I was wondering if any snipers in vietnam (army/marines/CIA/whatever) used ghillie suits of some sort? Even if it wasn't often. Or did they all just use tiger stripe?

-- Bobby L (Burncycle360@yahoo.com), September 03, 2002

Answers

i like hot sweatty men in gille suits in the jungle with guns. i like to stick guns up my butt.

-- Dick Sitswell (;asldkfj@hotmail.com), May 14, 2004.

you guys are all fags and i like fags

-- Haywood Jablome (i_like_men@yourmom.com), May 14, 2004.

I take it up the ass

-- Silly (I_Like_Ass@cs.com), May 14, 2004.

I want to thank you all for quite an entertaining forum. Many of you write that you have read this or read that, which I find quite amusing since very few of you can spell. I seriously doubt whether some of you can actually read at all, and find it nearly impossible to believe that you are all, collectively, the product of your fathers' fastest sperm. Nevertheless... since the topic at hand is "whether or not ghillie suits were used by Carlos Hathcock[or anyone else] in the Viet-Nam conflict" I'll throw in my two cents for what it's worth. First of all I'd like to thank whoever mentioned the Canadian's nack for sniping during WW-I, being Canadian I am quite proud of our war history [our current politicians decisions not with- standing]. First of all, although the ghillie suit was first used/invented by the afor-mentioned scottish game-keepers to catch poachers, I do not believe that they themselves were called ghillies, the word ghillie merely means man. So, directly translated, ghillie suit means man suit or a suit worn by a man. I believe they were introduced to the WW-I theatre by the Lovat scouts, a regiment raised by Simon Joseph[Lord Lovat]in 1899 to fight the Boers in South Africa . With regards to the question of whether or not Carlos Hathcock wore a ghillie suit during his sniping days in Viet-Nam, I'll have to defer to the man himself. In his writings and in interviews I have seen, he indicated that he DID NOT wear a ghillie suit. I agree that if he had worn one it probably would not have crossed his mind to consider his own comfort, for he was indeed a tough bastard. Since that about covers what little I know on the subject I'll leave you all with one parting thought,"please don't go shooting off your mouth about things you know very little or nothing about, since there are quite obviously no shortage of imbeciles out there, your ill thought-out opinions may be taken to heart by one or more of them, creating one of those, blind leading the blind situations resulting in the perpetuation of all this bullshit and horrible grammar i've read here in this forum." I am an avid shooter and most interested in long range maksmanship, so let us all keep an eye on the ball and not lose sight of what this forum is dedicated to.

Sincerely,

Brad A. Best

-- Brad A. Best (ianson65@hotmail.com), April 07, 2004.

FGS It's HATHCOCK! Thought you guys could at least spell his name correclty?

Sorry...... Brit sticking his nose in where it's not wanted, but come on.

-- Pete Andrews (pjandsarah@tiscali.co.uk), April 04, 2004.

With all due respect to the men and women of all branches of the military on whatever homefront. All the aforementioned have valid points - however most soldiers with combat experience will attest to the fact that safety will oftentimes be put aside and substituted with confidence. (mostly foolheartedly) Many were the snipers who thought it just "too damn hot" to wear the traditional ghillie; some were right and at that moment some were not - none were lucky. (you figure it out...) - but, to answer your question: the suits were there but not always used. Note: Your body does very weird shit when stressed - hydration and perspiration go hand in hand; without one - the other can kill you. 102 is the usual max - even for G.I. Joe! STAY SAFE - AND KEEP YOUR HEAD UP (AND YOUR ASS DOWN!)

-- Michael A.Blackwell, CAPT. USMC Ret (mblackwell172@hotmail.com), March 06, 2004.

Ok huys, you all have valad ansewrs in a way. The Ghillie suit was developed and used by Scottish game wardens way back in the early 1900's and the game wardens were called Ghilies. Hence the name of the suit. The Canadians wanted to develop a suit for wear for their snipers which were some of the finest trained at the time. They went to the Ghillies to leard stalking and field expedient came techniques, and the rest as they ay is history. Now for Viet Nam. Any good sniper worth his salt used some type of vegitation attached to his uniform at some point and time when mission dictated such use. In that this was not the traditional "Ghillie Suit" as we know and love, it was similar as is obvious. I feel there is no real right or wrong anserw, so all of you are right, in a way! Carry on all you dog faces, and live long and prosper!

De Oppresso Libre! Sniper X

-- Sniper X (vaughn777@cs.com), February 27, 2004.

