What do I need to buy to do 1/1000 flash sync with the M7? I think there are 2 items I need, an adapter and a flash, but I'm confused about the part/model numbers of what I need. Further, with this setup, would I simply be able to choose any shutter speed on the M7 and the flash would sync with it?

-- Tristan (emulsion71@hotmail.com), June 05, 2002

Answers

I think you need the SCA 3502 and Metz 54mz-3 flash.

-- Phillip (pp12302@nospamyahoo.com), June 05, 2002.

You need the Metz 54-MZ-3 and the SCA 3502 adapter. You can then use HSS but this only gives you a low power manual flash and it does not work on the two mechanically controlled speeds.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@shaw.ca), June 05, 2002.

Save your money, the HSS is nearly useless. Nikon's have been doing what they call FP High-Speed Sync for a while...basically the same thing, the flash fires stroboscopically so that the entire frame is illuminated even at higher speeds. It also doesn't work TTL and the power is lowered the higher the speed you use to sync. Your only way of achieving correct exposure (since you can't vary the aperture without affecting the ambient exposure also) is by calculating and placing the camera at the exact distance you need to be from the subject, like we used to with G/N's before even non-TTL autoflash came along.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 05, 2002.

i had forgotten that it doesn't work in ttl. darn, that doesn't sound as useful as i'd like...

-- Tristan (emulsion71@hotmail.com), June 05, 2002.

I don't understand why it doesn't work with TTL. Olympus introduced this fifteen years ago with TTL flash working.

But that's besides the point. It's a big marketing ploy, the power is so puny that it doesn't have much effect at the apertures you want it to work at. If you want high speed sync, buy a medium format camera with leaf shutter lenses.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), June 05, 2002.

Maybe someone can tell us approximately what the effective GN will be for an M7 used with the appropriate Metz flash/SCA adapter at 1/500 or 1/1000 sec shutter speed. I'd like to get an idea of the range of the flash.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), June 05, 2002.

Yeah, a leaf shutter lens should take you to at least a 500th. I hear there's a new LFS 50mm 'cron to be introduced with the M8...........(kidding!)

-- Todd Phillips (toddvphillips@webtv.net), June 05, 2002.

Its too bad Leica hasn't any leaf shutter lenses, such as Hassy. They did make a leaf shutter lens at one time-- a 50mm, I think. I think it must be difficult to design leaf shutter lenses to get the sharpness of focal plane lenses. Then, too, the leaf shutter probably would not be compatible with the rest of the features.

-- Frank Horn (owlhoot45@hotmail.com), June 05, 2002.

Aside of the fact that Olympus just discontined their high end 35mm cameras, they only offered manual HSS flash as well. Their is no TTL HSS flash unless you use a leaf shutter.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@shaw.ca), June 05, 2002.

Aside of the fact that Olympus just discontined their high end 35mm cameras, they only offered manual HSS flash as well.

The manual for the OM-4T can be found here.

If you read the section on flash, or even just the specs at the end, you will see that it does work using the OTF flash metering.

I've used it, when I was using SLRs, and it works with the TTL system.

But it's probably easier just to knock it without knowing, so feel free.

-- Jeff Spirer (jeff@spirer.com), June 05, 2002.

I use the F280 on my OM4t's all the time for daylight synchro fill- flash. I've been VERY happy with the results. Don't let anyone tell you that it doesn't work, or that an OM4 won't do TTL flash with the F280. The camera controls both the flash and the camera, balancing the light from the flash and ambient via varying the shutter speed. Yes, the effective distances depend on the shutter speed. But I just keep it on and shoot with whatever speed that I want.

It works for me.

I don't know if the M7 also does TTL control with the Metz or not in HSS.

-- Skip Williams (skipwilliams@pobox.com), June 05, 2002.

"Their is no TTL HSS flash unless you use a leaf shutter." -- John Collier

Type A Canon EOS cameras (ELAN 7, EOS1V, EOS3, ELAN II, REBEL 2000, REBEL G, etc.) as well as the EOS D30 and D60 all do high-speed sync (FP flash) in E-TTL mode. And they'll do it with the Metz 54MZ-3, too.

-- Robert Schneider (rolopix@yahoo.com), June 05, 2002.

