I've been surfing the net for good prices on Leica R8 and came across Adorama in New York. They emailed me a price of $1619 for a new black body with full USA warranty. When I called them to order it, they said it wasn't in stock but that I should order it and they'll send it to me. When might that be? In a week or two, they said. When I asked why they were so vague, they pressed me to place the order. Then they said I should call Leica and find out when I'd get the camera. Strange conversation -- and I get the idea that their low price is a trap. Anyone have dealings with Adorama or am I just too suspicious?

-- Stephen Michaels (Stephen34@aol.com), June 05, 2002

Answers

adorama is a long-established nyc discount house. you will get the camera (and if you are putting it on plastic, who cares if you don't). as for their curt manner: (a) it's nyc, (b) they get jerked around by bargain hunting customers, and (c) they are probably making $30-$50 on the camera. if you want fawning, expresso, and a salesman who will put the batteries in for you, go elsewhere. i should also mention that adorama does a great job bringing in (or having manufactured) a whole mess of cool camera stuff, including the kobalux lenses for leica. it really is a neat photo store.

-- roger michel (michel@tcn.org), June 05, 2002.

i bought stuff from them and have had no problem. like roger says - the attitude is NYC camera store (not that I like that attitude)

IMO, there are so many LNIB R8 for sale, one can easily be picked up for $1,100-1,200 - that would be the way I would go.

cheers,

-- pat (modlabs@yahoo.com), June 05, 2002.

A second for Adorama. A fine store. I never had a problem with them over the years.

-- Bob Haight (rhaigh5748@aol.com), June 05, 2002.

Contradiction. I ordered an SF-20 that they said was in stock & paid for it. Three later I got an email saying it was backordered. I called, got vague answers, went back & forth for another week w/o hard info & finally cancelled the order. I received several emails off this forum saying this was typical of Adorama.

-- Patrick (pg@patrickgarner.com), June 05, 2002.

If you search the archives you will find at least one thread in the last 8 months or so where a bunch of folks share their experiences with Adorama.

I live and work in NYC, and do not go to them unless I have no other choice. They will dick you around more than any other palce in town, IME. Cambridge Camera is the only place worse than them. Stay away from these folks, unless you don't mind rude service, dishonest salespeople (who might know less than I do about some of the products they supposedly sell); hidden charges, and bait-and-switch.

-- drew (swordfisher@hotmail.com), June 05, 2002.

But the difference between them and a real bait and switch is that you were able to cancel your roder with not too much trouble. Try that with A&M or CCI.

-- Josh Root (rootj@att.net), June 05, 2002.

I too hve had problems with Adorama in the past. My last major purchase form them was a 24 mm leica 2.8 lens. The box was opened and missing the hood. Exchanges were made, but I've never had these problems with B&H. I would still use them but Buyer-be-where!

-- Don M (maldos@cox.net), June 05, 2002.

save your money. i would not buy a R8 new since there are so many good clean used ones on the market. try e-bay or better yet try KEH keh.com they have 5 clean used R8's for sale between $1050 and $1170. i have dealt with them before and their equipment is always as described.

-- greg mason (gmason1661@aol.com), June 05, 2002.

IMO buying an R8 for $1100-1200 with a 60 or 90-day warranty vs. new with 3yr Passport *plus* 2-yr parts/labor warranty (5 yrs total)is insane. One trip to Leica service (no independent shops service them) will set you back minimum $300 and the warranty on the repair lasts only 1 yr, so in a 5 year period there's the possibility to spend a grand on repairs, and given the R8's record, well...

I bought 2 R8's about 6 mo's ago for $1525 each from Rich at Photovillage ($1895-10% Leica Day-$200 rebate+shipping). Not sure if the rebate is still on, but if not it will return again the way the R8's aren't selling. My advice is to e-mail Rich (photovilla@aol.com) and see what he'll do for you.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 05, 2002.

I've dealt with Adorama extensively over the years and have always been very pleased. They've done some things for me that they weren't required to do, such as accept a return item after I stupidly filled out the warranty card and threw away the original packaging. As for the person who was told something was in stock and then it wasn't, that happens everywhere occasionally. Computers aren't yet instantaneously updated every time something leaves the store. Most likely the sales person you dealt with looked at his computer, it was shown as in stock, then before his order could be filled someone else's was filled with the last one. It's unfortunately when that kind of thing happens but it does happen even with honest dealers (of course it's a normal business practice with places like Cambridge, Abe's of Maine, et al).

-- Brian Ellis (bellis60@earthlink.net), June 05, 2002.

B&H's website is updated in real-time and their "out of stock" flag pops up as soon as the inventory drops below a preset level. They do not do back-orders of stocked items (the "buy" button disappears once the item is out o stock), but will special-order an item (requires prepayment)and special-order items are listed as such on their website. If you call them you get the same deal as they use the same database in-store. I have also had good luck with Adorama, but I know enough to ask if the item is in stock. They won't lie if it's out of stock, but they won't tell you if you don't ask, and will happily charge your credit card right away and place the item on backorder. I used to rank Adorama and B&H tied for #1 NYC deep- discounter, with all the rest heaped in the "don't buy zone", but B&H in recent years has made a quantum leap forward on all planes. Including their prices on some items are occasionally higher than the other NYC stores...however as a rule it doesn't pertain to Leica as all Leica USA goods seem to be sold at the same price everywhere, nonwithstanding Leica Days.