Look, All that have posted have a point, from experience with my G- Suit, I have found them to be heavy and uncomfortable, but an advantage that is worth the weight and the heat, as for Nam, I dont know, but a G-suit is one of the best pieces of equipment I use, for hunting, paintball, sniping, anything, it comes in handy, i made mine, but you can order inexpensive ones from www.actiongear.com, hope this helped a little bit, im not in the marines, but i am leaving for boot camp soon, thanks to everyone already defending our nation that reads this, [][][]~Peace~[][][] []D§YcHo

-- Psycho (psych0_st0rm@hotmail.com), February 13, 2004.

guys stop bikkerin i know my spellin bad but your all just shoutin at each other lol its like going to a mothers meetin i read a story about a nam sniper somwhere who was coverd in hay laying in a field i cant remeber where tho an some other stories that there favorite hiding places where fallen tree trunks with some turf dug out under it so they would have a even place to lay and wit

-- millso (jimmy_bob92@hotmail.com), January 29, 2004.

Oh and for the heat issue, there is no way in hell they could have used the kind of over-sized over-the-top burly G-suits some people in here seem to be making, remember that many GI´s and VC! lost both their lives and sanity due to heat and humidity in Vietnam.

It would have had to be a light version if used.

-- P (na@nope.na), January 23, 2004.

OMG, a question was asked and all he got were peoples opinions for christ sake!

After reading books on sniping on Vietnam, (including much info about Hathcock among others) all I can say is that i never ONCE read anything about Ghillie-suits being used.

What you have to understand is that the art of sniping was still in it´s cradle in Vietnam after being forgotten/covered over since WW 1+2. They did not implement Ghillie-suits as WE know it but rather used individual ingenuety to solve the task at hand im sure some snipers used camoflauge that would be considered a G-suit by YOUR defention, BUT it was not a widely used concept, nor was it taught to sniperstudents at the various schools in vietnam.

Unlike today when all students at almost every sniperschool (including the famous USMC school, that we have gunny Hathcock and Mj Land to thank for) have their students make their own G-suits.

And by that i would consider the question answered, and if anyone thinks im utterly wrong i expect that person to be no less than an experienced sniper in his 50´s having served in vietnam!

And i seriously doubt anyone like that would consider me to be that wrong.

-- P (na@nope.na), January 23, 2004.

Ghille suites are great camo, and also fun to use in paintball games. They do take a lot of time to make by hand though. If you want to make one just unstrand a bunch of burlap, the put the strands in a bunch of bundles then dye them different colors then put the undles on a bdu (BATTLE DRESS UNIFORM). Each bundle should contain about 100 to 200 strands. GOOD LUCK though, it takes forever to unstring it all.

-- Kodiak (111@aol.com), December 09, 2003.

The guy right before me Chad, is correct. I read Marine Sniper and that is what it said. As far as being to hot for a guille suit, and dying of heat exhaustion, I don't think so. If it is so, you shouldn't be a sniper.

Guille suites of some sort: holes in BDU, netting, and a short strip of cloth sewn on both ends to stuff plants in.

Tiger stripe: that and Woodland/Jungle ( the 3 color green) once that was developed. Woodland/Jungle is superior in my opinion.

-- JT (Demented@bellsouth.net), November 10, 2003.

You're all diseased morons, stop typing and start reading a book (and maybe paying attention in English class, for God's sake).

Research USMC sniping and ghillie suit-usage before you post your non- sense opinion on this forum.

-- Steve (steve@steveleo.com), November 06, 2003.

Ok ok im not here to say your all wrong. I m here with info that i have recieved by pros. The usmc did not use the military style ghillie suit like we have today. They did use bdus with holes cut in them. Hathcock said the ghillie suit was not implamented until the late 70's when he and Maj. Land brought back the idea from canada and england. Then Maj. Land's wife made the first one within the U.S military, for the usmc scout/sniper school. The heat thing i do think it was too hot in most areas but there are areas that were only 90-98 degrees. I myself have worn my suits in 100 degree heat. I sweated like a damn waterfall. But in most spots in the Nam, you probably could die of heat exaustion

-- chad (crill@skateboard.com), November 03, 2003.

Off topic: just sharing my Uncle Terry's letters from his tour of duty in Vietnam. Please write if you find them interesting. http://hometown.aol.com/hippi36/ Also take a look at: Click here: Lost and Found Sound: The Stories www.npr.org/programs/lnfsound/stories/991224.smith.html

-- Donna (hippi36@aol.com), November 03, 2003.