Todd was kidding about the 50 Summicron with leaf shutter to be introduced with the M8, but it is not as far fetched as that may seem. Leica actually came up with the idea in the 1950s and produced a few prototype lens called "Compur Summicrons" to be used with the Leica IIIf camera body. The lens had a special shutter with camera linkage that allowed high speed flash synchronization, I believe up to 1/250 sec.

Unfortunately a IIIf with Compur Summicron will run you about $ 15,000 if you can find one. I remember seeing such an assembly on a Tamarkin auction many years ago, and not since. But the principle is feasible, though a doubt there would be much market for such an item.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), June 05, 2002.

Soory, I should have said the Compur Summicron could sync up to 1/500 sec (not bad for a 35 mm camera from the 1950s).

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), June 05, 2002.

The answer is simple. Leica is so slow in introducing improvements to their camera's that the function all of you want will probably be incorporated in the M8, to be introduced in 2020. They probably forgot it while designing the m7.

Or maybe they did not incorporate it because it interfered with the traditional Leica philosophy, or because the leica fundamentalists will forgive the company anything (although I read a posting last week from a person who could not forgive the company for making the M6 ttl and 7 two millimeters (!) higher than the previous M 1 - 6 (not 5), in that way breaking with the classical look of the body. and this person was deadserious).

Cheerio, Frank

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Hi Frank,

I think we are on the same line about the lack of innovation in Leica’s M body…

What is even stranger is the fact some people mention the innovative spirit once was a characteristic of Leica (then Leitz) with a leaf shutter lens back in the 1950’s and for the LTM model ! …

So innovation was good in the fifties and no more now ! …

The lack of high speed sync. is certainly a shortcoming of the M7 and non-TTL HSS a simple attempt to rely in fact on an “alien” technology from Metz to give the potential buyer the feeling something has changed. The real cause being the stubborn will of Leica not to delete once and for all the outmoded cloth shutter which precludes both high speed sync and high speed operations above 1/1000th of a second.

One should better remember back in the fifties the average slow film was probably nearer to 25 ISO-ASA than 100. Then 1/50th of a second was generally acceptable for exterior fill-in. By the way, when the M was introduced, this speed was a progress from the sync speed once applied to earlier LTM design (mostly with adaptors) which was if I correctly remember 1/25th of a second. In 1972, when Nikon introduced the F2 the sync speed reached 1/80th of a second and only a few metallic shutters achieved the 1/125th speed, while most SLR’s were still synchronized at 1/60th of a second. So the 1/50th of the M5 was in no way ridiculous.

Today, even the 1/125th of a second sync speed reached both by the Hexar RF and the Bessas is a thing of the past on all high end 35mm SLR’s… 1/250th of a second being the norm.

With a SFRF, naturally destined to available light photography the main use of a flash is probably the fill-in technique for rather refined shots (which are logically in no way the bulk of the logical use of an SFRF). For this shots, relatively slow film (no more than 100 ISO-ASA) are probably the most frequent) so the 1/250th of a second will hardly be a liability in most cases. And, nowadays, with the shutter opening the entire surface of the frame at 1/250th of a second, full TTL operation is possible.

The suggestion to revive a leaf shutter lens to gain only one speed (limit is 1/500th of a second) is sheer non-sense for a 35mm of today. If I remember correctly, 200 series Hasselblad body curtains are only able to give you 1/80th of a second as maximum sync speed (I think it is the record for a focal plan shutter in a medium format), so to use leaf shutter equipped lenses does make sense. For a 35mm camera and focal plan shutters now able to deliver 1/250th of a second it will be a costly and rather odd solution. How the link between the lens and the body could be done but with an external Visoflex like arm?

Point in case: this fast sync shutter will necessitate an all new shutter. Something which seems to be considered an impossible violation of Leica tradition (I hardly understand why, because until the demise of the M5 Leica – then Leitz – has ever introduced state of the art features to their bodies).

Once again, Leica fundamentalists, claiming to be the protectors of Barnack spirit, are only the defenders of the consequences of a 30 year old failure (some have contributed to by deriding the M5 by the way) which precluded Leitz to continue the gradual, respectful of the original concept but appropriate improvements they were used to introduce and not the real tradition of Leica RF cameras.

