Dog Evolution...

greenspun.com : LUSENET : Beyond the Sidewalks : One Thread

Ok, I'm a little bit behind but I was reading the January National Geographic's cover article about wolves and the evolution of dogs. I also read an online article about gene mapping which has been done to discover more about the domestic dog and it's evolution from the wolf. One of the prevalent theories up until recently has been that prehistoric man had captured wolf pups and raised them. But the newer theory is that a certain part of the wolf population found it easier to eat from human refuse dumps and developed ways to please humans in order to eat around them with more ease. In the online article they talked about dogs being big opportunists. And it works with humans because we as a species are very apt to label just about anything with human qualites from dogs to the weather. So their efforts to learn what pleases us is re enforced by our approval and so they do more to please us to be able to eat with us and have life easier. Which has really worked out for them considering how many domesticated dogs there are in the world compared to wild wolves in the world. It hasn't worked out so well for the portion of the wolves who didn't care to live with us. So does this mean my dog doesn't really love me? :)

I also found it very interesting that with all the different breeds of dogs that at the molecular level not much has changed at all. The DNA makeup of dogs and wolves is almost identical. Although psychologically they are very different. The different breeds before the 1800s developed more because of environment (long hair vs. shorthair etc.) than human intervention (breeding). The skeleton of the wolf has been manipulated through evolution without losing a single bone. Much of a dog's variation is due to genes which affect the timing of it's development as a fetus and a puppy. The heads of puppies are not just smaller but have different proportions than the heads of adult dogs. The skull of a bulldog with its pushed in upper face and outward jutting jaw is the result of nose growth that begins late and then proceeds slowly. The rest of it's skull forms to fit the short nose. In contrast the borzoi has a long and slender snout because it's nose starts growing early-in the womb. They have graphs in the NG article showing the skeletons of the gray wolf, the great dane, the dachshund, and the pomeranian. It's amazing that the bones look exactly the same except for being different sizes.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

Answers

Wasn't that a great article, Denise? I just love National Geographic. The girls and I still always try to read at least one article a month together from it.

I know what you mean about wondering about our doggies' motivation for all their attention. In fact, all our dogs have always velcroed themselves to me, sometimes to my great annoyance actually, and I honestly think its because I feed them. Nothing else explains it. I dont give them more attention than the others around here, in fact I think Ali is the real dog crazy one. But they hang around ME. The one with the food! So do I think they love me; naw, I think most critters are motivated mostly by their appetites.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002


I need to look up that article. Sounds very interesting. Something to look at is the "short term evolution" of just the last 40 years. Canine systems can no longer tolerate rotten flesh and many species have developed allergies similar to humans. Vets now advise proper preperation of food scraps for canines due to the mutated immune systems. This is why I would never consider the "Barf" diet for domesticated animals. Their systems are no longer tolerant.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

I hadn't heard that before Jay. I switched my dog to the BARF diet hoping to give her something better. You did mention rotten meat and that is not part of it. I give first rate chicken wings which are fresh and were meant for people among other things. My dog really, really loves me now! But I think she is really doing well. Her weight is good and I've never seen her with a healthier coat. Her breath is good too. If it hadn't worked out, then I would have switched her back to dog food. I'm glad I tried it! It worked out for us.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

I have only skimmed the article, while waiting at the chiropractor. NG has some of it online (of course, not the entire thing!) at link

Part of the modern dog's "allergies" is due to the chemical overload in our environment, including in our food. It's a real challenge trying to find out what is causing allergic symptoms! I let my dog have a beef shank bone, raw, every ten days or so. Big enough so that she cannot swallow it and choke on it. Her teeth were getting brown with tartar before that, despite the CET Chews and toothbrushing. Now she has white fangs again!

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002


That's odd, Jay. I've been feeding my dogs with the BARF diet for years, and they thrive on it! In fact, the only times I've had allergy problems in my dogs is when I've gotten lazy and gone back to 'dog food.'

