My uncle (first cousin of my dad) is my boyfriend and has asked for my hand in marriage, his father and my dad's mother are siblings which makes his grandparents my great grandparents, i would like to know if the catholic church will allow us to marry? please help, we just met actually and we were never "close" as relatives. thanks a lot

-- kitty daniel (kiitydanielph@yahoo.com), August 04, 2002

Answers

He is your first cousin once removed. The Church would not allow a marriage with this close line of relationship. I believe the closest degree of relationship allowed for marriage is the third degree, i.e. third cousins.

-- Christina (introibo2000@yahoo.com), August 04, 2002.

To my understanding Second removed cousin is the least acceptable. This of course is due to inbreeding which may or may result in physical abnormalaties.

There are only five gene pools to work from. Crossbreeding is the best for human development. Blacks with whites Asian with Indian that type of thing or any combination of.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), August 05, 2002.

Dear Kitty:
There is no cause for you to ask these things of strangers in an Internet forum. Why haven't you inquired of a priest? Even if he did not have the complete information, he would know where to find it for you. It's very easy to be misinformed here. The only one who is authorised to inform you is the bishop of your diocese. In all events, he would be the one who could give you a dispensation, in case you needed it. No one here can really help you.

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), August 05, 2002.

There are only five gene pools to work from. Crossbreeding is the best for human development. Blacks with whites Asian with Indian that type of thing or any combination of.

What in the world does that have to do with the original question? Are you encouraging that for proper human development, one should look outside of his race, instead of within? Don't get me wrong, I do not think it is wrong to marry someone of another race (I even have family members who have done so), but if you are encouraging that everyone do so, then how would each race continue to survive?

Would you have us lose the beautiful, rich culture that each race provides to this world? All for the sake of human development? Because that is what would happen if *everyone* "crossbred", as you put it.

I have been to Texas, New Mexico, Arizona & California and have seen the beautiful Spanish/Mexican churches there. Personally I would hate for the world to lose the influence of that culture, as well as any other.

Me, personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with marrying one of another race, but I don't think God would want each race wiped out completely by everyone doing so.

Just my opinion.

Isabel

-- Isabel (isabel1492@yahoo.com), August 05, 2002.

i would like to know if the catholic church will allow us to marry?

I hope not Kitty .

Isabel I tend to agree with you but I found your choice of words interesting. "I even have family members who have done so"... it sounds like you are not all that happy about this happening.

I love you Isabel or .....I even love you Isabel ! LOL :]

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), August 06, 2002.

We had a detailed discussion about this topic sometime ago.. David SOS

-- kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), August 06, 2002.

Kiwi, I found the thread you had in mind. (It was current in June.)

The following -- for you, Kitty -- is based on what I read, several months ago, on an Internet page, as published by Monsignor Kevin Quirk, a marriage tribunal judge in West Virginia. (I wish that I could find and link his page now, but alas, I cannot.)
The following states things that are contrary to what other folks have told you above. I strongly recommend that you contact your own diocese's tribunal (rather than your pastor) to get an authoritative ruling. I think that some pastors are not aware of the facts on this subject, because they have not had to study it.

On that June thread, the question concerned "second cousins" -- rather than "first cousins, once removed," which is your situation, Kitty.
According to the 1917 Code of Canon Law, marriage of second cousins (two children of first cousins) was forbidden without a bishop's dispensation. From what I have read in more than one place (not just Msgr. Quirk), I believe that the 1983 Code of Canon Law changed this, so that now the marriage of first cousins is forbidden with a dispensation. You and your "friend" are farther apart than simply "first cousins."

Here is what I wrote in June, slightly modified to fit your situation:

According to the Code of Canon Law (for the Latin Church), one may not marry someone in his "direct line" (parent, grandparent, child, grandchild). Nor may one marry someone who is in too close a relationship in a "transverse" or "collateral line" of consanguinity ["blood" relationship]. The normal impediment in Canon Law forbids marriage up to, and including, the "fourth degree of the collateral line" -- which means one's "first cousin" (son or daughter of one's aunt or uncle).

One may never marry a sibling (second degree collateral) or an aunt/uncle/niece/nephew (third degree collateral). But I have read that a bishop may grant a dispensation to allow the marriage of first cousins (fourth degree collateral). In your case, there is not even any concern about seeking a dispensation, since you and your second cousin are in "fifth degree of the collateral line." [Count as follows: yourself = 1, your father = 2, your paternal grandmother = 3, her brother = 4, her brother's son (your good friend) = 5].

One caution: The Eastern Catholic churches have their own Code of Canon Law, to which I do not have access. I am not sure if the Eastern Code has the same or stricter rules on degrees and dispensations. And I don't know if you are a Catholic of the Latin church or of an Eastern church (e.g., Byzantine, Maronite).

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), August 12, 2002.

Oops!
In modifying that quotation to fit your situation, Kitty, I overlooked one needed fix.
I wrote (in italics): "... since you and your second cousin are in 'fifth degree of the collateral line.' ..."
That should have been: "... since you and your first-cousin-once-removed are in 'fifth degree of the collateral line.' ..."
JFG

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), August 12, 2002.

Kiwi,

I am sorry I missed reading your post to me. God bless you.

John,

Thanks for the help. God bless you.

-- David (David@excite.com), August 13, 2002.