-- Jay (infinitydt@aol.com), June 05, 2002.

Why not buy one from Francisco Photo in Hong Kong? Today's price for a new R8 with 5 year guarantee is US$1,052. Grey market, but so what? I bought one and it is perfect, and yes, it does have the 5 year guarantee. If you want Leica dealers in Hong Kong, search the agent's site (Schmidt Photo).

-- wayne murphy (wmurphy@powerup.com.au), June 05, 2002.

Adorama is a first rate mail-order house, period.

I have dealt with Fred Wasser over the past 2.5 years and have no complaints. When a filter was backordered, they sent the in-stock items international priority, as I requested and paid for, and then sent the filter c.10 days later at USPS Int.Priority. Sending the backordered product at a priority rate is more than I can say for most other catalog or mail order houses!

I don't quite understand the rumblings about NYC attitude. I don't care to make idle talk and I don't think that they want to hear it. I do my research, have the price level in mind that I want and call to order. The number that I call is, after all, an Order Line.

-- Reto (redcavereto@hotmail.com), June 05, 2002.

BTW Adorama is an authorized US Leica dealer. As far as I remember, they do not even sell grey Leica. (But I did get some nice grey Nikon there!)

-- Reto (redcavereto@hotmail.com), June 05, 2002.

I've dealt with B&H and Adorama for several years. B&H won't negotiate on prices, but Adorama will. Adorama will give you 10% off list price on any Leica lens, and more than that on an M6TTL. Just tell the sales agent what you want to pay. All with USA Passport warranty.

Recently I've noticed that Adorama doesn't have anything I've ordered in stock. I've had to more than 3 weeks for some orders to be filled. They will tell you up front that the items are on back order, but just the same it's a PITA.

They will always 'authorize' the full amount of the purchace with the credit card company when you place the order, but they don't actually bill the card until the items are shipped. If they have to break up a shipment they bill individual items as they ship, and they eat the extra cost of multiple shippments. Also, they have never given me any grief about returns, even if I just changed my mind.

There is that NYC attitude though...

-- David Geddes (d_geddes@pacbell.net), June 05, 2002.

Adorama's okay, but B&H is better. Also try www.leicagallery.com

-- Douglas Kinnear (douglas.kinnear@colostate.edu), June 05, 2002.

to Wayne Murphy:

I bought an M6 outfit from Francisco in Hong Kong and will regret it as long as I live.

I needed warrantee work and Schmidt would not honour the warrantee in Singapore where I live, because it was bought in a different city, even tho' Schmidt was the distributor for both cities. I will not go thru the whole story again, but suffice to say because of that experience, I traded the Leica kit for a Konica Hexar RF kit and will cherish that decision for a long time.

Unless one lives in the Asian city where the camera was purchased, WATCH OUT. A Chinese friend of mine who is a salesman in a camera store, just yesterday told me (again) to watch out for the Chinese salesmen, as they will literally laugh at you (and me-westerners, or White Devils) as soon as you go out the door. The price you paid is referred to by them as " the laughing price".

Joy Kin

-- RICHARD ILOMAKI (richard.ilomaki@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

Stephen

Adorama are definitely a bit on the "sharp" side and not to be trusted 100% I think. They are wheelers and dealers. If you know this and can be firm they will probably deliver. They are not a place where one exactly enjoys shopping. Mind you B & H are not really that much better when you visit them in person (it depends who you get), but they are less keen to get you to buy something (anything) so do not attempt to pressurize you. But Adorama are often better than B & H on price.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), June 06, 2002.

I've had good luck with Adorama. They have made mistake's, and as others have mentioned, aren't long on the chit-chat.

I purchased a couple of demo leica lenses from them at reasonable prices and excellent quality.

Fred Wasser is a good man. If you can get to know or work with one person you can get a little better service.

-- David Smith (dssmith3@rmci.net), June 06, 2002.

Richard Ilomaki -do you have something against Chinese people for posting that racist comment? Think how stupid it sounds if someone else said "A friend of mine, who is (Caucasian/Native American/Jewish/Indian/Hispanic/Polish/Italian/Afro American, Japanese, Hawaiian,etc) himself told me that (Caucasian/Native American/Jewish/Indian/Hispanic/Polish/Italian/Afro American, Japanese, Hawaiian,etc) people are dishonest salesmen and will laugh at you as soon as you go out the door.".

About your experiences buying Leicas in HK, since you claim to travel and live overseas a lot, shouldn't you have checked the applicability of the warranty outside the territory you bought the item before buying? Does Nikon/Leica/Canon/etc USA or Canada honor warranties for gear bought in other countries?

If you're dissatisfied with working in Asia or interacting with Asians, that's your prerogative but please leave your social problems out of this photography forum.

-- Fred Sun (redsky3@yahoo.com), June 06, 2002.

I don't think Richard meant any offense. I live in Hong Kong and have been screwed over by local camera dealers the same way I have been screwed over by New York dealers and by ebay sellers from three continents. These dealers are there to make money they only relevant color is green. I know all those HK dealers but trust only a few.

-- ray tai (razerx@netvigator.com), June 07, 2002.