NOTE: Mr. Rowlett, please delete previous thread "My Next Lens," it has the wrong title. Thanks.

<< I'd like the 75/2 also. Supposedly it already exists and has for some time. However the DOD won't let Leica release it to the public as it was funded by them to ride only on satellites (the unmanned image taking kind). Hardly seems fair, since we all paid for a piece of them. -- Jerry Pfile >>

I've read more than one reference (on this forum) about the existence of "Military" lenses that have almost perfect quality but that are not available for the civilian market. What's with this? It's not as if I'm going to take satellite pictures of Bin Laden with my M6. Why don't they release such lenses for public consumption? Surely there is a demand for them. Isn't the Cold War over? Just curious. This seems a very old-fashioned thought process by the Military, some bureaucratic BS perpetrated on the public.

-- Vikram (VSingh493@aol.com), May 31, 2002

Answers

There are dozens or hundreds of military/space-program lenses that are out there by major (and obscure) manufacturers.

Keep this in mind.... many of these designs are non-focusing, have odd mounts, are HUGE, are made of very costly stuff in very tiny numbers making the prices in the realm that only governments can pay, are made for alternate environments such as vacuum of space, etc etc etc

If Leica (or any other brand) thought the market was large enough to support profits, they would bring out civilian (read that: common mount, focusing, more affordable, less humongous, etc etc etc) versions.

Steve Gandy has some write ups on military Leitz lenses. The LeicaFAQ has at least one write up on the 90mm Noctilux!

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), May 31, 2002.

Vikram. The lens in question, I believe, is a 75/2.4 "Apo" M lens which dates back to the 1970s. I'm not sure this lens is even up to present day optical standards. I'm not sure why Leica would want to introduce a design that dates back around three decades in a new lens. BTW, there are at least three designs originally for the military that were later used for civilian production by Leica: 1) 75/1.4-M Summilux (NASA), 90/2.8 R (now M also) Elmarit, and 180/3.4- R Apo. In addition, I'm pretty sure that the same design was used for the 90/1.0 Elcan-M (used by naval reconnaisance} was also used for the 90/1.0 Elcan Picker X-ray camera lens.

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), May 31, 2002.

Here is the 75 f/2 'military' ELCAN - in R mount only. 8^(

There are also a few prototype 75 f/2.4s in M-mount, as Eliot mentions - about 5 were made - Tom Abrahamsom owns one and reviewed it in the LHSA "Viewfinder' magazine - which should show up on their web site in about 2003 sometime.

I don't think these lenses are 'embargoed' by the military, because the few examples that DO exist are being traded on the open market - among collectors, mostly.

Leica has just never marketed them - maybe they've been surpassed by (e.g.) the 90 APO after 25 years, just as the 'originally military' 180 APO f/3.4 was surpassed by the f/2.8 version.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), June 01, 2002.

Thanks, I now feel comfortable that the best technological lenses are out in the public market.

I still wonder about Area 51 though.

-- Vikram (VSingh493@aol.com), June 01, 2002.

I see the 75/2.0's lens shade is one of those collapsable drinking cups I had as a kid back in the early 60's

-- Charles (cbarcellona@telocity.com), June 01, 2002.

Zeiss also made a 50mm f0.7 lens for NASA for use during the Apollo program. Kubrick used it for the interior candle-lit casino scenes in his (otherwise dead-boring) film "Barry Lindon".

More info & links in the FAQ Noctilux topic at: nemeng.com/ leica/040b.shtml

-- Andrew Nemeth (azn@nemeng.com), June 01, 2002.

There are 'military' lenses available on the used market. The latest pair that I have seen (the ad, not the lenses) are BUNDESWEHR 4.0 / 135mm Elm. each in 'B' condition at c.€1200.

I do not know anything further regarding these lenses except that they are selling at approx. €300 more than non-Bundeswehr. (btw Bundeswehr is the German army.)

-- Reto (redcavereto@hotmail.com), June 01, 2002.

Speaking of 1)High-Res lenses, 2)Embargoed technology and 3) Area 51:

Kirtland AFB, New Mexico:

How many F-117A Stealth fighters are in this picture? Zoom in to the 1 meter resolution scale if it doesn't come up that way automatically.

-- Andy Piper (apidens@denver.infi.net), June 01, 2002.

Reto. The 135/4.0 Bundeswehr is not strictly a "military" lens; it is a regular production 135/4.0 M lens with a Bundeswehr engraving that was provided to the German military. It was not specially designed to meet military requirements.

Vikram. Not only are military lenses not necessarily better than regular production items, but sometimes they are not even as good. For example, the 50/2.0 Elcan-M lens provided with the KE-7A (US military version of black Canadian M4) is a 4-element design that is not as good as the then current 6-element 50/2.0 Summicron (Wetzlar version, 11817). The story is the Army specifications did not require a lens as good as the Summicron, so they saved money by contracting for the less expensive 50/2.0 Elcan (which was never sold commercially).

-- Eliot (erosen@lij.edu), June 02, 2002.

Andrew

In my opinion Barry Lyndon is not a dead boring film. It has a lot of very positive attributes - a very strong and involving story line, superb, some would say unrivalled, attention to period detail and excellently photographed - including the candle-lit interiors. Ryan O'Neal is perhaps not one's first choice of leading character in this British story, but he is certainly not so terrible that it ruins the film. In my opinion anyone who appreciates historical films this is about as good as they get.

-- Robin Smith (smith_robin@hotmail.com), June 04, 2002.