An excellent question I thought Bobby, and it's a shame you recieved some silly replies. Personally I do not know but I will try and find out. One thing that struck me, I wonder how people that posted have actually served in the military?

-- Ty Grady (ty.grady@student.gu.edu.au), October 14, 2003.

In vietnam, they used what ever they had..............If you want to call it a Ghillie suit go ahead. Camo of any type was what you could make up. Uniforms, with holes stuffed with twigs grass branches. Tiger stripped camos. Netting etc for fixed positions. Hidden in bushes, under fallen logs what ever kept you from being detected. As far as Ghillie's go they where Scottish Game keepers who protected their Lord's land in Scotland. They used suits similar to the modern Ghillie, to cover themselves. Later, Lord Lovat scouts adopted this technique mainly because Lord Lovat recruited his scouts from Game wardens who used them. Carlos Hathcock and a number of other USMC personnel are credited with bringing the modern sniper programmes back to the US after a considerable absence. Carlos was a kind off "poster boy" who's skill could demonstrate the affectiveness of a modern rifleman/sniper. He was also the person who's experiences moulded the current training programmes "In country/Stateside". The US did infact have other marksman programmes in previous conflicts, and they faded once the conflict was over, but these guys gave you what you have today. As far as, Snipers not using Ghillie suits because they are too hot, you gotta be kidding. I would not base any assumption of use/non-use on comfort. Snipers aren't there to be comfortable. They are there to shoot. Minutes, Hours, Days, Weeks. They serve their countries because they want to. They are excellent at what they do.

Be thankful you never see them. Brad

-- Brad Beecroft (bradbeecroft@bigpond.com), September 01, 2003.

In his book titled "Dead Center", author Ed Kugler chronicles his two year tour in Vietnam as a sniper/scout. From 1966-68 his story covers many aspects from the formation of of a sniper platoon through the forays of his "Rogues" squad. Not once was mentioned the use of a formal ghilly suit for camo. In fact the sniper/scouts weren't even authorized the issuance of face grease and had to use charcoal instead.

-- JM (mailmech@yahoo.com), August 11, 2003.

what are you guys talking about ofcoarse they wore them! haven't any of you ever watched the history channel!?!

-- some kid (airplane1000000@hotmail.com), July 24, 2003.

And to chris xplosive you also don't know a lot because although ghillie suits can be for areas with no cover they are more often used to completely blend into the suroundings like in a forest, jungle,tall grass, etc... Camoflouge is not good enough when it is 2d such as on military uniforms and a soldiers outline or shape can easily be seen and distinguished as a persons, what a ghillie suit does is break up that outline or shape so you look just like part of the landscape. And if you've seen pictures of a soldiers lying in the forest and jungle with army camoflouge on and then with a ghillie suit you would really know what i am talking about. And till you've read uo on this stuff you shouldn't be saying anything.

-- Paul A. (p141987@yahoo.com), July 07, 2003.

You guys dont know anything. Ghillie suits were used in vietnam. During the begining they werent becasue we didnt even have lots of snipers then. Towards the middle of the war they made a sniper school and trained snipers using some of the same teaching methods as used in the hawaii sniper school 5 years earlier. Thats when we started using ghillie suits.

-- Paul A. (p141987@yahoo.com), July 07, 2003.

First of all, ghillie suites were designed by the Scottish to catch people stealing the sheep back in the day. How many jungles are in Scotland? NONE! Ghillie suites are designed to be used in open areas with little to no cover. They are not practicle in jungles. However a sniper in Vietnam cut holes in his uniform and put grass through them and crawled 1,200 yards through a meddow, to put a bullet through the heart of his target. Not quite a ghillie suit but a damn good idea. Read Marine Sniper for the whole story.

-- Chris xplosiv (Ski6282@aol.com), June 30, 2003.

Bobby posted this thread to find out if they really did wear ghillie suits in Vietnam, and not on your opinion if they did. We all have opinions, he wants facts. I do know for a fact that they did wear netted outfits that they stuck natural foilage in, but as to the rest, you'll have to ask someone who was there. Thanks.

-- Brett L (Bokie999@hotmail.com), May 21, 2003.

Can't you fuckers spell?

-- The Literate One (dcn@SRV.net), May 19, 2003.

Because vietcong did not have very good I sight there was no need.

-- BUTTWHEAT (foor@bar.com), May 19, 2003.

listen, anything that can keep u out of the enemys cross hairs and allows you to remain undetected is similiar to a guille suit. It don't matter if he wore one or not, he got the job done.

-- conor h (ctwhaler11@aol.com), May 14, 2003.