And again this question: with all the M3, M4, M6 available mint on the second hand market, I hardly understand why (if the lenses are still compatible) these people oppose a true modernization of the M body which will satisfy everyday users and nobody forces them to buy?

Friendly.

François P. WEILL

-- François P. WEILL (frpawe@wanadoo.fr), June 06, 2002.

Francois, as with most of your articles, well written.

My article was written with some sarcasm but was not meant unfriendly or abusive, should anyone think so.

I really liked my M5, that was a wonderful innovative camera, showing shutterspeeds in de viewfinder and which way to turn the aparturering to get correct exposure. It failed because it did not look like the classical M 1 - 4. A pitty, after that it was back to outdated M camera´s like the 4-2 and 4-p. I think, in the m range, the m5 was the last risk Leica ever took. The m4-2 and p are ridiculous since they miss an incorporated lightmeter, just a reproduced 1960´s camera. Maybe acceptable in the 1950's and 60's but certainly not in the 1970's and 1980's.

Yes, what harm would it have done the m7 to change the shutter to a modern shutter, giving a synch. speed of around 1/250th of a second and a topspeed of around 1/4000th of a second. The Hasselblad 200's have a much larger shutter and they make 1/2000th of a second and also have a higher synch. speed. Who cares about the increase of shutternoice by about 1 or 2 decibel? You might hear the differce in a silent room but in the street?

I am afraid that if Leica keeps on hanging to an antique tradition, they will not survive. I wonder how much profit the company could make by producing a camera like the Bessa R2 offering it for a similar price. It would call for some investment from the company but in the end, they would sell so many that any financial problems should be solved.

It is not strange that most people use slr's instead of rangefinders, even with lenses in the range of 28-135 mm (for instance Steve McCurry). Slr's are constantly being innovated. Not that you need all of it's features but the innovations are there. The M3 was an innovative camera for it's time and so was the M5. The M7 is in no way innovative, it is a 1950's camera with outdated 1970's technology. Nikon´s F2 was an excellent camera for it´s time but if it was still the top of the F line with only minor improvements since 1972, no professional would use it, all going to Canon instead.

Leica´s only reason of survival lies in the fact that for years they were the only company producing a 35mm rangefinder. Now there is Contax, Konica, and Voigtlander. The Konica being the closest to Leica. If Konica can improve their camera by giving it the viewfinder quality of the Besse r2, which from what I have heard, is even better than that of leica´s M, and give the same quality Leica has, the outdated Leica will only sell to a few people out of nostalgia, thereby finishing Leica and the only one to blame for it is Leica itself for not being innovative.

Frank

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

To be added to my last line: and of course all the Leica-fundamentalists who stand in the way of developing a modern Leica M.

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Can Leica put the high speed (1/4000 and syncro 1/250) shutter system into the M body?

Yes, they can.

Can Leica use the hinged back door without changing the M body?

Yes, they can.

Why does Leica put these on the M7?

God knows!

-- Clark Tu (clarktu@giga.net.tw), June 06, 2002.

Sorry, it is "Why does not".

-- Clark Tu (clarktu@giga.net.tw), June 06, 2002.

Clark, Leica's saving each for the M8, M9 and M10!

BTW, a vertical, high-speed shutter will probably require a different sized body.

Meanwhile, I'm eagerly awaiting for a higher-mag Bessa R2 (or a finder magnifier for it) to replace my slow-sync, flare-prone M6 0.85 TTL.

-- Andrew (mazurka@rocketmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Well Andrew, if a different sized body is needed, so be it. The M5 was different sized (and formed). Nikon's F5 does in no way resemble the F1 or 2. Yes, they are all slr's but that is about the only thing that (and the bayonet mount) is the same.

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Why no > 1/1000 shutter in a Leica M body? I've heard all the blah, blah about the cloth shutter and it's "advantages" from Leica and the head-in-the-sand proponants. I've heard all the talk from others who say that others (Konica, Contax, Cosina) did it, why not Leica.

I'll bet that the REAL reason that Leica didn't try to fit a vertically-running, high-speed shutter into the Leica M is that it won't fit in the current body without major reengineering. Remember, Leica is a cash-poor company. They probably looked at this option, they'd be unbeliveably stupid not to. But the deployed their scarce resources in the way that best blended their plans and aspirations. So they made a business decision that it was more important to move to AE and bring in a new set of users, while retaining almost all of the benefits of the mechanical body. So what if they piss off those few of us who might want faster shutter speeds.