In my opinion, the biggest reason so many domestic canines have so many digestive and allergy problems today is because they are fed junk food from day one. I've had several different breeds of dogs, little and large, and on the farm they often ate of 'rotten flesh', and we never had problem one with their health.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002



Many people feed the BARF diet and swear by it. We took 4 pups from the same litter and two were fed the barf diet and two were fed cooked meat and vegetables and calcium and vitamins. The barf dogs lived 4 and 6 years, the prepared diet dogs are still alive and in excellent health at 12 years. The barf diet dogs both died of parasitic induced infections. My friend had sworn by bones and raw flesh feed for 30 years prior to this and since seeing the success of the non barf litter mates has switched his entire kennel to prepared ration.

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002

That was such a great article, Denise! My MIL gives me a subscription to Nat. Geographic every January for my b'day and I love it!!

The last two dogs we had were fed a "semi" BARF diet (supplemented with Blue Seal dry food) and did very well. We definitely want another dog, but we're still kicking around what breed of dog to get ( I'm leaning towards a German Shephard but Harry wants a Pug or a Pomeranian). No matter what breed I'm sure the BARF diet will be a big facter in feeding!!

-- Anonymous, May 31, 2002


I love the cover picture for that article. That wolf is such a beautiful animal. I watched a PBS show or maybe it was science channel, it could have even been TLC about 2 wolf packs introduced into Yellowstone Park. They definitely have their niche in nature. The elk population had gotten out of control in Yellowstone because the coyotes weren't large enough to apprehend them. The coyotes were also getting out of hand. I am always ever amazed at the checks and balances of nature. If you ever happen to run into that show,I highly recommend it.

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

Oh Marcia, Get a Boxer. then you can have a big dog, like a shepard and a pushed in face, like a pug. And they really are nice dogs. I'm allergic to them or I would have had one from the start.

As most of you know, I work in a pet store and I've seen alot of people with allergic dogs. I believe the idea of chemical overload, too but cannot get other people to see it (even with children) We have a new dog food made out of Duck and Potato for allergies that seems to work fine but it is more expensive so...

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002


As I already mentioned, I too think that chemicals have a lot to answer for. However, I should mention that my WHITE German Shepherd has had problems with sensitivities to food. I haven't yet found the right combo of foods for her (does well for awhile, then back comes the diarrhea), but duck and potato were NOT GOOD for her, nor venison either! {sigh} I do think her breeding has something to do with it. Although I can't be absolutely sure, since she was a stray, but everyone who has seen her and knows the breed says they don't see anything else in her. So I think she's a pure bred, and White GSD come from a very small gene pool. Fortunately, she has an extremely happy disposition, which goes a long way.

Currently, she is being treated for some wretched obscure parasite that didn't show up until they tried direct fecal sampling. I have my fingers crossed that that is the cause of her problems! She certainly is willing to EAT most any garbage. She keeps picking things out of the grass. I think she's eating WORMS! Always too fast for me to stop her, of course. She seems to smell them out. Maybe I should try her out as a truffle hound. Now where would I find some truffles to test her . . . ;-)

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002



Well, if dogs changed by wanting to hang out with us to get our food, what in the world are cats doing living with us? Are they really even living with us? 8-)

I just found out that dogs don't have clavicles. When I asked my boss why, he said that dogs don't need to shrug! When I asked him why cats have 'em, he said that cats shrug all the time!

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002


Wow that's fascinating, Jay. Could you give us some more details of this experiment? What kind of parasitic infection? What was the source of their food?

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

Dee..I don't know about a boxer. My neice has one and he (it!) gets so over active and bored sometimes that he pushes rocks...let me rephrase that...BOULDERS around the yard right through flower and vegetable gardens!! He was a shelter dog so maybe he had a bad "childhood"?? We're going to think a long time before we decide on a breed!!! I used to show German Shephards, Collies and Alaskan Malamutes so we're leaning heavily toward one of those again....but we really like little lapdogs, too! A sign of getting OLD I guess :-)!!

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

Marcia, what about a (well-bred) Sheltie? They're like little Collies. If you want a big dog personality in a small, lap-sized body, get a terrier! Like a Cairn or a Westie!

-- Anonymous, June 01, 2002

Moderation questions? read the FAQ