"8: Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps." So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined." (Isaiah 38,)

What did exactly happen in this case? It is at least a baffling text.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), July 19, 2002

Answers

I would venture that the Earth turned back... :-)

All my best,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), July 19, 2002.

I interpret it to mean that somehow the sun changed position in the sky. My guess is the same as Mateo, God rotated the Earth backwards.

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), July 19, 2002.

picture this . . . a basketball on a globetrotter's finger endlessly spinning and spinning, yet with the mere flick of the wrist and a sly grin, the deft ball-handler easily slows and reverses the rotation ever so slightly, and then shifts it back on its original course, just to show one and all how securely he holds the ball in his hands . . .

David

-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), July 19, 2002.

From a physics point of view, if God had chosen to stop the rotation of the Earth, everything on the surface would have continued spinning (because of Conservation of Momentum) with a velocity of 462 meters per second. This represents people and things at the equator. This figure is roughly 1/20th of escape velocity, so people wouldn't have left the gravitational pull of the earth. The number would be higher if the earth was actually caused to spin in reverse.

Now, if God chose, He could have simply suspended Newton's first Law--it's actually God's law, not Newton's. This way, people (and everything else on the surface of the earth wouldn't go flying when the momentum of the earth suddenly changed.

Otherwise, God could have changed in momentum of everything on the surface of the earth, though people no doubt would have noticed the extreme change in momentum.

If Conservation of Momementum wasn't broken, I would have to change my answer to the Sun. God moved the Sun, not the Earth.

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), July 19, 2002.

Jmj

Hello, Enrique.
I would like to give my opinion, which is completely unofficial.

I think that it would be good to back up and give your verse some context (from the start of Isaiah 38). King Hezekiah is about to die, but God uses the king's sundial (time-keeper) to show him a symbol of the fact that he will be granted a lengthening of his life:

"In those days Hezekiah became sick and was at the point of death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came to him, and said to him, 'Thus says the Lord: Set your house in order; for you shall die, you shall not recover.' Then Hezekiah turned his face to the wall, and prayed to the Lord, and said, 'Remember now, O Lord, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in faithfulness and with a whole heart, and have done what is good in thy sight.' And Hezekiah wept bitterly. Then the word of the Lord came to Isaiah: 'Go and say to Hezekiah, Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add fifteen years to your life. ... This is the sign to you from the Lord, that the Lord will do this thing that he has promised: Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the [sun]dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.' So the [shadow cast by the] sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined."

This event is also recorded in 2 Kings 20, the tail end of which reads:
"And Hezekiah said to Isaiah, 'What shall be the sign that the Lord will heal me, and that I shall go up to the house of the Lord on the third day?' And Isaiah said, 'This is the sign to you from the Lord, that the Lord will do the thing that he has promised: shall the shadow go forward ten steps, or go back ten steps?' And Hezekiah answered, 'It is an easy thing for the shadow to lengthen ten steps; rather let the shadow go back ten steps.' And Isaiah the prophet cried to the Lord; and he brought the shadow back ten steps, by which the sun had declined on the dial of Ahaz."

Enrique, although God can do all things, I do not believe that the sun in the sky actually moved (or jumped) backwards -- but rather that only its shadow miraculously moved on the sundial, visible to Isaiah and Hezekiah. After all, if the sun itself had moved, that would have been visible to everyone, and there would have been no point in even mentioning the sundial!
The final verse in 2 Kings 20 (just quoted) says that the Lord "brought the shadow back," not that he "moved the sun back." Also, the incident is referred to a third time in the Bible! In 2 Chronicles 32, there is a reference to the "sign" God gave to Hezekiah, and it is mentioned that "the envoys of the princes of Babylon [were] sent to him to inquire about the sign that had been done in the land [of Israel]." I think that such envoys would not have been sent to find out about the sundial if the sun itself had move/jumped backwards.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), July 19, 2002.

I actually read somewhere that secular history records something like that occurring, but darned if I can remember where I read it.

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), July 19, 2002.

Perhaps a member ( Mateo ) could delve into the positions fo constelations at the time as astrologers would have known?

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 20, 2002.

Jean, I know physics. I don't know astronomy, aside from basic planetary motion--which is still Newtonian stuff. I don't know how constellations' positions could affect the rotation of the sun.

John, I like your theory.

Gail, I looked around a little bit, and theories abound on what this passage means. Here are some examples:

One theory believes that the Sun moved backwards because of a somewhat abrupt change in the axis of rotation. According to a website (we believe everything on the web, right? Hahhaha)...From a Protestant "Bible Chruch"

"Would God do such a remarkable thing merely to encourage this king's faith? Obviously it was meant to be more than that. Recall that when Rabshakeh spoke to the deputation from Jerusalem he stood at an extremely significant and historic spot before the wall of the city "the conduit of the upper pool on the highway to the Fuller's Field" the exact spot where Isaiah had given the sign of the virgin's son. That sign also was not designed only for the benefit of Ahaz, but for the benefit of the whole world, the whole universe. Here then was another sign that would be manifest throughout the whole world, for to cause the shadow of the sun to turn backward on a sundial meant that some major physical change had to occur on the earth.

Certain critics hold that the earth must have stopped its rotation, and there is no record that that phenomenon ever occurred. But the sign given to Hezekiah did not require that. Scientists now know that a shift in the axis of the earth would have such a result. Doubtless that is what happened for science has also discovered that at various times in the past the axis of the earth (the slant of the earth in relationship to the sun) has suddenly changed. That would cause the shadow on the sundial to turn back."

According to the US Bishop's online Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls refer to a starway, not a sundial.

"Stairway to the terrace of Ahaz: this interpretation is based on a reading of the Hebrew text revised according to the Dead Sea Scroll of Isaiah; cf 2 Kings 23:12. Many translate the phrase as "steps of Ahaz" and understand this as referring to a sundial."

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), July 20, 2002.

Mateo - my point wqas perhaps both Astrologers and? would have recorded such a happening as in the Star Of Bethlehem is.

-- Jean Bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), July 24, 2002.

Jean writes:

"Mateo - my point wqas perhaps both Astrologers and? would have recorded such a happening as in the Star Of Bethlehem is."

This may be a role reversal for us, but anyway... Outside of the Bible account, what proof is there of the Star of Bethlehem? Is there a secular record of that event?

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), July 24, 2002.

I think there is a historical event on record at the time, Mateo, but I would have to try to remember where I saw info on that... I don't recall right now.

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), July 25, 2002.