You can't please everyone.

-- Skip Williams (skipwilliams@pobox.com), June 06, 2002.

Thank you for correcting me.

-- John Collier (jbcollier@shaw.ca), June 06, 2002.

Skip, you can not please everyone indeed. What I am trying to say is that by continuing the way they do now, Leica will be bankrupt in a few years. If it is such a cashpoor company, why not produce a small body like the R2 that will outsell the m7 soon enough. Ofcourse you have to invest in new productionmethods as well. A cheap but good quality body needs cheap but good quality lenses. The fact that slr"s took over the market comes not only from the fact that slr"s are more versatile but also from the fact that a good slr costs a fraction of a leica m even a secondhand m

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Frank, I don't know if Leica can do what you suggest. I hope that they can, but their cost base and standards may be so high that they may be incapable of significantly reducing their costs. Only time will tell. Hassleblad has survived with it's sky-high costs and hand- made cameras, and with lots of Japanese competition. IMO, Leica will probably survive too. They'll do more of these partnerships. Remember, they're part of LVMH now, so they will probably not go completely out of business. IMO, they'd probably retreat to a RF, lens, and sport optics shop (ditching the SLR body business) before they went under.

-- Skip Williams (skipwilliams@pobox.com), June 06, 2002.

Although it may not look like it judging form my articles, I do hope Leica survives.

-- Frank (frank_bunnik@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Hi all,

Leica Camera AG may be a starved of cash, but, believe me LVMH and even other subsidiaries of Leica are not...

So if they really wanted to invest in the future it would be easy for the group to do so.

Like Frank, I don't want to see Leica going out of business but for the present time only because of their lenses.

The argument of poor cash is in fact IMHO void of any sense. This is a marketing question and a pure marketing decision and also for the M7 (when you refer to Erwin Puts M7 test article) because they failed to reach an agreement with Konica. For me the M7 is nothing but a makeshift improvement of the M6 studied in a crash program instead of introducing the real M7 which was probably originally projected to be made with Konica's collaboration.

Leica has for years survived mainly because it was the last and only SFRF available combined with the best 35mm format lenses. Now what remain are the lenses.

The M body, once heart of a system is nowadays nothing more than an advertisment product which probably doesn't produce many profit (if any) at all.

It is designed for nostalgics (I respect them) and snobs (I have far less respect for them).

As a user I'm sure I made the right decision buying an Hexar RF (after submittinfg it to extensive tests). The RF isn't perfect it is not much better than the M7 in fact (the advantages of one compensate for the shortcomings of the other) but the difference is cash related. The only thing which is slightly more difficult to accept with the RF is the low magnification of the viewfinder. Though when accustomed, you can focus perfectly a 135mm f/4 Tele Elmar... Remember the 0.58 M is also unable to focus properly the Noctilux and the 75mm Summilux wide open while it has not even the 135 mm frame...

But the Hexar Rf xcosts less than half the price of an M7...

The 21st century SFRF camera is still tobe produced...

Friendly.

François P. WEILL

-- François P. WEILL (frpawe@wanadoo.fr), June 06, 2002.

In 1968 I started a camera repair business from home incoropated in 1971 now I have 12 staff and have become opinionated but i believe that I have the right. You can have almost any thing that you want today if you are prepaired to pay yes even a 50mm summicron in a leaf shutter to fit a m6/m7 but who needs such with current films and good knowledge of filters. Stop bitching and start puting your energies into picture making. But to those of you that realy need to destroy your dollars my company can supply what you want by building to order a special in our extensive machine shop to make your frivolous dream a reality.

yes we are authorised Leica dealiers check us out www.cameraelectronic.com.au sincerely Ron Frank of west australia a leica used since 1962

-- ron Frank (ronfrank@cameraelectronic.com.au), June 07, 2002.

Ron,

I am building my dream R camera myself. I intend to put the shutter system of the Nikon FM3A into an old R4. Do you have any information for me? Don't try to tell me don't do that. I have been already crazy.

-- Clark Tu (clarktu@giga.net.tw), June 07, 2002.