to say now.

Sean, I really would like to discuss the subjects you are recently raising here, but it is no pleasure doing it, because your mind is still utterly closed to Catholic teachings, and you seem to have a need to mock them.

I think that you are suffering from an incredible, subconscious guilt over leaving the Church, so you keep coming back here to punish yourself and become a Catholic again. But, having gotten here, the need to justify your continued separation, your attachment to certain mortal sins, etc., overwhelms you and moves you to post the most terrible messages. Just one negative message is not enough. It has to be an obsessive two, three, even four in a row -- in which you struggle to convince yourself that your pure speculation must be right.

You pretend (to yourself) to know what happened in the first 500 years of Catholicism (how doctrines came into being, how the Church allegedly changed its doctrines, etc.). To you, learned Catholic historians know nothing, and you scoff at them. It is really a painful exercise to read your stuff, which is not written to convince us, but to fool yourself into staying outside the Church.

Well enough of that. You just now addressed a comment to me:
"I need escape from this reply box to find out what else to say. (so on another post, No John, Jake could not easily scroll up and see what you were saying)."

You are quite wrong, Sean.
First, if you are writing in the "reply/answer box," you are perfectly free to click your "Back" button to review the full contents of the thread (even to select/copy text from it) before clicking on "Forward" to return to your partial reply in the "reply box." That is what I was referring to when I spoke to Jake. In fact, you don't even have to click on "Back." After having begun to reply, you can re-enter the forum from scratch -- or go to one or many other sites -- and then "Back" up to your partially written text in the "reply box."

Second, an even better option (especialy when writing a long reply) is to compose in a separate window (e.g., Notepad (TXT) or e-mail) -- and then copy-and-paste the reply's contents into the "reply/answer box" when you are finished writing. Composing "off to the side" in Notepad leaves your Internet window free for all kinds of movement to other threads, other sites (for research), etc. ... and it allows you to "Save" your partly completed work (to guard against crashes or to take a break, even shutting down, to come back later in the day or the next day).

Praying for you to come back home, Sean ...
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 23, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

John, I try to write in a way to be understood.

Yes, some of that was non-topical stream of counsness.

Thank you for how to post and still see the original.

I suspect you would rather that I drop this, and for now and for this topic, I will do so.

Sean

-- Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@juno.com), September 24, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Gail, your response was just beautiful. If we would just CONTEMPLATE the devotions! Not only are people in such a hurry-up mode, but many of our protestant brothers and sisters already have 'their minds made up', sadly, and need to put their mind away, and take on Christ's mind.

The days here in Calif. have been so sunny and warm, yesterday I found myself in our yard, contemplating our Lady, it's totally mind- boggling what she has done, and who she IS for us!!

I challenge anyone to just sit for awhile, and yes, look at her picture, or a statue, or a scripture, and think about her, and who she is to Jesus! We can't ignore her. She's our mother. Theresa

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), September 24, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Alicia,

I do not think it is up to us to try and understand why non Catholics do not honor Mary, but more importantly is that you understand why we honor Her. Then perhaps you can help them understand.

After much thought, I found the best source to quote on the subject of Mary is Saint Louis de Montfort (born 1673).

Saint Louis de Montfort (a.k.a) Messire Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort (a.k.a) Saint Louis Mary wrote the following:

"If the falsely enlightened, whom the devil has so miserably misled even in prayer, had known how to find Mary, through Her to find Jesus, and through Jesus, God the Father, they would not have had such terrible falls."

"The saints tell us that when we have once found Mary, and through Mary, Jesus, and through Jesus, God the Father, we have found all good."

"He who says all, leaves out nothing. Our spiritual journey is a dynamic process which takes us through Mary to Jesus, in union with the Holy Spirit, back home to God Our Father."

"She is the Mother of Jesus: we cannot say anything greater of her. This is the victory of victories, the crown of crowns. Let all mortals intone, in heaven, on earth and in all places: Mary is the Mother of God, she is the Mother of Jesus: we cannot say anything greater of her."

"Her special role in the plan of salvation history is clear: "Divine Wisdom would become man, provided that she (Mary) would give her consent" to be his Mother.

Mary is forever the Mother of Jesus, and Jesus, forever the fruit of her womb: this theme is found interlaced throughout the writings of Montfort: "Jesus being at present as much as ever the fruit of Mary..." Whenever we find Jesus, he is always the Son of Mary. She is always, concludes Montfort, "the inseparable companion of His (Jesus') life, of His death, of His glory and of His power in heaven and upon earth."