Carlos Haflcock is one of the greats and he would wear a ghillie suit. I know for a fact that comfort did not mean anything to them. If it did they would of worn waterproof boots. Its only obvious that the USMC snipers wear the suits everywhere.

-- Ryan Miller (hoodyhoo200@aol.com), May 07, 2003.

Yes, we did wear Ghillie suits...however most snipers opted not to, as it was stated before it was just go Goddamn hot there.

-- Sgt. Jonaton Edwards (sgt_edwards@westpoint.edu), April 19, 2003.

Cody has a point......we would be speaking German or Jap if it wasnt for ppl like Hatcock and the men that he led. IF you havn't read the books about him then STFU cause you dont know what the hell he wnt throught to serve his country and stay alive.

-- Alex m (alexm36322@yahoo.com), April 11, 2003.

Cody go to hell u illiterate son of a bitch.( Can't even spell Bastard)

-- T Mac (tmac_18_21@yahoo.com), April 10, 2003.

Ghillie suits don't always have to be hot like a lot of people would picture them being due to how bulky they are. A ghillie suit can be a net with a bunch of olive drab or dyed cloth attached to it that you just lay over yourself and then roll up and leave whenever you want.

-- Erich Smith (fleaman2k@aol.com), March 25, 2003.

I Agree With CODY

-- Cody Ralph (LRALPH@aol.com), March 21, 2003.

Yes, they were used in vietnam. Stuffing sticks in your camos is considered a makeshift ghillie suit. And for all you selfish BASTARS who have no respect for the war heros and war history and say "who cares" about it. You better realize that all these brave men and women are the reason we are free today. Hell without them we may be in some nazi torture camp or run over with communism. So if you want to be that way fine, but stay the FUCK OFF the sites were people do have respect. Cody Montgomery

-- Cody Edward Montgomery (stu03421@mail.atu.edu), March 04, 2003.

I like snipers in ghille suits

-- Joe (I like men@hotmale.com), January 29, 2003.

I was a sniper for the Army and wore tiger and leopard fatigues, using the natural camo around the position. We were usually dropped off at a sight had very little knowledge of the vegatation or time to even change quickly. We set up on hillsides and mountains.

-- Lee A. SandsJr. (sandscooter@aol.com), January 29, 2003.

I'm reading a book about Seargent Hathcock, and it agrees with the above post.... he cut holes in his utilities and stuffed grass and leaves in them so he blend in. I'm not sure about other branches of the military at that time, but I would say that they used natural materials, not ghillies suits.

-- Dave (iflythebus@yahoo.com), January 25, 2003.

Hatchcock told in interview, that THEY dont used ghillies at al. He said that his uniform was full of holes, in which he sticked twigs. He said, it was normal to use natural camo and mentioned, that "advanced" ghillies are rather modern concept.

-- J. Peter (hawkwind@seznam.cz), January 24, 2003.

I dom't thimk they wore them because they might have gotten heat stroke in the jungle

-- Hugh Jass (fake one@ yahoo.com), January 22, 2003.

of course they wore ghillie suits! i dont think they care about the heat if it keeps you hidden.

-- Tyler Akey (mean_and_surly@yahoo.com), January 21, 2003.

I have read my share of books on carlos hathcock and he never used a ghille suit. He was one of the people who brought the ghille suit to the usmc

-- Osvaldo Arroyo (cx4_bp_ryder@yahoo.com), January 10, 2003.

Of course they used Ghillie suits in vietnam, Carlos Hathcock used them. If you know anything about USMC history he is one of the greats.I don't think comfort was at the top of the list. I think staying alive was. Real snipers didn't play kiddy games. They did a very importent job for there counrty. They would sweat there balls off just so they could come home alive.

-- Garry (toy83ss@yahoo.com), November 28, 2002.

We wear ghillie suits everywear man. After you're at the Objective Rally Point and ready to stalk into your final firing positon, you change over and put on the tree tux. We even wear the damn things in the dessert. Don't think the heat is going to over ride not getting seen.

-- Handout (fredjarvin@yahoo.com), November 08, 2002.

So in reality ghillie suits are rarely used because it's not comfy to wear them?

I mean, going by that, the only place one COULD wear them is in the arctic or similar! Even mild days would be too hot

-- Bobby L (Burncycle360@yahoo.com), September 15, 2002.

i don think any were used my logic behind this is its too damn hot in the jungle to wear one ive worn one and the witer and broke a sweat

-- jake (phantomfreq@cs.com), September 05, 2002.