- Mary is also, therefore, always the Spouse of the Holy Spirit:

- She is forever, therefore, the Daughter of God the Father, for having willed to "communicate to Mary His fruitfulness inasmuch as a mere creature was capable of it, in order that He might give her the power to produce His Son," then she also forever is given the power - freely willed by the Father - to produce "the members of His mystical Body." As he says even more explicitly, "God the Father wishes to have children by Mary till the consummation of the world," for if we do not have Mary for Mother, then we simply do not have God for Father, so indissolubly are they united in the plan of salvation. Again, this is the free will of the Father who lovingly deigns to bring into the very core of salvation history a woman of our race.

This fundamental teaching of Montfort is the reason for such statements as "He began his miracles by Mary, he will continue them to the end of the ages by Mary."

Montfort is not only using the cultural analogies of his day; he is insisting that God has given us Mediators - not only Mary, but all the saints, - and in that communioning of saints, to neglect these powerful intercessors would be to invent again a dream world. And of these mediators, there is no one who can compare to the Mother of God and the Mother of men, the Immaculate Mary, the throne of Divine Wisdom. Mary eminently fills this need we have of a help to arrive at Divine Wisdom since she is the Mother of Grace, and since God has given her to us as the way to Him, for she is His way to us.

Prayer to Our Lady:

Remember, O most loving Virgin Mary, that never was known, that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, we turn to you, O Virgin of Virgins, Our Mother. To you we come, before you we stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the World Incarnate, do not despise our petitions, but in your mercy hear us and answer us. Amen.

Peace

-- Choas (Choas@ivillage.com), September 27, 2002.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

bump for Rod Rodriguez.

Pax Christi. <><

-- Anna <>< (Flower@youknow.com), February 24, 2003.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

To be fair, most of the Protestants I know are not intentionally trying to "diss" Mary - they *sincerely believe* that honoring her somehow detracts from worshipping Christ, because that message has been drilled into them since childhood, and it's very hard to overcome. Not impossible, but difficult.

We should try not to get angry at them, or take their concerns lightly - remember that some of us were where they are! :-)

-- Christine L :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), February 24, 2003.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

There are two main points of confusion that contribute to Protestants' aversion to our practice of honoring Mary. First, they do not understand the difference between "prayer" and "worship". They are quick to point out to us that the Bible says we are to worship God alone. Of course, we already know that - otherwise it wouldn't be in the Bible. But they think that "praying" to Mary is necessarily "worshipping" her. The second point of confusion is the difference between "mediation" and "intercession". They tell us that Christ is the only Mediator (they got that too out of our Book). But of course that fact, while true, has nothing to do with prayers of intercession, which are the responsibility of every Christian.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 24, 2003.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

I know this will probably not be posted, but the reason why "we" non- catholics (I was a catholic), praying to Mary will not get you to heaven. That is NOT in the Bible. It is clear in the Bible that the only way that God hears us is through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have ONLY ONE MEDIATOR and that is Jesus Christ. Mary cannot save you. Yes, she was blessed and a beautiful person, but the fact remains, she cannot save you just as all of the saints that were mentioned whom catholics pray to. It's not in the Bible. I will not read religion Bible (the catholic bible or a Bible that has been relabled by a religion). Religion will not get you into heaven. It's as easy as ABC, A- Admit to God that you are a sinner, B- Believe that Jesus is God's son, C- Confess that Jesus is your Saviour and Lord. Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

-- Dena and Kavin (kavindena4jc@cox-internet.com), August 11, 2003.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Oh, I see you must have been reading Chick tracts. There are many misconceptions about the Holy Catholic Church. We do not pray to Mary, we only ask that she and the blessed saints intercede for us.

-- Tryan Guess (noemail@none.com), August 11, 2003.

Response to Why is mary such a hype for non Catholics?

Dear Dena and Kavin,

No Catholic believes that "praying to Mary will get you to heaven". However, asking other Christians to pray for you may very well bring graces that will help you in your journmey toward heaven. Every Catholic knows that Jesus is our only Mediator (Catholics also know what this means. You apparently don't.) Catholics know that Mary doesn't save us. Our Savior saves us - though we wouldn't have a Savior if it were not for Mary. The "Catholic Bible" as you call it was the ONLY Bible until manmade sects started changing the Bible to suit their needs, a few hundred years ago. If you don't use the original Bible, what Bible do you use? Finally, Catholics know what the Bible says - that the Church alone is the foundation of truth; that listening to the Church is equivalent to listening to God; that the Holy Spirit guides the Church to all truth; and that whatsoever the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. You claim to follow the Bible, yet apparently reject all of these biblical teachings, relying instead on sole scriptura, a modern tradition of men which is NOT in the Bible.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 12, 2003.